Need Advice for Speech

Jeza500
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Need Advice for Speech

Hello RRS, I am a 17 year old Australian Atheist

I currently attend a Uniting Church school were every 2 weeks we have a chapel service which if we do not attend we are given 1 hour detentions. Once a year we have to go to a House Chapel service and if we dont go to that we get a 3 hour saturday detention and are forced to go to another houses chapel service.

Next year is my last year of school I thought I would do something special and volunteer to give a speech. Usually these speeches are prayers about what the students want to happen but I thought with a bit of help I could give them something to think about on their drives home especially after 5 years of making me go to their chapel services i think they owe it to me to give them something else to think about. I would not let anyone see the speech before the night.

So RRS will you help me?

"We're as good as dead but they haven't buried us yet"


butterbattle
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 Hi Jeza, Welcome to

 Hi Jeza, Welcome to RRS!

Of course we will lend you our support! Or, at the very least, I would be honored to help you as much as I can. After reading your post, I am deeply depressed by the frustrating situation you seem to be stumped in. Do you have any friends that could assist you in this project? 

Considering your intended audience, this will be incredibly difficult, but you have plenty of time to prepare. If you haven't read the Bible already, I would suggest that read it all the way through. This will strengthen your position, and open up possible lines of inquiry for your speech. If you have already read the Bible, I believe the two most important pursuits would be to simply learn more about the subject and develop good public speaking skills. Once you feel that you are ready, you can create a brilliant speech. We can help you every step of the way.  

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Renee Obsidianwords
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HI Jeza500!Maybe you could

HI Jeza500!

Maybe you could start by reflecting on some of the good things you are taking from your time at school? How will what you learned help you in the future? You could stick to discussing all of the things that aren't part of the religious part of your school and thank all of the teachers, students and yourself for graduating. No "thank god" no prayer...just giving credit where credit is due.

BTW, welcome to the forums!

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http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/


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My first reaction is one of

Yo!

My first reaction is one of caution. It won't be easy to tell people who will find your thoughts alien of your views of the world and of your lack of interest in a god which is to them an integral part of their social lives and the way they think.

I'd suggest talking about at least three things to consider:

  1. morals -- being a christian is not a moral position in itself. Moral decisions are made by the individual in a specific situation. You need to understand the problems you have to face in order to deal with them. A god telling you how to act doesn't allow you to understand the issues or make moral decisions. You have no way of testing the morality of a god: you have to accept it.  Also historically religion hasn't itself helped regarding moral choices. The crusades were christians trying to steal land from muslims. During the American civil war, when slavery was a part of the conflict, people used religious ideas to support slavery. People were attacked by the church for their interest in scientific research: Galileo was forced to publicly speak against his own scientific research, while others like Giordano Bruno were executed. People have morals not because they are christians but because they are aware of the problems.
  2. explanations -- we are always in need of explanations. Without them we tend to be unsettled, less able to deal with things. Understanding the world, even though the understanding may be wrong, makes it easier for us to deal with the world. Science these days provides most of our answers about the world. But how did we cope before science? We still needed answers, but had no better ways of seeing the world than to give explanations based on traditional beliefs. The world is flat and has four corners. Woman came from man's rib, so woman is subservient to man as belonging to him. God created the world, so that's how it and we got here. The world was created in 4004 BCE. None of these have any foundation that we can know, but they make the world easier to deal with for those who believe them. God is a key explanation, but there is no reason to believe that god exists. Here, an argument based on faith ["you need faith to understand these things"] will also justify acts of religious violence, such as terrorism or the murder of doctors who help women terminate pregnancies. (Faith in no way can help understanding for it tells people that god knows what is best, so he can understand it for you.)
  3. higher power -- a child becomes used to the presence of helpful parental supervision and without it the child will lack a context for understanding the world, for feeling safe in the world. Knowing that you have parents is a kind of security for your actions. When you grow up, you lose that security, unless of course you replace it with a god. That god takes over and gives you support when necessary.

There are lots of other things that you could deal with, but these are the ones that I find easiest to communciate -- and they won't be easy for an audience who won't want to listen. I hope it goes well, if you decide to do it.

 

 

spin

Trust the evidence, Luke


Jeza500
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Hey again and thank you for

Hey again and thank you for the warm welcome,

I was considering giving the speech at assembly where  a) i would reach more people  b) i would not incur as much god-fearing wrath that would threaten my learning and my graduation c) I think the assembly is a more open forum.

I will try and organise the speech for some time early in the year like febuary so i have plenty of time to make my arguement as strong as possible i will also get a friend or a teacher to film it.

"We're as good as dead but they haven't buried us yet"


EXC
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I would do a sarcastic

I would do a sarcastic speech about praying that God would stop sending atheists to Hell just for not believing. Complete with full descriptions of the horrors that await us all.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


spin
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On morality

I wrote:

spin wrote:
morals -- being a christian is not a moral position in itself. Moral decisions are made by the individual in a specific situation. You need to understand the problems you have to face in order to deal with them. A god telling you how to act doesn't allow you to understand the issues or make moral decisions. You have no way of testing the morality of a god: you have to accept it.  Also historically religion hasn't itself helped regarding moral choices.... People have morals not because they are christians but because they are aware of the problems.

Just a point of clarification: morality changes over time. What we find moral today may not have been considered in the past. Many people oppose the notion of the death sentence today, whereas in Elizabethan times executions were a source of public amusement. Slavery was a part of the way of life in ancient times, as can be seen in the bible. What is important is our active involvement in making moral decisions. Following what we are told will not make us moral, nor will it improve the world's standards of morals. Christianity is not a repository of morals. Christians don't hold rights to the notion of morals. They are swayed by moral changes in the society through time.

 

 

spin

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Jeza500 wrote:Hello RRS, I

Jeza500 wrote:

Hello RRS, I am a 17 year old Australian Atheist

I currently attend a Uniting Church school were every 2 weeks we have a chapel service which if we do not attend we are given 1 hour detentions. Once a year we have to go to a House Chapel service and if we dont go to that we get a 3 hour saturday detention and are forced to go to another houses chapel service.

Next year is my last year of school I thought I would do something special and volunteer to give a speech. Usually these speeches are prayers about what the students want to happen but I thought with a bit of help I could give them something to think about on their drives home especially after 5 years of making me go to their chapel services i think they owe it to me to give them something else to think about. I would not let anyone see the speech before the night.

So RRS will you help me?

Where is this "free will" their daddy talks about, "I gave you a brain but you can't use it"

Maybe throw this quote at them

"Question with boldness even the existance of God, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason, than to that of blindfolded fear" Thomas Jefferson

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." Thomas Jefferson,

I know that he is American, but our countries share the same democratic principles that frown on authoritarian one person or one party rule.



 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Jeza500. I'm supposing, to

Jeza500. I'm supposing, to give them something to think about as to slap organized religion. I like to remind the religious they commit idol worship, and g-o-d separatism, against the gnosis atheist story buddha jesus, that basically said all is one, the laws (of physics) will never change, to not pray in public (meaning to meditate alone), and called the church temple of dogmatic enforcers of idol worship blind hypocrites. Christianity is Pauline in style that preaches "faith", opposing the gnosis message of "knowing" and having no faith, no doubts, NO Master, as all is ONE, as science explains today as the law of "thermodynamics, the best "saving good word gospel" yet.
     
I would include some comparative world religion atheist scholar Alan Watts style thoughts, as I try to do here at RRS in the religious oriented threads.

Example:  Alan Watts wrote: "The religion of Jesus was that he knew he was a son of God, and the phrase "son of " means "of the nature of," so that a son of God is an individual who realizes that he is, and always has been, one with God. "I and the Father are one." .... and,  "Let this mind be in you." that is to say, let the same kind of [rational] consciousness be in you that was in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ knew he was God." [ as you and all are christ too, as to say 100% god. ]

"Wake up" [said a famous buddha] and find out eventually who you also really are [ god ]. In our culture of course, they'll say you're crazy or you're blasphemous, and they'll either put you in jail or in the nut house (which is the same thing). But if you wake up in India and tell your friends and relations, "My goodness, I've just discovered that I'm God," they'll laugh and say, "Oh, congratulations, at last you found out." ~ Alan Watts*

Ever read:
   Nietzsche's The Antichrist, by Travis J. Denneson
Part 4 , IV. The Buddhistic Jesus?
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/travis_denneson/antichrist.html

   Why I Am Not A Christian, by Bertrand Russell
http://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html

   Jean-Paul Sartre - "Man is condemned to be free"; this statement by Sartre both in his major philosophical work, "Being and Nothingness"
http://www.nimbinaustralia.com/zenwatt/condemnedtobefree.html

  This is helpful - Jesus versus churchianity
http://www.hinduism.co.za/jesus.htm

Being Atheist is most godly wise. Have fun with your speech, as the Christ you are! Here's some more inspiration from 3 "arch angels" ....

Carl Sagan - "Pale Blue Dot" , 3 min   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M


"Wisdom of the Buddha" , 8 mins.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTsb-woP3jI

Pat Condell, all,  http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=patcondell&view=videos


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Hello Jeza500! I believe

Hello Jeza500!
I believe you'd have a greater success if you would speak 'from within' a Christianic point of view. Not all Christians are rotten and dangerous, though the modern majority is. There is a document on the crisis of Christianic faith, and why it's so evil. It's called River of Fire.
I was impressed when I read this, can a Christian have such an insight? Those I've met certainly didn't. I don't believe that religion must be erradicated, I consider it as one of main phenomena appearing automatically in human cultures. However I'm sure it needs a great deal of changes, rationality, reforms, and pruning. It seems that this orthodox point of view described here by Dr. Kalomiros shows a much less barbaric form of Christianity than you're used to. It's my preference to change and rebuild, rather than to act against something. The savage worshippers of demonic Yahweh and his lake of fire should get a lesson in morality.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


Jeffrick
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try this

Jeza500 wrote:

Hello RRS, I am a 17 year old Australian Atheist

I currently attend a Uniting Church school were every 2 weeks we have a chapel service which if we do not attend we are given 1 hour detentions. Once a year we have to go to a House Chapel service and if we dont go to that we get a 3 hour saturday detention and are forced to go to another houses chapel service.

Next year is my last year of school I thought I would do something special and volunteer to give a speech. Usually these speeches are prayers about what the students want to happen but I thought with a bit of help I could give them something to think about on their drives home especially after 5 years of making me go to their chapel services i think they owe it to me to give them something else to think about. I would not let anyone see the speech before the night.

So RRS will you help me?

    You could mention Christian freewill  in the same sentence you mention the blackmail and coercion involved in attending  house chapel.   You could ask or mention at least how moral is it to blackmail "believers",  and still call them "believers" as opposed to blackmail victums.

     You could make it a point of your speach not to say anything  ' in the least' religious,  completely secular!!!!!!!

     Would you consider writing your speach on this site before you make it?

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Jeza500
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brilliant ideas. this site

brilliant ideas. this site is blocked by the school server (i have know idea why) so i can respond during the day i have know idea why.

@jeffrick i will definitely post the speech as it progresses on here

I have decided to start with Renee's idea of thanking everybody I currently thank friends, teachers, my parents, pea. I finish that section by say "but i do not thank god" then i was thinking of then going in to statements about atheism and what it is influenced by as well as world views in that free will

I also think this way would be better as it sets the tone better than any opening as it already dismisses the "I pray..." bit straight off

 

"We're as good as dead but they haven't buried us yet"


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Jeza500 wrote:this site is

Jeza500 wrote:
this site is blocked by the school server (i have know idea why) so i can respond during the day i have know idea why.

Typically, schools will block any potential avenue of communication. On the other hand, do you know if other forums such as CF and CARM have been blocked? 

Quote:
I have decided to start with Renee's idea of thanking everybody I currently thank friends, teachers, my parents, pea. I finish that section by say "but i do not thank god" then i was thinking of then going in to statements about atheism and what it is influenced by as well as world views in that free will

I also think this way would be better as it sets the tone better than any opening as it already dismisses the "I pray..." bit straight off

Oh, sounds good. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Jeza500 wrote:I have decided

Jeza500 wrote:

I have decided to start with Renee's idea of thanking everybody I currently thank friends, teachers, my parents, pea. 

Yes I thank the great and wonderous peas in all their glory for being soooo damn tasty  Sticking out tongue I have no idea what I was trying to say there could have been a freudian slip or something like that. i think i was philosphers got distracted and was writing scientists, neither of which have an "a" in them.

"We're as good as dead but they haven't buried us yet"


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Do not equate atheism to a

Do not equate atheism to a matter of "free will". "Free will" is a religious fictional concept.  Atheism is a mere lack of belief, nothing more.

More solidly based atheists hold their positions, not because they want to, but because logic and reason have lead them to their conclusions.

An uneducated atheist who doesn't know Bentrand Russard's teapot, or Occahm's Razor, or law of probability, is the same ignorance Christians have in claiming Jesus who never read the bible and just regurgitate what the pastor says on Sunday.

There is more to holding the atheist position than merely saying, "I don't believe". If that is all you have, you are not well armed. Sure you can do that, and yes you are an atheist, but it doesn't mean you have solid reasons to hold your position.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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You can bash faith without even offending them

You should give them a good “fire and brimstone” speech about honesty, and never say anything they might reject. Attack dishonesty which is the root of religion. Attack faith in beliefs that they think are false – explain that those false faiths are lies because there is no reasonable evidence that they are true. (reasonable evidence for the truth of something is evidence that would convince a reasonable unbiased person that it is true). Do not say anything derogatory about Christianity and do not even hint that there is no reasonable evidence for Christian beliefs. Write it as though you had to get it approved before you make the speech. Write something that would be hypocrisy if a Christian said it – Religious people are amazing blind to their own hypocrisy about their religion.

Put in quotes from the bible supporting that lying and hypocrisy and arrogance are evil.

Explain how utterly arrogant it is for these false faiths to believe that they can know that their beliefs are true without any reasonable evidence that they are true. It is megalomania for those false faiths to think that they can know things without evidence that they are true. There are lots of good bible verses condemning pride as evil, such as:


Proverbs 16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Pride: inhibits Christian harmony (Romans 12:16) , corrupts our ability to show true love ( Love is not proud -1 Corinthians 13:4), deceives us: "The pride of your heart has deceived you.." Obadiah 1:3 NIV, causes us to forget God: "then your heart will become proud and you will forget the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 8:14 NIV (also Psalm 10:4), hardens our hearts: "But Hezekiah's heart was proud and he did not respond to the kindness shown him" 2 Chronicles 32:25 NIV, blocks prayers, healing and forgiveness (Psalm 18:27), keeps God distant : "For though the LORD is exalted, Yet He regards the lowly, But the haughty He knows from afar" (Psalm 138:6 NASB), brings ruin on our lives: "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall" Proverbs 16:18 NIV (also Proverbs 15:25, Zephaniah 3:10-12, Leviticus 26:19, Daniel 5:20, Job 20:5-7)

If someone makes up something that is not based on evidence then it’s an evil lie.

If someone makes up something that is not based on evidence and states it as though it were true then they are an evil liar.

If you spread things that are not based on evidence then your spreading lies.

If someone makes up something that is not based on evidence, and then believes it, then you’re lying to yourself which is irrational and evil.

Bash the faith based beliefs of groups that you are allowed to bash. I am sure you can bash Nazis and Communists and witch burners and pagan religions. You can probably bash Mormons and Scientologists. You do not need to bash the faiths of the powers of you school.

There was no reasonable evidence for the beliefs of the Nazis that lead to the Holocaust. The secret police of the Tsar of Russia invented the lie about the Illuminati that the Jews were involved in a conspiracy to control the world economy. Hitler claimed without reasonable evidence, that the Jews and Communists conspired to cause Germany’s defeat in the first world war. In the 1930's German nationalist scientists developed the myth that there were distinct races of people and that some races were superior to others. There is no biological evidence that there are races, such as, an arian race or a Jewish race.

The witch burning was based on beliefs that people made up about magic and contracts with the devil, mostly about innocent women who were burned to death alive at the stake or murdered by hanging or otherwise tortured to death. They were lies because there was no reasonable evidence that these things were true.


Communism is based on doctrines made up by Marx that there was no reasonable evidence for and that therefore were lies. For example, Marx claimed that human history was inevitably marching toward the glorious revolution of the workers, but he had no reasonable evidence that it was true, so he was just lying  - he was making up lies.

When the Aztec priests said that they would have to cut the living hearts out of 100 young female virgins so that the corn would grow, they had no reasonable evidence that it was true, so then they were just lying.

If you're allowed to bash the Catholics, then the assumption of the body of Mary into heaven and the transubstantiation of bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus are just lies because there is no reasonable evidence that they are true.

If you're allowed to bash Moslems, then there is no reasonable evidence that the angel Gabriel appeared in a cave and told Mohammad anything, or the Quran is anything but religious fiction, or that the Quran was written before the 9th century, or that those who die for Islam go to heaven, so Islam is just an evil lie. When moslems suicide murder a school bus full of kindergarten children, or fly airplanes into buildings, then they are sacrificing their lives and the lives of their victims for a monstrous lie.

If you're allowed to bash Mormons, then explain how there is no reasonable evidence that the angel Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith and told him the location of golden tablets, or that he dug up any golden tablets, or that he dictated any golden tablets to his wife, or that any of the Mormon holy books are anything besides fiction, so its all just lies.

If you’re allowed to bash Scientologists, then explain the story of Xenu and thetans, and that there is no reasonable evidence that its true, and thus, Scientologists are just liars for claiming that it is true.

Bush had no reasonable evidence that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Bush developed an interesting method of lying to himself – he told his intelligence services what he believed, and then he rewarded them when they told him things that agreed with his beliefs, and punished them when they told him things that disagreed with his beliefs. Even though he had intelligence service reports claiming that there were weapons of mass destruction, the reports were just the product of Bush’s irrational dishonesty, so Bush was lying to the world when he claimed that there were weapons of mass destruction and invaded Iraq.

I am sure, that you could think of things that your government has claimed were true, that there was no evidence for, that was therefore just a lie.


 

when you say "faith" I think "evil lies"
when you say "god" I think "santa clause"


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The more you know, the

The more you know, the better you can decide what to talk about.  There are several articles I've written that may help you articulate your ideas more precisely and clearly.  Give them a read if you like, and feel free to ask me any questions if something doesn't make sense to you:

What Does Sugar Have To Do With Murder?!

Why Are Atheists So Angry?

Does Science Take Away Wonder and Awe?

Free Will: Why we don't have it, and why that's a good thing.

For New Atheists: Is This Really All There Is?

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Books about atheism