John F Kennedy, and the assassination thereof
Offline ...Okay, has anyone here who knows ballistics fairly well looked at the evidence presented by both second-shooter proponents and lone gunman proponents? If you have, what conclusion do you feel the evidence most likely leads to?
I'm generally dismissive of conspiracy theories in general, but there does appear to be compelling evidence (from a layman's perspective, anyway) for a second shooter hitting Kennedy from the front (...including, apparently, that the wound at the rear of Kennedy's skull was declared an exit wound upon examination by Dr. Robert McClelland?)
I'm also generally surprised at what appears to be a lack of physical evidence on the side of proponents for the lone gunman proposal (perhaps I'm not not looking at the better information channels), especially when compared to that presented by proponents for two gunmen.
Further information / resources would be awesome. 
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
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Oswald was the only shooter. This "consperacy" has been debunked over and over and over and deserves to be in the same garbage binn as the Davinchi Code and Loc Ness.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I don't know where I stand on this.
I believe there was a conspiracy to have JFK killed - too many people benefited for me to think otherwise.
I don't think there was more than one shooter.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Occham's Razor pretty much takes care of any "consperacy". We know Oswald's history, his financial and mental problems. Add to that the fact that the books on this "case" have been open 40+ years. There would be no reason at this late date to cover up anything.
Oswald was simply a nut who wanted to make is mark in a horrible way. If he killed a private citizen you wouldn't call it a consperiacy anymore than the Colimbine killers were a consperiacy.
With all the time that has passed and the government investigation and Oswald's personal problems, it is obvious what happened.
If you believe that Oswald was part of something bigger, I'll have you know that I was analy probed by the little green men that Tom Cruise claims that brought us Jesus.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Think about Hinkly. Certianly Reagan had global enemies since he was part of the cold war erra, but since he didn't die like JFK, Hinkly was seen for what he was, a nutcase.
One of the Manson clain tried to take a shot at Ford, and she too, was seen for what she was, A NUT.
The JFK myth was born out of the grandious "Camalot" motif. How can a Knight be picked off by a mere peasent? If a leader is to die, especially one that we love, they have to be marytered for a bigger cause, rather than a meaningless crime.
This crap is mere psychobabble gobbled up by gullible people who want something to be there when there isn't.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I didn't say Oswald was a part of the conspiracy beyond being a nut who created a situation that one could take advantage of.
Are you saying that people didn't benefit from JFK's death? I can think of several: LBJ, the wealthy who were being taxed at what they believed was a confiscatory level., etc.
I think people wanted him dead. Oswald was a nut with his own problems that saved those people money.
As for Reagan - he had enemies only if you assume he actually did anything about the Soviets. I'm not one of those people.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
One of the biggist peices of shit that JFK nuts like to sell, is the famous and FALSE claim of the "zig zag" bullet. (Famously poked fun of in the Seinfeld sitcom the "zig zag spit" episode.
One shot went through JFK and hit the passanger in the front seat. The consperacy nuts claim that the bullet couldnt hit JFK and then magically angle down and hit the guy in the front seat.
What honest historians know about that particular vehical is that the BACK SEATS were raised higher than the front seats which would make the angle a strieght line which makes both being hit quite a reality.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
true, i really do feel that this is one of the few conspiracy theories that has some backing... and Brian its not the angle that you are referring to that many people i know argue about but that the bullet that went into his head and came out at a different angle that they argue about.
Personally myself i think Oswald did it, but i think that there may have been others involved to make sure he got the job done...
finally i leave you with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_Reloaded#Reaction
http://www.cool.com.au/computers-technology/personal-computers/jfk-reloaded-revisited-20060414256/
the second website is where you can download the game from.
I have yet to see anyone get the 1000 score...
Brian is right on this. It's been debunked time and time again. People who believe there is a conspiracy and they know what happened just want to feel smart or special. They've done ballistic test shots with results so close to the footage it's scary. All of the evidence I've seen leads exclusively to Oswald in the Book Depository Building. That is short of the hand of God.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
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Two things:
A) That game is fucking rad.
B) That game has more or less conclusively settled it for me. Oswald could easily have shot JFK from the window, using 3 bullets. Hell, I was nailing him with 1-2 half the time.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
LOL! but were you nailing him within the parameters of the game? Whats your best score so far? My best one that i have gotten is 500, but i usually play to just cause mass panic, so i put it on so that there is a large motorcade and i just start shooting the drivers of the vehicles thus causing them to go out of control and make them run into each other killing everyone in the vehicles.
Well, when actually trying to reach the params, I got 583 on my first try. Miss (I have to intentionally miss), hit + injured Kennedy & Connolly, Brain-splattered Kennedy. More or less exactly what happened, but the simulation demands I hit the anatomy EXACTLY as prescribed (bogus for two reasons: A) the simulation is shitty at registering what part of the anatomy gets hit, B) demanding that you place the bullets *exactly* where Oswald placed them is unreasonable. It's like saying that if you and I both knock a pen off of our desks, it should land in exactly the same way or it's proof that you can't knock pens off of your desk. )
Meeting the basic parameter is actually extremely easy, IMHO (maybe I've just been playing too much Battlefield: 2 lately.
), and killing Kennedy irregardless from that angle is a laughable challenge. Hell, the only thing that's amazing (given the amount of collateral damage I often do) is that Kennedy was the only person who was killed. Connolly, Jacquie, the driver & the front passenger were extremely lucky that afternoon).
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
I can usually get around 500 if I miss intentionally for one of the shots. The most difficult part for me is not braining the governer. My usual strategy is to compensate with the sight to shoot through the governer's torso so the bullet will go through and hit Kennedy in the chest, and then brain Kennedy with the second bullet (which, if done correctly, gives a visually pleasing "exploded back of head" look) and finally, to miss with the remaining shot.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
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As something of a nice extra touch, Jacquie will actually do a neat animation where she reaches out onto the back of the limo (as she did in the real scenario) if you explode Kennedy's head at around the correct stretch in the road.
Apparently the highest score submitted for the contest held by the game's designers was around 700 points.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
This game is addictive due to the realistic mayhem you can create.
1 bullet.
Nailed Kennedy in the back of the head. The bullet went through his brain and struck the driver in the heart.
The car spun out of control and slammed into a tree, killing Jackie, Connolly and his wife, and the agent inside. When another agent ran toward the car, he was run over as it recoiled from the tree.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
Oswald did not do it - check out the videos by Robert Groden. Also, check out the videos featuring Mark Lane on you tube. Too many witnesses showing more than one shooter.
Lets say for the sake of argument that there was a second and third shooter. Where the fuck did they learn to shoot? The ballistic evedence showed a couple shot's fired from the same location. If there were other shooters, they couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace
Something really fun:
Just after the car has passed in front of the tree directly in front of the window and to the right, shoot the driver. If the car goes careening out of control at that point (sometimes it just stops dead), it will go barrelling up that hill in your screenshot, get air, and roll right over the barrier onto the train tracks - spilling-out all of it's occupants.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940