Info Help!
Hey guys, I was listening to one of the RRS shows awhile back with Brian talking with a young girl who had got caught up with drugs, lost her child and been greatly discriminated against by her church (big surprise huh). As best I can remember Brian talked to her about a system that compared Jesus, Moses, Zues and other mythical beings. With the system he distributed points in which all of these beings shared similar attributes showing that they all were of the same archetype. If anyone knows where I can find this system whether its in the forums or a website or book please let me know so I can check it out. Thanks!
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It's in the God Who Wasn't There movie.
Thanks so much Matt for the quick response I'll definitely check it out!!
Here ya go Chade...
Lord Raglan in his book The Hero/A Study in Tradition, Myth, and Drama, first published in 1936 by Methuen & Co., Ltd.
In the chapter ?The Hero,? Fitzroy Richard Somerset 4th Baron Raglan (whose great-grandfather invented the raglan sleeve) lists 22 common events in the myths and lives of well-known folk heroes of tradition, as follows:
(1) The hero?s mother is a royal virgin;
(2) His father is a king, and
(3) Often a near relative of his mother, but
(4) The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
(5) He is also reputed to be the son of a god.
(6) At birth an attempt is made to kill the hero, usually by his father or his maternal grand-father, but
(7) He is spirited away, and
8- He is raised by foster parents in a faraway country.
(9) We are told nothing about the hero?s child-hood, but
(10) On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
(11) After a victory over the king and/or a giant, a dragon, or a wild beast,
(12) The hero marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor, and
(13) He becomes king.
(14) For a time the hero reigns uneventfully, and
(15) Prescribes laws, but
(16) Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
(17) He is driven from the throne and the city, after which
(18) He meets with a mysterious death,
(19) Often at the top of a hill.
(20) The hero?s children, if any, do not succeed him.
(21) The hero?s body is not buried, but nevertheless
(22) He has one or more holy sepulchres.
Lord Raglan then goes on to apply the folk-hero pattern to a number of literary heroes and identifies the number of matches with each one, as follows:
Apollo: the son of Zeus, who was almost killed at birth and who is one of the most important Olympian gods of Greek mythology (11 points).
King Arthur: popular medieval legend and subject of modern-day Broadway musicals and films, who was raised in a distant land, won a magical victory, died by a conspiracy against him, was not buried, but has a holy sepulchre (19 points).
Asclepius: legendary Greek physician, son of Apollo and god of medicine, who was nearly killed at birth, his burial place was unknown, but who had a number of holy sepulchres (12 points).
Bellerophone?a hero in Greek mythology, who killed the monster Chimera with the help of the winged horse Pegasus, went into exile, and attempted an ascent to the sky (16 points).
Dionysus: the god of fertility and wine in Greek mythology and later considered a patron of the arts, who was almost killed at birth, went into exile, ascended to Olympus, and had no burial place, but numerous shrines and temples (19 points).
Elijah: Hebrew prophet in the reign of King Ahab and an outstanding figure in the Old Testament, whose body was not buried, but who had a holy sepulchre (9 points).
Hercules: most popular of the Greek heroes, who was famous for his strength and courage, who was reputed to be the son of Zeus, and whose body disappeared after his death (17 points).
Jason: one of the greatest heroes of Greek mythology, who assembled the Argonauts, searched for the Golden Fleece, and after his death was worshiped at shrines (15points).
Joseph?the favored son of Jacob and Rachel in the Bible, who was raised in Egypt and wore the coat of many colors (12 points).
Llew Llawgyffes: a Celtic hero, whose mother was a royal virgin, who won magical victories with his father?s help, and who flew off in the form of an eagle after his death (17 points).
Moses: the Hebrew lawgiver and the prototype of the Biblical prophets, who was almost killed at birth, gained a series of magical victories over Pharaoh, and who disappeared mysteriously from the top of a mountain (20 points).
Nyikang: the cult-hero of the Shiluk tribe of the Upper Nile in Africa, who disappeared mysteriously, was not buried, and had a number of holy sepulchres (14 points).
Oedipus: the hero in Greek mythology who solved the riddle of the Sphinx, married his own mother, was driven into exile, and also became known for the Oedipus Complex (19 points).
Pelops: a hero in Greek mythology, who was murdered by his father, served at a banquet for the gods, brought back to life, given an ivory shoulder to replace the one eaten by Demeter, and for whom Peloponnesus was named (13 points).
Perseus: a hero in Greek mythology, who was the son of Zeus, set afloat in a chest as a child, and aided by the gods in killing Medusa (18 points).
Robin Hood: the legendary 12th-century English hero who robbed from the rich, lived in Sherwood Forest with his band of outlaws, and helped the poor (13 points).
Romulus: the founder of Rome in Roman legend along with his twin brother Remus, whom Romulus killed after a quarrel (18 points).
Siegfried: also known as Sigurd, a folk hero of early and medieval Germanic mythology in the Volsungasaga and the Niebelungen, who became a ruler, but was killed after a plot against him (11 points).
Theseus: an Athenian hero in Greek mythology, who killed the Minotaur, instituted several reforms, and was rescued by Hercules after he was imprisoned in Hades (20 points).
Watu Gunung: a Javanese folk hero, whose life bears a striking resemblance to the Oedipus myth and who also goes to heaven (18 points).
Zeus: the supreme god of Greek mythology, who, after lots were cast to divide the universe and after the underworld went to Hades, ruled from Mount Olympus; was the symbol of power, rule, and law; and was the rewarder of good and the punisher of evil (15 points).
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I figure 13 points for Jesus.
Actually, I'd think that Jesus meets every single one of those, especially if you take into account the entirety of the New Testament and not just the Gospels. In the film, Alan Dundes only counts number 8, number 11 and number 12 out (see Sapient's list above for a full description of each), but I'd contend that Jesus was definitely raised in a foreign country by at least one foster parent (Mary and Joseph raised Jesus in Egypt to hide him from Herod; Joseph wasn't his biological father), that he did defeat a dragon/monster/wild beast (Satan is variously described as a Great Red Dragon, a serpent and a roaring lion, and the sacrifice on the Cross was supposed to have destroyed Satan's dominion over those who accepted the sacrifice) and finally, that he will in the future, marry a princess of sorts (Revelation speaks of the Christian Church as the "Bride of Christ", who after the Rapture, will be joined to the Bridegroom at the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb".
Surprised Dundes missed those, to tell you the truth.
"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell
Appreciate it so much Brian this is very interesting stuff!
No problem.
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