Surely free thinking would include religious belief
Offline The thing that knocks the stuffing out of me is that when I talk to an athiest I get onto the subject on freethinking and I say well if I have chosen to be religous surely by defination I am frree thinking as no one has told me to be, no one has shown to be , no one has badgered me to be so surley II am free thinker. I am sure you will say well you believe in what other people believe that is not true my idea of god is not llike most chruistians I believe him to omniidentity as he will appear to you as you see him, if you see him as a man witrh a beard then he will be, if you see him as a teapot then he will be, if you see him as Xenu then he wil etc, he is a personal god to the individualnot the other way round. I am sure I will be mocked for not habving strong beliefs and I will tolerate them but to be honest I don't care you can hit me with all this logical and reason rubbish all you want let me oput it to you this way I was never told Inever acheive anything by religion, I was never told I was usless by religion and I was never humilated by religion sorry you take your logic and take it someone who take all this stuff seriously it does not wash here.
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I have a doctorate in d20ology.
Or, at the very least, you can't prove that I don't have one.
... just 6 units shy of an AA, in general Ed, but so what, as far as rational goes.
I have a Bachelor's of Science in Game Design and Development. I don't really know how my degree helps me here. What was your degree in?
Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.
That's the same thing I did. Of course, now I'm back in school for languages. I couldn't deal with working in an industry that doesn't care if they do it right the first time. That may have just been the place I was working.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Hopefully this will clarify what I believe, I beleibve that God is not a man with a beard sitting on cloud with angles and harps, I beleive that God is a high sentent being which beyond the understanding humanity, thats perosnally what I think, I think that the gospels were mistranslated and rewritten so many times as to poison the message of (If) any creator may have left us. I believe we are children of god or whatever face or name you give to the person who created this place we call a universe, to answer a question I asked I think it is true what I just said I don't know itt as nobody knows these unfortunately because if we did then we find something else to fight about because we are human. Nowm you may say what led me to this conclusion, we I thought that if the universe is infinite then there could be an infinite amount of possiblities and why could not a creator be one of those possibilites
A creator of existence itself, from nothing to something, a creator apart from anything something ??? Just makes no sense to me .... How could there be a beginning, and to ever be an ending???
Atheism Books.
It could.
So, you're an agnostic theist?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
The univserse had a beginning, the creator made thing happen and it was born and he was hands off, I am not saying I am right blelieving what I do I am just saying what I do believe if you find it stupid fair enough I unfortunately can't help that
Old, tired, but still perfectly valid question: What created the Creator?
Science shows that complex, organised things definitely can emerge from simpler things, therefore the 'creator' does not have to be anything more than a 'twitch' at the smallest level of reality, so Science doesn't have the infinite regress problem of a chain of ever grander 'creators' stretching back with no logical way to stop it, therefore the Naturalistic, science-based world-view is much more plausible than anything involving 'conscious' Creator thingys.
Not that we have observed conscious beings emerging from primeval 'soup', just to forestall the inevitable response, but we see no magic barrier preventing this, any more than there is a magic barrier between 'macro' and 'micro' evolution.
Not 'proof' of scientific, naturalistic, ideas, Science isn't into absolute proof, nor is it 'disproof' of God idea, just that. based on what we currently observe and best current theories, the God idea is much less likely to be close to whatever the 'ultimate truth' may be.
I am not calling you stupid for not being able to grasp these ideas easily, they are not obvious until you do some non-trivial amount of study. Just want to let you know that many of the common assumptions behind your viewpoint are not as solidly based as you may think. We encourage you to look into these ideas for yourself.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Sounds like Bossman's a Deist.
Something from nothing ???
Matt, if he's a Deist, all he needs is some time.
He'll be an atheist the more he thinks about it.
I admit, I AM impatient .... non tolerant of separatism, but a I AM not sorry for this emotion from caring that I can not contain .... as I scream rather than conceal ... for all to hear, as I proclaim absolute divinity, as I insist absolutely you are god too, just as I AM ....
Tap your foot ....
Can't help the way I AM, Guitarist prophet Dimebag was also murdered, but the laws of physics will never change, as forever is my name , you know who I am, REVOLUTION , as to understanding we are g-o-d, ONE, eternal .... hey , so says science , CRANK IT , LOUDER .... slay the dragon , the poison , fuck religion idol worship , NO MASTER , no creator, no beginning, no ending , only NOW.
Pantera - Revolution is my name
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzh8j2qF-WY
DIRT SIMPLE
Atheism Books.
Yep, definitely agnostic.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
I believe that God is athe creator but I don't have proof, just that I think is possible thats all, deism is very, very intelligent people like your Einsteins and your newtons, me I am just a moderate christian who likes to think about what I believe. Nobiody created god he was already there he exusted before time itself and he created time, as he is infinite
That is a nonsensical, illogical statement, for which there is zero evidence. If something like God didn't need to be created, why couldn't matter just always existed, because that's all we need for the Universe to occur.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Good for you.
Why did you stop thinking so soon?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Um, yeah, that means you're an agnostic theist.
The theist always argues that the universe can't be infinite, thus God had to have been infinite. But, this commits a logical fallacy. Why can't the universe be infinite? Or, why can't something other than the Christian God be infinite? Unless you have proof, you have no logical reason to assert that this God is not subject to the exact same laws that apply to everything else.
Should I cite Occam's razor?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
My previous reply was too wordy, so here's a one word response: etymology.
Look into it.
God is this, as always eternal, as something cannot come from nothing. Zero never was. The "good word gospel" this day is the "sum of one", thermodynamics.
Atheism Books.
Well, the universe isn't infinite. It's boundless, but decidedly finite. So, my question isn't 'what led you to the conclusion', but rather these:
1)Why did anyone need to create the universe, if nobody needed to create the Creator?
2)Given that 'universe' is 'all that is', wouldn't God necessarily be part of the universe?
3)If God isn't part of the universe, where was God when He created it?
Those are just a few things to consider, but the important one is number 1. Why does the universe need to be created? Why does God need to be the eternal, why can't the universe itself be the eternal? Consider: There is no evidence that God exists. There is evidence that the universe exists. This makes the universe more like to exist eternally than God. But more importantly: if you just think these things, but can't really assert that you know them, then do you really believe them, or just hope that they're true? Isn't it better to embrace the search for truth than to decide on any specific explanation without any proof?
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
Just to add ... We are stuck in "this" universe, as this big bang we call it, but how silly it is to assume "this" universe, is no more than a small piece of the grandeur ultimate infinite eternal timeless cosmos of infinite bangs. Why assume less?
And again, WTF isn't existence , as if "zero" ever ever existed ??? How the fuck can anything not be god, when one finally stops assuming a beginning and ending ???
The word g-o-d needs serious correction, as to say fuck all religion of idol worship design. All is god, there is nothing to worship ... as there is no beginning , nor end.
SIMPLE. I am what I am , god, just as you, just as all star dust is .... GOD, ONE, ETERNAL .... simple .... sheezzz , da ....
Atheism Books.
These guys have been rebutted repeatedly. I'd be glad to link the many debates and video debates that shows it ti be tru. Maybe we can all watch and vote on each aspect of each larger premise?
The are supposed to be the absolute BEST that Xian theodicy can muster. If true, they should have no fear in letting us analyze their remarks more closesly.
Any takers?
Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov