Personal god versus universal intelligence (Rising Sun)
Offline Personal god versus universal intelligenceI don't understand why there is so much disagreement when it comes to the belief in a universal intelligence. When it comes down to the belief that there is a personal god answering our prayers, I can see why this is utterly contradictory to scientific observation. But does this exclude the possibility of a universal force that is the underlying cause of all that exists? I certainly did not create myself, nor did anyone create his or her personal attributes. I am me not because I am the author of me. I beleive we are an expression of a creative force that lies beyond our immediate understanding, but just because we cannot see this force does not mean that this force does not exist? And just because my definition of god is different than your definition, does not mean that my definition is necessarily untrue. Don't you agree?
Please continue here. :3
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
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Offline The Doomed Soul wrote:ooh! oh! me next! do me next!
There are things I never get tired of hearing.
Somethin' for the Fellas (That Like the Fellas)
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."
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Offline testing
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."
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Offline I cant believe we are physically able to post newgrounds shit on here! 
... and i cant believe Gene just posted that of all things >.<
What Would Kharn Do?
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Offline and then i broke it while he was altering it... you'll all thank me later... except for maybe Clockcat...
What Would Kharn Do?
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Offline and then i broke it while he was altering it... you'll all thank me later... except for maybe Clockcat...
So that is what happened. Now I can't edit the post again. But yah, I know the trick to vreaking the newgrounds locks.
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."
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Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."
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Offline Size is a little big... and i can see it being taken down for autoload properties...
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Offline His Definition of 'Love' is still the best line to ever come from anything that even once possibly stood close to being in the presence of anything bearing the 'Star Wars' Logo.
When you say it like that you make it sound so Sinister...
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Offline His Definition of 'Love' is still the best line to ever come from anything that even once possibly stood close to being in the presence of anything bearing the 'Star Wars' Logo.
Sarcasm: I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about
(Only decent one with decent audio, video sucks though... )
What Would Kharn Do?
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Offline Rising Sun wrote:Personal god versus universal intelligenceI don't understand why there is so much disagreement when it comes to the belief in a universal intelligence. When it comes down to the belief that there is a personal god answering our prayers, I can see why this is utterly contradictory to scientific observation. But does this exclude the possibility of a universal force that is the underlying cause of all that exists? I certainly did not create myself, nor did anyone create his or her personal attributes. I am me not because I am the author of me. I beleive we are an expression of a creative force that lies beyond our immediate understanding, but just because we cannot see this force does not mean that this force does not exist? And just because my definition of god is different than your definition, does not mean that my definition is necessarily untrue. Don't you agree?
Please continue here. :3
What Rising Sun doesn't realize is that both a personal and non-personal god
PERSONIFY something to be God.
How fucking complicated is this for any bone-head to understand.
What's your fucking need for a god, pea-brain!
You Pantheists accomplish the idiotic by simply redefining English. You call nature, "God". What fucking retarded reason is there for doing that!
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Offline Quote:Doesn't everything come from our brains?In terms of emotional states and anything involving thought, yeah.
Quote:What I am saying is that regardless of what a person believes, his thoughts come from his brain. But does this mean that people who have a feeling that there is something else out there are only the result of brainwaves that create patterns? I don't think so.Your first point: correct.
Your second: incorrect. If, as you've said (we're in agreement) ALL mental states come from the brain- that means that the patterns which we see, regardless of whether or not they really do represent actual patterns, come from our brains as well.
Yes, all the feelings that something else is out there IS the result of brainwaves and pattern creation. Unless you want to argue for some kind of dualism. Good luck on that; if metaphysics hasn't been able to even coherently define the 'other side' for millenia, I'm afraid you're not in such good shape.
I guess we can conclude that ALL the feelings that tell us something is not out there are also the result of brainwaves and pattern creation, so it doesn't tell us anything more than what we already suspected; we cannot prove or disprove the existence of god through this channel.
I am not saying that I believe there is some entity 'out there'.
My mistake... I did forget that pantheism argues for the full immanence of the supernatural in the natural. Sort of an equating, in a way.
Then I am definitely not a pantheist because I don't believe in the supernatural, and therefore I don't believe in the full immanence of the supernatural in the natural.
Nah, what makes you a pantheist is your belief in some sort of force or energy that suffuses everything- and which you call 'god.' Definitely pantheism.
I do not believe in an external force which is controlling the universe. That doesn't even come close to what I believe god to mean. I'd like to know the difference between pantheism and naturalism. I think I am closer to being a naturalist than a pantheist. I do not ascribe to dualism, therefore I am not arguing for the existence of anything outside of the material, natural world.
There are newer forms of Pantheism, such as Scientific
Pantheism that are not as focused on the mystical shit that Spinoza wrote about.
Nevertheless, Einstein's "god letter" summed up some of my feelings about gods, religions and Pantheism quite well.
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Awfully vague. Even for a definition of a god.
I'm trying to make a distinction between a personal god and a force that controls everything from the laws of the solar system to the laws that distinguish us from animals. These laws I call god. I am not religious per se, although I have a belief that we are being guided by this intelligence. I don't pray, I don't go to church, I am very secular but I do have a faith that our world was not created by chance alone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
I would say you follow Pantheism fairly clearly.
ooh! oh! me next! do me next!
Yup. Textbook non-personal pantheism. I know you were trying to put up a definition, but... eh... pantheism somehow manages to be even more vague than the idea of an interventionist god.
Of course we every once in a while may think there's 'something' else 'out there....' but it's just a feeling. The human brain makes patterns- often excessively- and your god is really not much more than this trend. Which is not to say that it can't be really life-changing and humbling and all that. Just that it all comes from your brain.
I don't know where you've been. Where's my Purell?
I think this is what he's getting at:
Doesn't everything come from our brains? I don't want to get into a metaphysical argument at this point. What I am saying is that regardless of what a person believes, his thoughts come from his brain. But does this mean that people who have a feeling that there is something else out there are only the result of brainwaves that create patterns? I don't think so. I am not saying that I believe there is some entity 'out there'. I guess I am a pantheist, if this word is defined as the belief that we are all part of an order that can be termed life.
There are things I never get tired of hearing.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
In terms of emotional states and anything involving thought, yeah.
Your first point: correct.
Your second: incorrect. If, as you've said (we're in agreement) ALL mental states come from the brain- that means that the patterns which we see, regardless of whether or not they really do represent actual patterns, come from our brains as well.
Yes, all the feelings that something else is out there IS the result of brainwaves and pattern creation. Unless you want to argue for some kind of dualism. Good luck on that; if metaphysics hasn't been able to even coherently define the 'other side' for millenia, I'm afraid you're not in such good shape.
My mistake... I did forget that pantheism argues for the full immanence of the supernatural in the natural. Sort of an equating, in a way.
Nah, what makes you a pantheist is your belief in some sort of force or energy that suffuses everything- and which you call 'god.' Definitely pantheism.
OMFG! ClockCat is a top. No f'in way.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
I accept your challenge!
( ... hmm appears to not be the real one, but close enough!)
What Would Kharn Do?
I go back and forth, it depends on who the other person is.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
/sigh... the extent i will go, for self amusement...
Now if only i could wipe that search off my youtube account -_-
What Would Kharn Do?
Hmm... how to beat Giant, Blue, 8bit, Wang...?
I got it!
Finishing pancake!
Well played... well played...
*Ahem* Gentlemen...
Going to be tough to beat that... i shall have to ponder this thoroughly...
I shall match cheap costumes with cheap costumes!
...wonder if Kevin knows anything about this... o_O?
What Would Kharn Do?
Shit, how do you post vids here D:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHo0rJC5t-o
Copy embedded code
Insert edit Flash icon in the bar above
Paste it
Manually insert size
and bingo
(probably easier... but this is the only way i can get it to work on my IE... )
What Would Kharn Do?
thanks
They made a movie about what you are talking about. It is called Star Wars....the "force"
"Take all the heads of the people
and hang them up before the Lord
against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4
Marshal, this forum has rules, ok...? Thall shalt not rerail a derailed thread... or something
So... since Starwars was mentioned, in the spirit of this thread, i hereby submit
Clockcat started it, blame him! >.<
What Would Kharn Do?
To what end? And who do we register our displeasure with for the awful job being done?
How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais
In terms of emotional states and anything involving thought, yeah.
Your first point: correct.
Your second: incorrect. If, as you've said (we're in agreement) ALL mental states come from the brain- that means that the patterns which we see, regardless of whether or not they really do represent actual patterns, come from our brains as well.
Yes, all the feelings that something else is out there IS the result of brainwaves and pattern creation. Unless you want to argue for some kind of dualism. Good luck on that; if metaphysics hasn't been able to even coherently define the 'other side' for millenia, I'm afraid you're not in such good shape.
I guess we can conclude that ALL the feelings that tell us something is not out there are also the result of brainwaves and pattern creation, so it doesn't tell us anything more than what we already suspected; we cannot prove or disprove the existence of god through this channel.
My mistake... I did forget that pantheism argues for the full immanence of the supernatural in the natural. Sort of an equating, in a way.
Then I am definitely not a pantheist because I don't believe in the supernatural, and therefore I don't believe in the full immanence of the supernatural in the natural.
I do not believe in an external force which is controlling the universe. That doesn't even come close to what I believe god to mean. I'd like to know the difference between pantheism and naturalism. I think I am closer to being a naturalist than a pantheist. I do not ascribe to dualism, therefore I am not arguing for the existence of anything outside of the material, natural world.