The New Atheist Crusaders and their quest for the Unholy Grail
Offline Hey all. It's been a while since I've been on. I appologise, I've been busy.
The title of this forum is the title of a book I just finished reading. It's a catchy title, so I figured it'd be a good way to grab someone's attention on here. The book is written by Becky Garrison.
If her name doesn't sound familiar, that's fine, it shouldn't. So why am I wasting your time telling you about this book? Well, I'm glad you asked. This is a book written by a True Christian. HUH? For all of you who have discussed with me in the past, you understand what I'm talking about and for those of you who haven't you can research my blogs. Caposkia is my name.
Anyway, It's written from the viewpoint of how a true Christian feels about of course the atheists in the world today, but more importantly for you, how she feels about Christians in the world.
This is for all of you arguing with me about how Christians have to be black and white. How you have to follow a religion and there's nothing outside of religion etc. She touches on all of this. I truly think you'll enjoy reading this book and I would like to hear from those of you who have read it if anyone. If not, I"ll wait till someone finishes it. It's not a very long book.
When I first came onto this site, I wanted to discuss directly with those who were involved in the infamous television debate that RRS was involved in about the existence of God with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. They didn't have time and the other non-believers I came across were too opinionated to involve themselves in a conversation that made any progress. Instead I got into other debates which for the most part were a lot of fun, but I digress.
Becky mentions this debate as well in her book at the end. This is for all of you on here I've talked to who would not believe me or had other personal issues with the fact that my opinion didn't flow with their idea of a Christian. I will breifly say that I hold her viewpoint when she says that if she was at that debate, she would have "crawled out of that church in shame. "
Simply put, we both agree that both sides put forth deplorable excuses for their side and did not defend their side succesfully. I know I know, many of you will disagree and say that RRS did disprove the existance of God in that debate, but enough with the opinions, I'm saying the other side did just as good of a job proving God. This debate is a poor excuse to not follow Christ and this book talks about those types of Christians.
This book should clarify many misunderstandings of how True Christians are and I hope bring light to a new understanding of our following.
It is written differently than most books, but is an informational peice and uses a lot of researched information. It does focus on the "New Atheists" and is not a book preaching to the masses. As said, it is from the point of view of a True Christian.
enjoy, let me know your thoughts. I would also request, please be respectful in your responses. I'm here to have mature discussions with people.
- Login to post comments
Offline So it's a church where you can pretty much worship whatever you want to as long as you don't offend. I mean if you don't use "humanly imposed rules, rituals and regulations", how can you use any part of the Bible? If you don't use the Bible, how can you claim to be "Christ-centered, based on God's amazing grace"?
After all, religion by its nature is legalistic.
did I say all that?
First of all, what is a church to you?
BTW, The Gosple is grace, not Law.
- Login to post comments
Offline What cappy wont admit is that laws and morality are not a result of a disimbodied being, but of the evolution of the species. It frightens the theist that the super natural explination is not required to explain human behavior and that is merely a matter of their own ego refusing to let go of absurdity.
you should review this forum and see how repetitive you get. Are you trying to convince people of this? I think they understood the first few times.
- Login to post comments
Offline
I am not as gullible as you. I have a personal definition of sceintific method as much as I have a personal definition of miosis or gravity.
...and yet you continuously avoid the question just like you've avoided presenting a reliable source for your claims.
I'm asking you for your personal definition (which I cannot look up) because I've met many people who have definitions of popular understandings that tend to skew off the main definition according to their preference. I just want to make sure you and I are on the same page. I think we can agree I've been making a viable effort in doing so. Balls in your court.
- Login to post comments
Offline Brian37 wrote:
HERE ARE THE FACTS YOU DONT WANT TO FACE!
It is all in your head, just like it is all in the head of a Muslim who truely thinks Allah is real, and just like the ancient Egyptians truely believed that a giant ball of gas cared about them.
It is absurd to claim that a disimbodied entity by any name exists and even more absurd to claim that it can, even if it choses not too, control every atom in the univers and direct it's corse to it's whim.
Your fantacy is merely another in human history.
such confidence. Again, what source have you? or please define for me the scientific method be it that the previous conversation on it in this forum didn't clarify. This way we might actually make progress in this forum.
Let's put some "logic" into perspective for a moment btw. Yea, i know, it's a stretch but let's try it.
If my God is real and therefore is almighty and all powerful. He is our father who created us and is even aware when the most insignificant organism dies, why would he take the time to make you fart a car so that you can be convinced he's real? He didn't waste his time proving himself to all those who made similar requests in the Bible, He wouldnt' treat you any different?
You keep asking me what sources I have.
But what your dense cheerleading scull cant seem to fathom is science.
If you use a yardstick to mesure the area in your room, YOU ARE USING SCINECE. You don't need to make up stories about a yardstick. You can use the same yardstick anywhere and it will give you the same results without prayer or incantations or meditation. Much like a themometer in a dead body can be used to calculate how long a body has been dead.
It is not confidence anymore than saying I will take a shit tommorow is. I am confident that Santa and Thor and Allah are fiction, but not out of arrogence, but because the claims the people make DONT match up to reality.
You merely like what you believe and because of your ego you cant get it into your head that it is just that, all in your head.
If you chose to use an unscientific mythological book written by goat hearders, that is up to you. But don't ask me to substitute a telliscope for superstition to determine the moon's orbits or ocean tides because you like the idea of a being with no body magically manipulating such things.
I am special to myself and to the people who know me, but to the trillions apon googles of atoms in the universe, I am not even a blip. My life is not a result of magic anymore than Thor was a thinking being wanting to strike me down with lightning for not kissing his ass.
You suffer from the delusion that non-human items have human qualities because the fear of your own mortality wont allow you to accept that you are. If you have a hero to pull you off the train tracks you can foil the mustach villian(mortality). Your problem is that mortality is not a villian, but an uncongnative reality of all biological life from the amoeba to the human.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
- Login to post comments
We must work and strive at honesty. We must distinguish between what we want to believe and our honest truest intuitions. Let's not allow our imagination, fear and wishes to be our inner demon enemy. Let's make often the practice of clearing our minds of all assumptions and restarting at zero, that place where all our knowledge of ourselves and things is the eternal law of 'SUM ONE' ~ i god as you
Millions? And they all believe exactly like you without deviation?
That's the only way I canever see millions of "True Christians". That, or your cloning machine is working overtime.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I agree, but it is not I with tunnel vision. It is you mistaking your sense of awe as being a reality when it is your own brain fucking you because of nonsense ideas you bought from others.
The reality is that the brain is capable of believing things that are not true. The overlap that humanity has to make sense of reality is not religion, not even personal guesses(personal deities).
Reality is not yours or mine or utopian, it is not based on ancient hocus pocus written down by goat herders anymore than it is written by modern day pantheists. It is not Superman, or Kabbalah or Vishnu or Allah or tarrot cards or Jesus.
Reality is skewed by all of us, but best gauged by the overlap of scientific method which is quality control. I don't know of of any personal whim of a deity by any label in history or organized religion that has the same quality control scientific method can have.
Spirits have no proof for existence than if I claimed that I could fart a full sized Lamborginni out of my ass.
But, if you can get your "spirit" or "god" or "God" or "gods" to fart one out of my ass right now, I would be convinced. Somehow though I think holding my breath waiting for such would cause my needless death.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
as far as the beliefs I've expressed on here, yes. I guess if you want to get technical and petty, then no. I've had many arguements with "True Christians" about who is going to win the world series this year. Some Christians support Bush, whereas I don't.
What is clear is how we treat others and view others in the world. Our actions will always speak louder than our words.
With all pettyness aside, there is a clear understanding of our following and how we should be as people in this life. It's confusing and extremely frustrating to see so many out there claiming to follow Christ and being hypocritical about His teachings.
The many false understandings and teachings out there is why many of us followers have been working so hard to correct the now stereotypical understanding of a Christian. http://www.ptm.org is a great example of that. If you look through the Q and A section of the site, you'll notice that we dont' know everything and there are a lot of questions about the not-so-clear information, but you'll also notice that what is clear is the teachings of Jesus Christ and how to respond in any situation.
who did you buy yours from?
ok, decent overview of reality.
I guess seeing as scientific method has been discussed already in this forum I should ask; what are you considering the quality control that is scientific method? Just to clarify. Basically, yes, I'm looking for your personal definition of the scientific method so we can move on. It seems this is a road block right now.
ah ok, forget scientific method, this dude wants to fart out a car! Careful when you get to the spoiler, that might hurt a little.
i guess I should ask; is it true that you'd really need to fart a car out your butt in order to believe in God or even a spiritual world? If so, then I think we're done here. Many people in the Bible saw miracles from Jesus and yet still did not believe. What makes you different from them? and don't say it's because you're a real person 'cause I might have to fart a church out my butt if you do.
Scientific method is not a roadblock, YOU are making it a roadblock by trying to make absurdity fit it.
If your deity is all powerfull, it could turn you into a goat right now, or make Richard Simmons strieght. So yea, farting a full sized lamborgini out of my ass would be quite convincing. But, since your fictional god doesnt exist, Richard Simmons will remain happly gay.
If I wrote a book right now, and mentioned Washington DC, a real place, and also claimed that I had 100 billion dollars, and that 500 people saw my bank statement, but had no outside proof other than what I wrote in my book, would you buy it?
"Miracles" is an old motif, older than Christianity and the Hebrews, the people that wrote the bible believed in superstitious crap so they exagerated the events to appeal to the emotions of the readers. It is a common literary tactic, inside and outside religious literature.
If people before even the Hebrews are capable of making up stories and believing them as fact, how then, did your claim magically become immune to mundane human behavior?
So if you are going to pull the same tired crap of, "God cant do what is outside his nature" we have seen that garbage before. If he can but wont, then I am an atheist for a reason and you are futily trying to alter the course of god's plan.
Putting a limit on an all powerfull being negates using the word "all". So if you are going to say your god is all powerfull, then tell the jackass to pull a Lamborginni out of my ass. Put up or shut up. I am not a toy, or property or an experiment. And if one were to go by your claim, which I don't. But for the sake of arugement, it would not be worthy of my phrase, much less worship.
HERE ARE THE FACTS YOU DONT WANT TO FACE!
It is all in your head, just like it is all in the head of a Muslim who truely thinks Allah is real, and just like the ancient Egyptians truely believed that a giant ball of gas cared about them.
It is absurd to claim that a disimbodied entity by any name exists and even more absurd to claim that it can, even if it choses not too, control every atom in the univers and direct it's corse to it's whim.
Your fantacy is merely another in human history.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
So it's a church where you can pretty much worship whatever you want to as long as you don't offend. I mean if you don't use "humanly imposed rules, rituals and regulations", how can you use any part of the Bible? If you don't use the Bible, how can you claim to be "Christ-centered, based on God's amazing grace"?
After all, religion by its nature is legalistic.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
What cappy wont admit is that laws and morality are not a result of a disimbodied being, but of the evolution of the species. It frightens the theist that the super natural explination is not required to explain human behavior and that is merely a matter of their own ego refusing to let go of absurdity.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I have not forgotten about you. I have taken the time to check out some of your videos, however, I've for some reason been having trouble playing them. That's why I haven't watched them all yet.
From the bits and few that I have watched, I do wonder if much of the topics haven't been covered in the science vs. religion forum.
One video in particular that I just got finished watching was the "intelligent design vs. evolution debate". I absolutely remember going over the idea that there is lack of evidence for a darwinistic evolution to take place be it a transformation from one species to another. I'm not sure who was suppose to be defending the intelligent design side, but I think the guy who brought out the elephant chart made a better arguement for the evolution I believe in than I've heard yet.
Just the sheer mathematics are mind boggling as to the odds of such transitions to have taken place let alone the numerous amount of steps involved for such elaborate transitions to have happened. I'm sure you'll see the discussions in the forum science vs. religion. (I'd put a link, but I don't know how on here yet)
Check out that other forum. If something was not covered or clarified, specify to which video you presented that would be relevent and I will focus on that.
I am not as gullible as you. I have a personal definition of sceintific method as much as I have a personal definition of miosis or gravity. You are just as capable of looking up the medical definition of rigor mortis as I am. You refuse to admit that you have nothing but a gap argument. I can't help you out of that delusion unless you want help.
If both you and I look under a microscope at human sperm, the difference between you and I is that you falsely assume a grand design when the reality is evolution which is uncognitive and uncaring to either your whims or mine.
The watchmaker argument is old hat and bullshit.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
such confidence. Again, what source have you? or please define for me the scientific method be it that the previous conversation on it in this forum didn't clarify. This way we might actually make progress in this forum.
Let's put some "logic" into perspective for a moment btw. Yea, i know, it's a stretch but let's try it.
If my God is real and therefore is almighty and all powerful. He is our father who created us and is even aware when the most insignificant organism dies, why would he take the time to make you fart a car so that you can be convinced he's real? He didn't waste his time proving himself to all those who made similar requests in the Bible, He wouldnt' treat you any different?