Surely free thinking would include religious belief
Offline The thing that knocks the stuffing out of me is that when I talk to an athiest I get onto the subject on freethinking and I say well if I have chosen to be religous surely by defination I am frree thinking as no one has told me to be, no one has shown to be , no one has badgered me to be so surley II am free thinker. I am sure you will say well you believe in what other people believe that is not true my idea of god is not llike most chruistians I believe him to omniidentity as he will appear to you as you see him, if you see him as a man witrh a beard then he will be, if you see him as a teapot then he will be, if you see him as Xenu then he wil etc, he is a personal god to the individualnot the other way round. I am sure I will be mocked for not habving strong beliefs and I will tolerate them but to be honest I don't care you can hit me with all this logical and reason rubbish all you want let me oput it to you this way I was never told Inever acheive anything by religion, I was never told I was usless by religion and I was never humilated by religion sorry you take your logic and take it someone who take all this stuff seriously it does not wash here.
- Login to post comments
NO YOU FUCKING MORON!!!!! Why don't you read one of the 987,328,987,123,456,839 other threads about this to learn Freethinker is and has been for well over a century a synonym for atheist or agnostic.
[DARTH_JOSH DELETED THE STUPID PICTURE OF THE CAT]
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Relax, I'm a Christian, they gave me this stupid avatar because I would not back down in debate.
You should not scorn reason. It is fulfilling to have a well thought out worldview, and there are religious philosophers who have systematized their ideas. Let me encourage you to look into Van Til. Plantinga is another philosopher -PhD philosophy, actually- who has developed a reasonable case for Christianity that the naturalists simply cannot rebut to this day (though they try). W.L. Craig is okay also.
Good luck.
Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???
A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.
Look, you can define freethinking any way you choose. It's your right. The common usage of the word means "thinking free from dogmatic or faith-based reasoning." That's how we use it here. We like the way it sounds. It's our right.
No, I will say that you need to work on your writing skills. That sentence makes no damn sense.
No, you will be mocked for your complete inability to form coherent sentences.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
No, presup; you were given the troll avatar for being a fraud.
???
This might be a matter of miscommunication. Your interpretation of the word is simply that you think rationally and in a way that is free from any authority or dogma. However, the term "freethinker" is usually synonymous with agnostics and atheist. It might seem kind of offensive, but by that definition, you're not a freethinker.
However, it's also possible that non-theists will claim that you're not a freethinker because you adhere to a set of religious beliefs that you refuse to question.
Omnidentity is stupid.
I've heard of this before.
To declare that your perspective of God is whatever you want it to be is one thing, but to claim that reality bends to your delusions, this is one of the most laughable claims in the history of mankind.
No, you'll be mocked for keeping the belief that Santa Claus exists because children think he exists and for your inability to construct a short sentence without misspelling several words.
All this logical and reason rubbish!?!?!
What the fuck? You fundamentalist retard! Do you realize what you just said? You just stated that you would ignore logic and reason and continue clinging to your ludicrous fantasies just because "you don't care."
Aw, yes, Jesus loves you no matter what.
He would never hurt your feelings like all that "logical and reason rubbish."
Take it somewhere else? What the fuck? This is the Rational Responders forum; it's a haven for secularism and rationality. Why the fuck would we take it somewhere else? You're the uneducated, illiterate moron that's trolling this website.
You don't take logic seriously.................
Wow, religion was created to control people like you.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
It is impressive on how much vitrol, I generated it does shows that people will attak an idea they disagree with. Let me tell you something it's my opinion, you might think my opinion is wrong fair enough but you don't know me and know what I am doing at the moment I am at university. Look I think that religious ideals are a individual thing as I said, I am sure if you di you will see the truth same as me, thats the only way we will know for sure.
What? Oh, I suppose you have some "godsperm" the AMA has confirmed by peer reviewed material beyond "god did it". And I suppose you have AMA peer reviewed material that demonstrates HOW human flesh survives rigior mortis beyond "god did it".
There is no reasonable case for your invisable friend in the sky other than you like believing in having a magical super hero.
Your naked assertion is no different than the ancient Egyptians who believed that the sun was a thinking entity and just as absurd as claims of Thor or Allah or Vishnu.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Atheists are freethinkers except when it's about something that isn't Atheism. How hypocrytical.
I'm an agnostic atheist who thinks you should love your neughbour.
You will not be mocked for not having strong beliefs. You may well be mocked for having the beliefs you do because they're not founded in reality. You will be mocked for calling logical and reason rubbish. You yourself have used (particularly poor) reasing and logic here. You have attempted to present arguments. If logic and reason are rubbish, you should preclude yourself from making use of them and stop breathing for they are integral to living moment to moment.
'Religion' may never have told you that you acheive nothing, that you're useless and it may never have humiliated you. Is that all you meant to say? If that was supposed to be a premise in an argument, you should have gone somewhere with it. I can't say I disagree with your statement, it may well be true, but other than it being a statement it does nothing. What were you trying to get across by mentioning your experience with religion?
In fact, logic does wash here. It doesn't wash, apparently, with you. You came here and posted on this board. The RRS did not come to you (that I know of). If you don't take logic seriously, that is your fault. We aren't going anywhere.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Sorry, not from me, kiddo. I told you in as many words that you can use the word "freethinking" however you want. Then, I told you your writing is atrocious. It is.
Let me tell you something. Your writing is very hard to read because you use lots of run-on sentences. Are you over the age of eleven? If so, you should have studied this in grammar school. How much respect do you want from a group of intellectuals when you haven't made the effort to express yourself clearly? If you sound uneducated, you will most likely be treated as if you are.
Fine. Your opinion is wrong, but you're entitled to it. Have a nice day.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Why is it when theists get their arguments ripped to shreds they resort to the "It was only an experiment" or a projection of their hypocristy onto us?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Yeh, you're probably right. Generally if someone uses sound logic, responds to attempts to debunk arguments with further reasonable argument/evidence, and doesn't "back down" they get the Troll avatar.
I would have one but I'm careful to back down, even when I have sound arguments that can be defended by basic common sense. These guys are real tyrants about that. Clearly that's why you got the Troll avatar, because you're so good at having a debate based on sound evidence and reasonable arguments.
***********
I'm curious to know what definition we're using for "freethinker". I guess it's any person who holds beliefs that are not affiliated with certain conventional dogma? That would be a good definition I suppose, if you didn't like the definition generally attributed to the term.
Generally speaking a freethinker is someone who bases their belief systems based on what they actually know, not what tradition or emotion "tells" us. Basing ideology on traditional ignorance (like religion/spiritualism) passed through the generations, hand-me-down reasoning, would not qualify as freethought.
In retrospect, I wasn't infuriated by our disagreement, but by how ridiculously stupid you are.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russel
Well, of course. I don't respect your opinion.
Definitely.
You attend an university, and you can't grasp basic grammar? What university do you go to? What country is it in?
First of all, this sentence doesn't even make sense. How did you get accepted into an university? Didn't you have to write some application essays? I am truly perplexed.
Second, you're the person on this forum that sees the truth? Everyone else is just lost in our "logical and reason rubbish?" What?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
No we are not hypocritical. If someone said "Allah exists", just because you say, "prove it", and they cant, does that make you a hypocrite?
We are open to whatever you want to show us, but we are being honest when we say that what you have presented so far, is not credible or valid. THAT is not being hypocritical. That is facing you with the truth.
If you convince us that your particular god exists, then we would be intelectually obligated to change our position. How is that hypocritical?
The difference is that YOU start, just like all the other deity claims in human history, from a naked assertion. Freethinking also comes with the responsibility that claims are backed up with prior data, not myth, or superstition or naked assertions.
"God did it" is not evidence, it is a claim, just as "Allah did it" is not evidence, just as "Osirus did it" is not evidence.
A history of claiming something doesnt make it true, otherwise the world would be flat and the sun would actually be a thinking being.
"Freethinking" is a term used by people who are responsible enough to use method properly. "Freethinking" to morons like you who have no clue what it means, think it means "anything goes because I like it".
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Oh, Atheists are such calm and rational people, aren't they?
I'm an agnostic atheist who thinks you should love your neughbour.
One person's example, LoveThyNeighbour, is not something on which to base such a sweeping generalization. Perhaps you should regard the number of other responses to your posts as evidence that many of the atheists here are calm and rational. Of course it is not necessary to be calm to also be rational. Matt has made a point, however, nothing you have posted is new or insightful and you are just plain wrong. Indeed, 'Not this shit again!' and, 'Epic Fail,' are appropriate, if short, responses.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
I always try to be respectful, but it's just extremely difficult when I'm conversing with people like you.
Ironically, you picked the username LoveThyNeighbor, and then you arrogantly stormed in here with your discriminatory blanket statements and meaningless insults. Somehow, you can just maintain the delusion that you are organizing a triumphant crusade against the blasphemous infidels while, in reality, we absolutely decimated every single baseless assertion and non sequitur you have posted. You have no credible response to our arguments; yet, you can still convince yourself into thinking that you are blowing us out of the water. This is more than just a little compartmentalization; this is exactly what Hamby was talking about in another thread, 1984 type logic.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Nope, your arrows of flames are being repelled my walls of Faith and Goodness. Just claiming you've argued better than me is not enough.
I'm an agnostic atheist who thinks you should love your neughbour.
If you're here to preach instead of engage in discussion then I can almost guarantee that you won't be here for long.
The body of mods don't act alone and rarely disagree concerning the type of content that will be tolerated.
As for the responses to the OP, over a month ago I respectfully requested that we take a damned second and look at the number of posts next to the user's name before responding with the stupid fucking cat pictures or whaambulances or any other introductory rudeness. REGARDLESS of into which forum any n00b posts.
If it has been mentioned several times/threads before then tell them so in a decent manner OR direct them to the thread in which you or another responder has addressed the subject. If you don't want to show them how allegedly smart you are, stay the fuck out of the way.
JUST ONCE, I'd like to go back to letting the theists troll out first.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.
built upon a foundation of pomposity and bombast?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
So do we exempt the theist noobs from doing research on the forum and or lurking a bit before they post?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
No. We can inform them about past posts. However, we don't smack them with yesterday's newspaper and rub their faces in it.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.
Gotcha - although I'm not sure that trying to beat those who bully their way on here by doing their homework for them is all that helpful.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
All that I have is anecdotal evidence to the contrary.
Don't get me wrong. If they're here for a week or so and saying the same already refuted excrement I won't bat an eye if you unleash a typed lashing upon their fragile psyches. I doubt any of the other mods would either.
We can move back to the original subject of why faith isn't freethought and where bossman might find the answer explained in terms he's comfortable with.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.
I've heard that in the UK a "rubber" is an eraser. In the US it's a condom. Words are fun.
Oh, and you're using "freethinker" outside of its historical context.
Beyond that, your argument could be reduced to "Everyone has an opinion, so all opinions are equal." Which is the argument of someone without a defensible position; and for whom a victory is snatching a defiant forfeiture from the jaws of defeat.
OK but we've been there and done that. I wonder if the only answer he'd be comfortable with is "I'm sorry bossman. You can define freethought in whatever manner you see fit."
Redefinition is how theism came to be, isn't it? Unexplainable (at that time) natural phenomenon->redefined as "God or a god did it"
I overreacted - I get that way when an OP antagonizes from the beginning.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
First of all, awesome fantasy land. There are both arrows of flames and walls made of Goodness. Is that like gingerbread? But I digress.
How about this: I met this one Christian one time who carried a gun around in his front jeans pocket. He wore tight jeans. If someone were to actually attempt to mug him, I'm pretty sure he'd shoot himself in the leg just trying to get at the thing. It was pointed at both his nuts AND his femoral artery.
Boy, those Christians are poor tactical planners, aren't they? Oh generalizations.
Just because Matt lost his shit on you doesn't mean we're all going to rain unheavenly fire upon you for thinking you're the first one to come up with the idea of free thought meaning religion too. And a couple of people are going to say you're stupid without actually meeting you. Welcome to the internet.
But to address your main point, it's my personal position that you can believe and think whatever you want. That doesn't make it true. If you care about what's true, then then you may be closer to a free thinker than someone who simply wants to be right.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Will, he's a joker. Look here. Hamby's a sleuth.
Oh MAN he got me. I was totally sucked in! LoveThyNeighbour, I shall have my pranking revenge upon you! Oh yes I shall.
...
Gah. I can't believe I got duped so easily. On the INTERNET. Oh the shame.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Oh, and welcome back to the forums, Will. I've been buckling under the weight of all the unutilized snark.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I thought entering this forum, it would be good for me to question my newly formed beliefs as I think, hopefully al lot of you would agree that if you become religious, you need to prepared to take the bad with good, its no good in saying that religion does good because that is factually wrong.
So I under a long and drawn out process thought about my religious belief, but I admite openly that I could be wrong, as can anybody and I trhink if you can't say that then you need to have less of an ego. It seems that my thoughts offended some people, now I don't know why I was just asking a question, which seems to be the whole point logic or reason to ask questions.
Now if you have a problem with my writing to talk to God or nature cuse it ain't my fault look up dyspraxia, you can't call me nothing as it is a learning disorder.
Back on topic, now surely I am not the only one who thinks that the immature drivel that spews out of the vacant mouths of people who think it is rebellous to insult people, must think this is an important topic and not one that us mere people on internet can solve but one that needs heady spirtual and moral comtemplation, no0t one by shouting at a guy you disagree with, that is not a victory that is just shouting and if shouting was a means of victory we would be living in the third reich.
SO I am going to leave you all with this as until you all grow up I ma going to say this if this what an athiest world with look like with the religious minority being shouted at then I would rather live in a wrold where everyone can speak and have a voice ad not be called a dumbo or crazy, or psycho or unintelligent and by the way I will be sure to post my graduation picture on here when I do graduate to show that you may think I am homer simpson but unlike him I have a real university degree and I would bet thats a lot more then a lot of the people who wrote on this page have.
[Line breaks inserted by BobSpence1, to make this post easier to read]
Dang, I wish you'd use paragraphs, bossman.
I don't read monotonic run on sentences because it's really difficult to focus, you lose your place over and over because eyes and brains aren't very good at staying continuously attentive over long strings of information.
I'd try but eventually my will brain hurt from the strain. Please break up your text.
Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist
www.mathematicianspictures.com
I've had a University degree nearly 12 years now. There's people on this site that have Masters and PhD degrees.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Yes they look impressive, doesn't mean squat if you can't apply what you learn (and you don't always learn everything in class), I personally have an Electronic Technician and Electronic Engineering degree, and use what I have learned quite well in my field of expertise (electronic security and survillance). I however know people with far more knowledge in business than me, far more richer and never went father than high school. So a degree isn't the be all and end all of everything.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
What's your university degree in? Mine's in physics.
Ok, Mr "I have a real degree" (I'm working on my 2nd - big woo)
How can freethinking include belief systems that have a punishment for disbelief?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Ooh.. Ooh... I have two degrees. I think deludedgod has three. Want to compare how many books we've read now?
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I find this academic condescension from theists very puzzling. Particularly when so many arrive to debunk science.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Hey Bossman. Since when was idol worship freethinking? Who invented the idol and who would then worship it? A freethinker ancient story thinker we call jesus, called peter satan, and went on to smash on the religious temple, of hypocrites.
The message is the same today, fuck you bossman, you dogmist blind slave to the devil of submission of wrong thinking , you non free thinker .... Fuck your idol and your imaginary master .... you are the enemy to love, to heal, and so my empathy is loud, because I care.
Get the devil of separatism out of your ear ... You are god, all is god, so fuck your dumb, bad god definition. Thermodynamics best explains g-o-d ... the "saving good news gospel" this day. Read up ... Wise up to what we really are.
Atheism Books.
Dude, I did two years of physics before I realized I'd be working on differential equations for another two years. You're a stronger man (woman?) than I.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Degree in Electrical Engineering (Electronics and Communications), with Honors.
Surveys show that higher levels of education tend to be associated with lower levels of relgious belief.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Wow, I'm humbled to be in the presence of such minds.
I shouldn't have bragged on my 2nd degree in process - It's in Theatre.
Compared to you guys, my degrees are downright wussy.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
My degree was in awesome. I graduated magnu cum laud.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Oh, cool, you have a degree. That is impressive. (not) What is your degree, and what university did you attend?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
You are much smarter than me. I made it three years before I realized I'd be doing differential equations for the rest of my life. So I switched to comp-sci.
I wish I would've stuck it out. I like my career, but I often miss the pure math.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
If memory serves, I beleive there was a study on the corilation between intelligence/knowledge and religous belief...
Edit: I guess I should have read the replies before I posted this.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace
Well, then question away. You haven't actually presented any beliefs, save the omni-identity of God, which really does tend to fall apart when you factor in elements like 'does that mean that little kids believing in Santa makes Santa really exist?'. So, what questions do you have about your beliefs? What beliefs are you trying to question?
Ok, you could be wrong. Let me ask you this, then: Do you actually believe these things, or would you like to believe these things? Belief is an assertion of knowledge, of surety. The very statement of 'I could be wrong' undermines that surety, and implies that the ideas you cling to are not actually beliefs, but hopes. 'This is how I think things work, but I don't know for sure.'
Again: belief is an assertion of knowledge, not opinion. It is a claim that 'this is true, and I know that.' Do you know? Or do you just have an idea you'd like to think is right?
I don't have any problem with you writing to talk to anyone you like. I do think you should work on your writing skills, but that's a matter of effort, even with the learning disorders many of us suffer from.
Please do try to avoid invoking Godwin's Law. But back on topic, as you say: from the point of 'moral contemplation'... is it moral for people to teach others to believe in things they themselves cannot prove, cannot demonstrate? Which is more moral: to teach children that this life is worthwhile only because you can use it to get a better reward? To teach them that they need to behave because the rules handed down by a being that refuses to show itself say that doing so is the only way they can avoid eternal punishment? Or to teach them to critically examine the things that are claimed by 'authority' figures? To think for themselves, as you claim to do?
Can you, in fact, demonstrate even a single shred of evidence for your opinion beyond 'it makes me feel better to think this'? What's the basis for your opinion?
Well, while you're celebrating 'a wrold (sic) where everyone can speak and have a voice and not be called a dumbo or crazy or psycho or unintelligent', please allow me to point you to a recent campaign ad by Senator Elizabeth Dole, in which she expressly claims her opponent is unfit for public service because she merely attended a fundraiser thrown by people who also run an atheist PAC: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/north_carolina_senate_race_deg.php
The implications attendant in the ad are that her opponant is herself an atheist, and that this makes her even less fit to serve in the U.S. Senate. She's not, by the way, but even if she were, someone's religious beliefs have no bearing on their fitness to serve the public trust. Such appeals to make those beliefs part of the criteria of an election violate the spirit of the First Ammendment, though obviously not the letter, as it is not the government, but those seeking to influence the composition of the government, using a 'religious test'.
So you just keep on celebrating, bucko, but the world you're celebrating? It doesn't exist.
And, for the record, if logical thought and reasoning 'doesn't wash' with you... good luck in school. Please demonstrate your personal integrity by showing us how you refuse to use either in your classes.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid