HolisticWisdom wrote:

Free-Will doesn't exist. Period.

What disappointment me is when an atheist or agnostic claim Free-Will exist. I would expect such a claim from a theist.

Without explicit qualification words: "God", "Allah", "Bhagban" , "Free-Will", "Hell", "Heaven" have some default minimum attributes (and thoughts) attached to it. Some of those attributes (meaning and their implication - chain of logic) are contradictory. None of these words can be defined/understood logically, coherently, consistently and therefore, we are (correct) consistent to reject any and all of these words or thoughts behind those word.

One may try to redefine God or Free-Will in such a way to keep it consistent with the chain of logic but in the process the new milder, compromised, much foggier definition/thought behind these words kills the original concept of God or Free Will.

Learning/understanding the truth that "Free-Will doesn't exist" doesn't change the laws of the countries, morality, ethics, punishment and reward or anything else. Non existence of free-will and morality, punishment-rewards are not contradictory.

In a deterministic world the future is predictable. Obviously, there is no chance of free-will there.

But when you bring in the implication of quantum mechanics that says a single radioactive atom can decay any time. The timing of the decay is unpredictable. Single radioactive atom can decay any time it wishes without any external or internal reason. That makes the universe unpredictable.

But the timing of the decay is not determined by my brain or anything else in this universe. Therefore, even in an un-deterministic universe we do not have free will.

While it might be fun rehashing the centuries old Christian debate of free will vs predetermination it is an exercise in mental masturbation.

For us the issue is the idea of predetermination only appears after the invention of an omni-everything god is invented. A corellary of this is a "divine plan" even though subject to revision from microsecond to microsecond if not more frequently.

Your mention of quantum mechanics is the answer. Radioactive decay is a method of genetic mutation which is a factor in evolution.

Lets say a hundred million years ago a stray cosmic ray causes a fatal mutation in a dino egg. If it had lived and reproduced then ninety generations later a particular population of individuals of that species would exist. Without that individual likely the same numbers and range and behavior of the population would exist but all the individuals in it would be different.

That is interesting but wholly academic. This is not stepping on a butterfly leading to a disappointing movie. This is not any kind of noticeable change at all. Nothing changes except different individuals make up the species.

In human terms 90 generations is by one measure 3000 years, by others only 1500 years. Since this is just a numbers game lets go with 3000 years. Because a particular person was born the human populaton contains the individuals it has today. If that person had not been born an entirely different set of individuals would constitute the human race.

And that person need not even survive to have children. It simply needs have a different life no matter how short. Consider if a different one of the millions of sperm reaches an egg the child is different. Because of that all future generations are different. In enough generations it spreads through the entire human race so that today every individual is a different person.

And all of that from one random radioactive decay.

The next level question is, once a person is born can he have made a different choice at a particular moment? We cannot replay history. We cannot know. We do know decision making varies from frivolous to extremely serious. Methodology varies from a coin toss which is close enough to random to one of the many forms of rigorous to force of competing personalities or simply the presence of a leader.

Why all this choice? The Omni-everything god only brings it up in context of choosing to follow the law or to "sin." Fact is choice of pizza toppings is also free will and also has consequences, if a different sperm reaches the egg the world is different. If the spices in pepperoni instead of ground beef raises the body temperature (or vice versa) the sperm are going to be "randomized" and a different one will most certainly reach the egg.