John McCain's 'outrageous temper'?
Posted on: October 16, 2008 - 1:35am
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John McCain's 'outrageous temper'?
...Alright; I pretty sure most folks on here know that I'm not exactly a John McCain fan as of late, but I really still quirk my eyebrow at the allegations that McCain has an explosive temper (and the even more extreme allegations that he beat his spouse, Cindy). I haven't seen any strong evidence supporting either charge.
Does anyone know of good evidence for either of these charges? Or are they just part of the general misinformation that tends to get spread about candidates?
Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
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I don't know if he beat his wife or not, but he's been pretty well-known for his temper in the past. I think he's chilled out quite a bit as of late though.
Bah... a little anger never hurt anyone...
Oh wait...
Yin Yang, good anger, bad anger .... I am the judge , I am god, just as you.
Come on all you have to do to avoid being beat by McCain is stand on a chair. Given that a) he's a short arse and b) he can't lift his arms higher than his shoulders; he simply wouldn't be able to reach.
Atheist Books
Kevin,
Have you read the Rolling Stone article on McCain? It's the first explanation I've read that makes sense of the McCain I thought I knew in 2000 (the one for whom I would've voted, had the other candidates been bad) and the McCain I've seen recently, the one that is willing to run a 100% negative campaign, and makes faces during the debates.
But I agree with Jacob. There's not much of a way he could beat up Cindy, what with his limited arm movement and whatnot. He couldn't get much of a swing in. So if he hit her, it's because she stood still and waited for him, and leaned into the punch.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Isn't she also a lot younger than him?
Searched youtube for "senate mccain angry"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlAJ5hkAC4 Whee!
McCain is a trained killer sheeple non maverick, a War Pig loose cannon imperialist patriot, and not a war hero, he just got caught, he had bad luck. McCain is a dangerous egomaniac greedy dumb fuck.
Black Sabbath-War Pigs (set to political footage)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GRR_n_yQGA
Atheism Books.
Well, he was an aircraft pilot, not a green beret. And apparently not a very good one from what I've heard.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
I read the article; no offense, Nigel, but I don't find the account it gives to be credible. For starters, the few numbers it provides are mostly incorrect, suggesting that they pulled data right out of their ass (McCain graduated from a class of roughly 500 students, I believe? Certainly not 900. And he did graduate fifth from the bottom, but not, by the accounts given from his instructors, because he was an incompetent pilot. He apparently was a non-conformist). It uses ad hominems to attack McCain's character without actually providing arguments (Premise: McCain drank and gambled. Conclusion: ???), trying to impress upon the reader that his academics were negatively impacted by his behavior without actually providing data or testimony.
They make assertions that are plainly untrue ('Any other pilot would've had their wings taken away'? This is similar to suggesting that writing-off three vehicles would get your driver's license taken away. There is zero evidence backing their implication that John flew while drinking (well, none they provide), while data related to the incidents all suggest that McCain made a relatively simple and common mistake in all three instances: He flew his plane too low (I find the low-blows distasteful, too: mentioning the friendly fire incident and McCain's splash in the war in the same context is dishonest. McCain had zero control over the former incident and every single report I've ever read on the latter suggest that John was shot down while refraining from making defensive maneuvers so he didn't break-off a bombing run. That certainly doesn't count as 'pilot incompetency' in my books).
The opening conversation is also a cheap shot. McCain was not married at the time, and frankly, I think most people in McCain's position would've said something similar (...it also occurs to me that this is clearly designed to appeal to the dogmatic side of people. Rather hippocritical for a magazine that advertises itself as progressive and edgy).
Speaking of conversations, several quotes are posted from John McCain that sound either:
A) Made-up
or
B) Quote-Mined
...And, of course, no citations for them are given. To say that I'm sick and tired of quote-mining and quote misattributation is a gargantuan understatement; how many times have Creationists done this shit to us, again?
They flat-out lie about his P.O.W. time, and then cite anonymous mystery-men P.O.W.s to back themselves up. McCain's injuries are well-documented, and cheapening them as 'average' is insane. Arguing that the treatment 'got better' after Ho Chi Min's death doesn't jibe with documented facts either, and baldly asserting that McCain surrendered intel under their watered-down torture scenario is bullshit.
The logic they attempt to use to discredit McCain's courage in refusing to go home is also fucked-up. Even assuming the mystery men P.O.W. account is accurate... you would rather stay in the Vietnamese prison camp and be physically tortured than be sent home and court-martialed for saying unpatriotic things under coercion? I mean, mayeb if you're a masochist or something.
I hate the new McCain. I really do. But I strongly suspect that his changing personality (and it is far different now than eight years ago. Sorry; I don't buy the left-wing bald libel either) is the result of dementia, perhaps stemming from the onset of Alzheimers disease (Hey, look at that! A hypothesis that can be empirically falsified or confirmed! What a fucking concept!). Look at the man, for crying out loud! He was wandering around the town hall debate floor like he had lost his fucking iPod! He was unable to find the stairs to the small stage he was standing on after a press conference until someone pointed them out to him! He signed Sarah Palin's VP ticket after a 15-minute conversation. OVER THE TELEPHONE! Finally - and most tellingly - he's hesitant about releasing information about his health.
Vote for Obama - but, for fuck's sake, don't just vote for Obama because that's just what the left is supposed to do, and don't do it just because you heard from someone that John McCain is not a good person.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
No offence taken.
To be fair, the RS article did say he was shot down because he completed his mission rather than breaking off in defensive manoeuvres. He graduated 894 out of 899, just like the article said; they didn't just pull those numbers out of their ass. To graduate that poorly, he must've performed poorly academically, not just because he butted heads with his superiors, as he says. And, most other pilots who crash as often as he did would've been grounded.
But, other than that, your analysis is perfectly correct -- there were a lot of non-sequitor ad-hominem statements. I think the article makes an excellent case in spite of that, but that's just me. I've been trying to figure out what happened to the John McCain I thought I knew back in 2000. I doubt that dementia alone can account for it: his support of torture, for instance, can only be accounted for by political posturing. He wasn't simply confused. The same with his active courting of the Religious right. I'm not saying he doesn't suffer from dementia. I'm just saying it doesn't account for his systematic tearing down of his expressed ideals.
I do tend to investigate candidates first, thanks. I have voted for Republican candidates in the past (not for President, as I tend to think the Democrats have put forth better candidates, for the most part; though Kerry was kind of lame). I don't like sports because of the brainless support of one team over another; and I certainly don't play my politics like a sport (which a lot of people seem to do, with their mindless support of Republicans over Democrats, or vise-versa).
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Sorry, Nigel - my last paragraph there wasn't directed at you. It was meant for the digestion of the general audience, who... well, I couldn't put it any better than your sports analogy.
Uh. Are you sure? I get conflicting reports here, and most aviators I've heard from claim that crashes were no big deal in McCain's fly days because aircraft weren't as expensive back then.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
No problems. I was being a bit overly-techy, I reckon.
Uhm... that's a good point. My conclusion was pretty much drawn from my own military experiences while stationed at Ft. Richardson, Alaska, right next to Elmendorf AFB. During my time there, a couple of flyboys lost their wings for damaging an aircraft on landing (at least, to the best of my recollection it was damaged on landing), and they were deemed "negligent." Things might've been different back in the Vietnam era.
So, I retract that statement.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Yep.
Cindy breathes fire.
Think that's all the evidence one needs to beat a spouse, isn't it?
(0:45)
Yeah, life, politics, etc is just a game to many.
While I'm not going to give John the benefit of assuming his every blunder is related to dementia, personally, I was absolutely shocked at how much of his behavior is entirely explainable by it.
http://www.knowledgenetwork.ca/beyondmemory/home.html
Pay particular attention to Dr. Feldman's examples of the differences between benign forgetfulness and malicious forgetfulness, as well as Dr. Rebheru's points regarding dementia as a disease that should be seen as affecting not only memory, but behavior and personality as well. The torture issue is just plain odd, isn't it? John was very clearly opposed to it from the start, and he didn't care that his colleagues condescended him over it... and then, *Boom*, suddenly he's okay with the proposal. ...And then, after that, he's suddenly opposed to it again, denied ever having been for it, and started talking about things like releasing prisoners from Guantanamo.
Yes, it may have to do with political pandering. I just don't think that's the case; it's a consistent symptom with the mountain he's displayed (speech impairment, memory loss, mood swings, personality shifts, etc). Consider: even with Bush, how many times have we ever heard him outright deny making a statement in the past? He contradicts himself and spin-doctors, but outright saying, 'Oh, no - I never said that / did that?' Politicians know that it's not wise to simply outright deny media quotes of themselves like that, yet McCain in recent years does this all of the time.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
...I forgot to mention:
The worst part, I think, is that John is killing himself if I'm correct. He can get treatment (though, admittedly, none that can reverse the disease), he can get assistance to cope with his symptoms, he can extend his appeciable lifespan... but not if he's unwilling to accept a diagnosis.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Ugh. Wow. The few relatives I've had go through dementia must've been mild cases. I thought it was bad at the time, but... wow. I guess I didn't realize the degree to which it could affect people. That's fuckin' scary.
Okay. You've given me another explanation that also fits the facts. Too bad we'll not know until it's too late. (Remember how long it took for them to reveal that Reagan suffered from Alzheimers while he was president.)
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Don't know if you've seen this but I'm wondering if this tongue-jutting might just be part of the disease you speak of. Obviously there is something going on... unless, of course, he's just turning into a snake.
(3:12)