Is satin fire retardant?

Seems like such a waste to throw material away like that. I mean I don't like the feel of wool, but I wouldn't deny someone else wearing it.

Are chris-stains hard to get out of satin?

There's a marketing approach here. "Buy more satin; jesus freaks want to burn it."

At once, tell mom and dad you want to go to a school that doesn't have 'christian' in the name.

Is that what you learn in 8th grade?  I knew I should've stayed in school!

No wonder he's not listed in the phone book.

Yeah, well my friend said her god is even more loving and merciful -- and she's in the 9th grade!

I'm glad clovis Christian School endorses the alternate spelling of "satan".  As I've always said, "teach the controversy!"

Please do so.  We don't want them.

That's not a good enough excuse.  Go finish your homework!

Then again, people pay money to see home run derbies...

Really? 'U's only chance at getting into heaven is if I'm saved by Jesus?

Aw, man. This is a real burden you've put on my shoulders.

I mean, how do I even know what U wants? Maybe it's unimaginably chilly near the end of the Roman alphabet, and Hell would be a nice change of pace. Maybe it's the one vowel that's particularly scared of heights.

As you said, it's unlikely that U will even read this (it's a hard letter to get in contact with; being a vowel is busy business), so we can't exactly hold our collective breath waiting for it to answer for itself. In the interim, though, I think I'll keep my options open and not get saved by Jesus until I get a definite go-ahead.

Y'know. Just in case.

How do you know?

I feel so sorry for you.

You will probably be intellectually crippled for life.

(P.S. You misspelled SATAN!)

Heresy!!! Pay no attention to people and their false fabrics! There is only one true satin and Fredrick's of Hollywood is its prophet!

Eighth-Grade.

If she were 8 and typed that well then I'd leave her alone.

Good to read that you are happy and not hostile Asleigh, if you feel like your faith improves the quality of your life, who am I to try and take it away from you. Nor am I sad for you: happy people make me happy.

Just one minor thing: we all know the stories here- in fact I am pretty certain that every "non-theist" member of this forum has read the Bible (I dare even say: often more thoroughly then most christians!) , so I am afraid that telling us about how much Jesus loves us is not going to be the "clincher".

I do understand why you chose this approach though. A friend of mine who was once a very staunch christian, just like you, told me a story about how she was in hospital when she was a child. In the bed next to hers, there was a boy who was in terrible pain, and very sad. But my friend thought she had the solution: she would tell him about Jesus, and then all of his sadness would go away and maybe his pain would as well!

So she asked the boy "Have you heard about Jesus?". And to her astonishment the boy answered "Yes, I have, and no, I am not interested".

Well... and basically that goes for us as well. Yes, we know about the stories, we just do not believe that they are more real then the story about, say, Rudolf the Red-nosed Reindeer. But most of us are still rather happy, no worries there 

Do stick around this place if you like, though. You will not find people her who you will be able to convert- but what you wíll find is people who question éverything, including what they themselves think to be true. The only requirement, I think, is that you are prepared to ask questions and consider the answers. All of them. Even all the answers to all the questions that you ask yourself. That is called "Free Thinking", and some of the Free Thinkers on this site are religious and well-respected by most.

(And yes, there are also those who act like jerks against everybody who even has the smell of religion around them- just ignore those)

I have three modes of typed communication.  When I text from my phone, I take the shortcuts and use the abbreviations.  It's appropriate for that format, and was largely invented because of it.  When I'm writing inconsequential or light posts on message boards, I use a lot of "incorrect" grammar, and try to convey colloquial speech more than writing.  However, you better believe that if I want something to be taken seriously, I do my best to write with meticulous grammar and precise word usage.

I think it's kind of stodgy to think that language won't evolve as new uses for it become available.  Texting is part of life, and if "Wat r u doing 2nite?" is understood by both parties, it has served the purpose of language.  I don't think it's stodgy to insist on precision and accuracy in situations where they will add to understanding and take away the potential for confusion.

I did not mean to make a stab at anybody in this thread, so no worries didn't mean it personally 

But I dó think that many (maybe even most) people on RRS are often harsher then necessary sooner then necessary- to me this forum does seem less balanced now then I thought it was when I signed up a couple of months ago- sometimes I might even describe the atmosphere as "Looky 'ere, it's a theist, let's get 'em mateys!"- which is doubtless an excellent way to curb global warming- but it seems like few theists are contributing to the forum nowadays, except maybe through the occasional comment in the mailbag.

Which mostly leaves us to respond rationally to each other, and pat each other on the back about how clever and rational and unbelieving we are- and that is fine in a way, but somehow I doubt if that was the primary purpose of this whole forum.

Interesting...

The majority of what I see are "hit and run" theists who had no intention of contributing beyond their OP. The few that do stick around are to be commended.

I suspect this is of the former variety.

Are you saying it's the RRS's fault because "hit and run" theists make "hit and run" posts?

I don't necessarily believe theists should be smoked within seconds of their OP (pointing finger at myself also) but if one brings antagonism one shouldn't expect flowers in return.

The possibility that everything you had drummed into your head during your formative years is wrong is daunting - I agree.

When I'm arguing the nonsense of Scripture I work along the lines of the quotes by John Wesley:

1. "Nay, if there be any mistakes in the Bible, there may as well be a thousand. If there be one falsehood in that book, it did not come from the God of truth" (John Wesley, Journal, 24 July 1776).



2. "Nay, will not the allowing there is any error in Scripture, shake the authority of the whole?" (Works, Jackson ed., 9:150)

Usually, that's when I get "Oh, that's allegory" or "The writer didn't really mean that" or even "The fact that God can't be understood and the Bible makes no sense is what makes God so awesome and wonderful". Ick - nearly got diabetes from that last one but she is cute as all get out.

Most people here point out the logical mistakes only when the theist in question tries to use logic themselves and get it wrong.

I agree. However, I see a difference in sending through the contact form and signing up for membership.

I also think it's crazy to think that everyone 'should' react in the same manner to new posters. We're here to get their attention. Our ideology's very existence is an affront to them prior to logging in. Short version: They're angry already that we live.

One of their own, Greg Lukianoff, chairman/president of F.I.R.E. once wrote:

 In Lukianoff's paragraph, substitute 'internet' for 'colleges and universities' and you have my opinion. Personally, I consider that an endorsement of the way the site works including the 'done correctly' part. There is a line and quite a few, almost everyone, has crossed it in the past, present, and will again in the future.

That's where the mods come into the picture. If something consistently chases people away, we notice. If responses become 'obnoxious' and/or 'canned', we notice. Even our own.

Thus the reason I read responses to my responses. It isn't just theists that we encourage to engage in introspection. If there are ever tenets to freethought then I think that should be one.

You may not know it Ashleigh but your cosy notion of a father and son living together in a place called heaven would one day have had you put to a rather hideous death at the hands of ... well, to put it bluntly, christians.

It's all to do with being seen to separate the entities of the trinity, something christian theologians got very tetchy about around the time of the Council of Nicaea when a guy called Arius was more or less saying what you just said in your post (he would have been a great fan of preaching about lakes of fire and all that stuff too). Arius got off lightly - a broken nose and excommunication, but many of his followers did not. Too late for them when the theologians then decided that maybe such a literal representation of the godhead wasn't too bad after all (especially as it was one Constantine seemingly understood and liked), and pretty much too late for Arius too who allegedly died the day before his old mates were due to let him back into the club.

That's the problem with the particular theology your elders have indoctrinated you into - it hasn't quite been the uninterrupted continuation of a single religious vision it pretends to be. Far from it in fact. And along the way it has given succour and meaning - not to the poor and disadvantaged of humanity it purports to - but to every shade of bigotry, malice, control freakery, cruelty (bordering or often exceeding sadism),  and indeed all the unbridled greed and ambition humanity also has an unfortunate habit of producing with equal regularity. The christian story is one of the attachment of religion to political and social control, and if you're still young enough to think that such a relationship can be conducted without either or both parties to it being corrupted on the way then I can only wish that what is left to you of your rational faculties after your indoctrinators are finished with them survives long enough for you to see for yourself the error of your childish faith in your assumptions and their teachings. Sadly both these things are indistinguishable from each other, and that in itself should ring alarm bells in your own mind.

Somewhere buried in all the christian teachings - which your callous assumption that all those not in agreement with you will burn in hell for eternity suggests you have a problem truly understanding - is the advice to be empathic rather than judgemental. It is at once the most important (probably the only important) element of christianity as a philosophy which has any lasting worth to the individual who truly understands it, and at the same time the one christian instruction which christian instructors most singularly contradict through their own actions, so quick as they are to presume their doctrine prevails over all others and that their prejudicial judgement of others therefore carries authority. It doesn't. It only carries the proofs of their own insecurities and their tendency to victimise.

But you're young yet. Hopefully you'll see that bit for yourself too.

In the meantime you have both my sympathy and my earnest good wishes. I remember my own teens well enough to recall that it didn't take much to undermine my confidence and my badly constructed vision of the world I lived in, or the angst and insecurities engendered by finding that the same world threw up infinitely more questions than it ever provided answers for. It took me many years to realise that this of course was in fact where its beauty lay, and its ugliness always resided in or near those neatly packaged and trite ready-made "answers" which are the preserve of dishonest politicians (all too plentiful) and so-called theologians (even more plentiful).

But I was lucky compared to you - I did not need to divest myself of indoctrination first. Good luck!

This is the funniest type of religious argument IMO, and you see it quite often. It's the "really does" argument. God "really does" exist. Followed up with another top 10 hit: the one where they list what you already know they believe.

"there's a father and a son and a holy spirit and they live in Heaven"? Oh, now that you put it that way, I'm convinced!

All you guys suck.

Has noone realized that there is at least a medium chance that an entire christian school has a campaign going to send out letters to atheists and defeat their arguments, as well as make us out to be pricks? Making fun of a spelling error isn't going to help our case.

Hello Ashleigh. That's an interesting spelling of your name.

The problem, Ashleigh, is that none of this is fact. It is all a bunch of old stories that were written in a 500-600 year old book that was written by men who did not speak to any god, unless it was in their own imagination. I know it can seem to have a power that you can relate to, but in reality it is merely a way for other people to control what you say and do throughout your life. I hope you are strong enough to fight through it, and reach the real truth.

Did you know that christians have thought this day was coming soon for some 2000 years? When exactly is soon anyway?

That's very nice of you, but hell doesn't exist. So you don't have anything to worry about.

And in reciprocation, we will be thinking for you, even though we don't know you. At least, until you can start thinking for yourself.

That would require god and/or jesus to present themselves to me and prove their existence. Seeing as how that hasn't happened yet, I am not going to hold my breath waiting.

I'm very happy to hear you say that christians aren't better than anyone. I'll be even happier if you actually mean it, but in my experience such is not the case.

I am a proud Canadian and I have no belief in a god. I have no need for one either. I accept responsibility for my own actions without blaming an invisible entity. I don't accept that I was born a criminal without having a say in the matter. I will not be punished for something I had no affect on. And therefore, I will always see your god as evil. I hope you will one day too. Have a good day!

I wish I'd been as big minded as you are when I was in the 8th, SevenScarletSharks. It's true, you are better than me.

But you really should try not to upper case words like jesus, god and christian.

Ashleigh, the old testament is partly a Jewish history book, partly a cultural diatribe and mostly a weft of outright myth.

The new testament was written in Greek by nobody knows who. Its assertions are unprovable, it's unsupported historically.

It's miracles are unrepeatable in the laboratory. I always thought if jesus had really wanted

to make a point for the ages he could have stood the great pyramids on their points. But no.

There were more than 50 historians writing at that time and none of them mentions

the king of the Jews.

Ashleigh - why not start by trying to find proof of Jesus outside the bible? And outside books

written by christians? If you do you will find a couple of huge fabrications (Josephus) and a bunch

of references that could be about anybody in historians like Tacitus. 

Even if you look at the new testament you'll have huge questions. Some of this stuff is written

as an eyewitness account when jesus was all alone, 60-100 years later, in a foreign language. What???

The garden of eden. Snakes don't have lips and cannot forms words, despite the harry potter thing.

And how can god be said to have forgiven us when he allegedly punished jesus on the cross?

The weirdness and confusion in the text goes on and on. Born to a virgin? The son of god? A holy ghost?

It's comic book stuff and would be laughable if not dangerous. And think about all those fossils.

Did Satan put them there?

When you think about it, all those old time biblical writers, and some of this stuff dates back thousands of years

before Jesus is meant to have lived, had absolutely no idea what they were talking about.

Every event had supernatural portents. Lightning, thunder, earthquake, eclipses, droughts.

But like us today, those people were just big plains monkeys and relied on their 5 terrestrial senses.

They were the same as we are - just as limited and even more fearful. They talked to god same as any ham TV evangelist.

Consider the issue of free will. At what age can someone be said to have developed a level of comprehension that

gives them free will? And does threatening some one with eternal torment short circuit free will entirely?

Given your explanation of the near future including the casting of Satan and all non-believers into a lake of fire, the message of Jesus is "Love me or you're dead".

Given this, do you feel truly free to ignore his message or do you feel threatened?

This sprawling post reflects my limited, hippity-hop brain. But even some one like me can find hundreds of reasons to

believe there is no god. That we are apparently alone. That we may never know the answers. And that this is more

wonderful by far, than any religion can ever be.

Ashleigh, at your age, I believed those very same things.  If you honestly value truth -- and I bet you do -- I urge you to keep and open mind and to value reason and evidence.  If your beliefs are true, they will be supported by reason and evidence.  If not, then I hope you have the courage to pursue truth.