The Twilight Books
Offline This extremely popular teen book series, about a quiet teenage girl who falls in love with a handsome, rich, "perfect" vampire has HEAVY religious overtones. The author Stephanie Meyer is a Mormon and makes her feelings about love, relationships, sex, etc. very clear.
In the books, Edward the vampire and main character is gorgeous, rich and very romantic and old-fashioned. He is very abusive towards Bella, the main female character, who is often too stupid to make any decisions for herself. He is much stronger and faster than her since he is immortal and all that nonsense, so he uses it to his advantage to control and possess her. Bella even tries to kill herself when he temporarily leaves her and she thinks he's never coming back. He forbids her from doing things, uses scare tactics to "make her leave him", tells her he will have sex with her only if she marries him, encourages her to lie to her friends and family, makes decisions for her, etc.
Worst of all, he impregnates her at one point and practically forces her to have an abortion. When Bella convinces him that she "loves" the quickly growing vampire inside of her that is literally killing her, suddenly the author makes it all okay and even though she practically dies in the process everything turns out okay and her daughter is PERFECT.
Meyers also claims that vampires have 25 chromosomes. HELLO??? 23 + 25 cannot MATE! Apparently Mormons don't learn Biology.
Yet he is "so hot" and "so sweet and romantic", teenage girls gush. I think it's pretty disturbing how young girls are being swayed by a man who is clearly controlling, possessive and abusive. Yes, it's just fiction and just for fun, but as someone who's read all four books I shudder at the immense popularity of these average books with clear religious agenda.
*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*
"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby
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Blech! More Goth romance along the line of Ann Rice and Laurell Hamilton. There hasn't been a good vampire story since Nosferatu. But as long as 50 million Hot Topic shopping teens keep buying the garbage, people will keep churning it out.
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.
Sometimes " The Majority " only means that all the fools are on the same side.
Goth kids are not this book's target audience at all. Goth kids like books that are darker than this glittery teenage romance novel. This book's target audience are Dawson's Creek fans, as is evidenced by the people at my school that read it.
My Brand New Blog - Jesu Ad Nauseum.
God of the Gaps: As knowledge approaches infinity, God approaches zero. It's introductory calculus.
I guess that my definition of Goth is a little lax
Goth: Middle to upper middle class Caucasian American teens who so desperately wants to stand out that they dress in neo-renaissance style clothing that is traditionally black offset with occasional whites, dye their hair an unnatural shade of black which they sometimes highlight with other unnatural colors, avoid sunlight which gives them pale skin that causes outsiders to assume they are wannabe vampires, verbalize their teen angst by feigning misanthropy and contempt for conformity, write morbid poetry to show how full of unlife they are, and listen to music such as Vampyrouss, the Cure, Broomstick Witches, Inkubus/Sukkubus, and Depeche Mode... music so terrible as to cause the average person to attempt suicide.
Conveyed Goth message: " I am so different, and you suck. See how I dress? That is to make you look at me so I can sneer at you while you take note of how different I am. I'm different, really! See how I conform to the image of nonconformity? That shows how different I am. Hey! Don't walk by without a second glance! I'm different I tell you! Notice meeeee, pleeeeeeese notice meeeeee! "
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.
Sometimes " The Majority " only means that all the fools are on the same side.
Girls at my school are absolutely crazy right now about the movie... I hear them talking non-stop and I had to figure out what it was about. I learned basically what your summary said and in a group conversation about it something like this happened.
some girl : "All guys need to watch this movie and take notes because if any guy acted like he does they would have tons of girls falling for them."
Friend of mine (guy): "How do you know no one is like him? Maybe Jon is just like him."
Me (jon): "I hope I am nothing like him. Besides, I would rather have a connection with a girl that is deeper than just a sudden-- manic infatuation.
(my girlfriend at the time was listening in)
I thought i said this very well despite the pause and I was actually quite proud of it. Instead I got a ridiculous look from the girls. Even my friend looked at me like, "you don't want girls all over you???"
figures...
My girlfriend broke up with me recently with "This isn't working for me anymore."
figures...
not upset about it though, if that is her idea of love then im glad I got out of it.
The book feeds that fantasy, magical, soul mate, superstitious idea of love, and targets it at the teenage girls that are so desperate for that fantasy, romantic, love. In the end the book doesn't have a good impact, I feel like all the senior girls in my class have dropped in their maturity level.
Well, personally, I tend to blame the morons who project onto the fiction more than the fiction itself.
But that's just me.
I'm not too worked-up about it. Teen vampiresses are fickle; they'll have a new series to drool over in a year or so.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
fuck off, i love the cure! but i will say this: there is nothing goth about the cure except robert smith's look. nothing.
a quick listen to the cure will convince anyone that they're an excellent '80s pop group who could perhaps be classified as new wave. they're no more goth than roxy music or the psychedelic furs or tears for fears. even their lyrics aren't typically angsty: lovesong, mint car, close to me, friday i'm in love--they're all just great, catchy songs. i guess the closest thing to goth they did was lullaby.
one of my friends is sort of a trendy punk/goth guy (in the style of bam margera: he's a big h.i.m. and cky fan) and he's really into goth girls. he and i have often had long conversations about why the hell goth kids love the cure so much.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
We can read a lot into a thing if we have that filter up.
That aside, it really sounds like the author is a religious quack. On the "no sex before marriage" stance alone it is absurd nonsense in my mind. To me, it's sad religious pandering to a weak minded audience. It smells of Jesus Camp to me. "Get em' while they're young and dumb"
ha. it's sad so many girls have bullshit notions of what a perfect guy is. i'd rather have a guy who's my best friend, regardless of how rich or good-looking he is, than some handsome and suave guy i have nothing in common with other than our "undying love". give me a break.
*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*
"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby
Not required.
Not required.
Not required.
Not required.
Way to judge the motives of a whole group of people.
None of this is required and some of it is wrong-- especially the part about The Cure sucking. If I were to list goth bands, I would at least mention Skinny Puppy, Front 242, old Nine Inch Nails, etc.
You could also apply this to anyone that doesn't dress conventionally. What about the body mod community? Do you think they do it for attention or because they actually might like how it looks?
If you reply and call me a goth kid, you lose the argument.
My Brand New Blog - Jesu Ad Nauseum.
God of the Gaps: As knowledge approaches infinity, God approaches zero. It's introductory calculus.
As the title quotes South Park, The Cure rocks. No, I'm not a goth, and never had any pretentions to being one, although I've always had this odd attraction to "goth chicks." Anyway, thanks for reminding me. I just cued up The Cure in Itunes.
Gosh, I didn't mean to ruffle the goth kids carefully dyed hair! Wonder if I can make it up to him by buying him a tube of black lip gloss the next time he is at Hot Topic.
Nah, seriously. I know that there are goths in other parts of the world. I have to admit though that I've never encountered one that wasn't white and middle to upper middle class. Then again, I've never encountered one that didn't give me a vacant look when I asked what sort of goth they were either. So, are you a Visigoth or an Ostragoth?
And answer me this, if goth's don't want to be noticed, like they so frequently pretend, why dress in such a manner that screams it? A little bit of advice, if you don't mind. If you aren't wanting to scream for attention, try not going out in public dressed like an extra for the Rocky Horror Picture Show. I thought you could use that advice, seeing as it seems to elude every single goth on the face of the planet. Now that you have enlightened me of the fact that you aren't seeking notice, I figured that bringing this minor oversight to your attention was the least that I could do in return.
I do tend to apply this same outlook to extreme body mod people as well. You tattoo your face, add 5 pounds of chrome, and don't expect anyone to look? Yeah, right!
Have a dreadfully miserable day.
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.
Sometimes " The Majority " only means that all the fools are on the same side.
There is a difference between knowing that what you do will make people look at you and doing something for the sake of making people look at you.
(also, I'm really not a goth.)
My Brand New Blog - Jesu Ad Nauseum.
God of the Gaps: As knowledge approaches infinity, God approaches zero. It's introductory calculus.
Ha! Sorry, Zymotic, but the term "goth" is so vacuous of any meaning that it inevitably becomes the epitome of whatever stereotypes you can derive from the group. An individual doesn't require anything in order to be a goth. However, the fact remains that most goths are white, wicken, wrist-cutting, wackos.
A lot of times, goths will describe themselves as free thinkers. Okay, free think this, "Why the **** do you have to wear black?"
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
I don't have a problem with the books, I just resent the double standard. It's apparently fine for teenage girls to dream about meeting a perfect, lifetime mate just as puberty's ending, but boys don't get fantasy novels where the main character gets to have orgiastic casual sex with his teachers, classmates, women from television and film and his friends' moms.
"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell
Workin' on it, dude.
Keep your pants on.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Well, it's not a problem for me these days. My pants are rarely on, for that matter. I just worry for the kids.
"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell
"Goth" is first and foremost a music scene, which is why you might have a problem classifying it by other means. Ever heard of Darkwave music?
Most of the goths I know are atheists and none of them are cutters. Furthermore, cutting either is part of a fetish or part of a problem-- neither are something to judge someone by.
My Brand New Blog - Jesu Ad Nauseum.
God of the Gaps: As knowledge approaches infinity, God approaches zero. It's introductory calculus.
Very true. As with any general social label. It's just a label that is usually assigned from people who are not a member of that group and it is generally based on whatever criteria they decide to attribute to it.
This whole goth discussion is odd. So far as I can tell there is one guy who apparently can't stop himself from his open disdain for the group (I can't figure out why he cares so much) and the other fellow who is apparently a member of the group and is sensitive about it.
Fin.
Whether or not these books are centered around a social group that has vague (at best) description is pretty irrelivant. The fact that the book describes sex before marriage as a bad thing is much more important. Or the relations between men and women (teens).