Figuring things out
Offline So for those that haven't seen my exchange with Hamby in the past day or two, something came out of it, but not what Hamby thinks.
Mainly, it got me questioning my beliefs as per this topic, it made me realize something: That I was doing what I was ragging on Hamby for doing. That everytime somebody was asking me to back up my claims, I was simplying avoiding the scientific method and merely going "Well, it's obvious" and was baffled as to how they can't see what I was saying.
Then Hamby posted his blog a few days later I saw it. After all, if I refuse to let Hamby use the shady/vague techniches, then how could I? I realized that the method of dismissing it as "obvious" could be used to prove pretty much anything.
It just hit me today at work, how can I stress that in order to make a positive claim, you should apply the scientific method and not rely on anecdotes or vague data, then going out and doing it myself.
So I now realize that in order to make a positive claim such as God exists I need scientific data and that means peer reviewed studies and not anecdotes, I cannot merely say it's obvious and I don't have to prove it in the same way I don't have to prove people eat hot dogs at baseball games.
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Does this mean you are finnaly coming out as a full blown atheist?
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
You didn't realize this before?.....Are you serious?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
I didn't realize that I was doing what was in the OP, I've known the scientific method for a long time.
Cpt_pineapple...I have some very bad news for you.
Your logic genie is out of its bottle. And--this is the voice of experience talking, here--it won't go back in...ever.
I will await the news of you joining us more fully. Until then, be of good health and good cheer.
Conor
This will almost definitely sound underhanded, but can I help? The reason I'd want to help is my standard MO -- I like trying on ideas to see if they make it or not. I tried libertarianism on, and that failed, but I think it would be pretty entertaining to attempt to make a scientific context for a specific God ... thing.
So where do we start? The hypothesis for "exists" is a tough one. I mean, if we had a mathematical model that needed adjusting ... hey, why don't we say that God is dark matter? Hmm? Or another one of those odd pieces of the big bang puzzle? Can we start there? Or did you want to start with the very small?
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
We accept her! We accept her! One of us! One of us! Gooble gobble, gooble gobble! One of us! One of us!
My Brand New Blog - Jesu Ad Nauseum.
God of the Gaps: As knowledge approaches infinity, God approaches zero. It's introductory calculus.
Scientific data is simply data that was derived through the scientific method. Data is any proposition assumed or given, from which conclusions may be drawn. The data does not need to be peer reviewed; all peer reviewed papers were at one time not reviewed. Not all arguements need data. To prove a claim, you merely need to provide a sound valid argument.
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
You might be surprised how seldom I expect anything to come from a discussion like that one. So you're correct... I'm surprised, but not because what you got is different from what I expected.
Ahem... well... there's still some debate to be had here. Perhaps a little distance from this topic will shed some light on it. Perhaps for me, perhaps for you, but I'm not sure I'm willing to grant that drawing a causal line from believing that atrocity is good to committing atrocity is the same as proposing an undefinable entity and calling it likely.
In any case, I'm glad you've seen the error of your ways. You may not realize or believe this, but you've already forced me to reconsider and ultimately change some of my beliefs about the impact of religion on people's perceptions of reality. You may not be able to tell a difference, and if you can't it's my fault for being less than precise in earlier articles. Still, I have narrowed and focused my claims about what religion specifically causes, and how it does so.
So... (the sixty four thousand dollar question)...
Are you properly called a weak atheist now? That is, in the absence of any peer-reviewed science or a coherent definition, do you hold that there's nothing to either believe in or not, which reverts you automatically to dis-belief in a deity?
If not, do you still hold your belief in a god-thingy without evidence, but just believe you can prove it with science once you figure out what it is?
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Wait, a minute is that why you are focusing on prayer?
I ask because I thought you were going to do a bait and switch and say because it causes prayer, that it causes the other things you are talking about, by saying since religion can cause behaviour therefore it causes the astrocities without you having to prove that it was the religion.
Or that because you don't need peer-review for religion causing prayer, you thus don't need peer-review for religion and astrocities.
Which is why I responded the way I did.
Maybe you meant atrocities
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Ahhhh this is the "epiphany" you were talking about in the other thread.
Captain, we are thrilled that you are now seeing what many of us have been saying along. BUT, do not set yourself up to boomerange.
We are not all eggheads here, certainly not me. In fact I get quite ticked at people when I explain basic concepts and get accused of being Einstein.
I am nowhere near a scientist. I couldn't even do a fraction if you put a gun to my head today. BUT, when we say scientific method is important, we mean it in that it is the best universal tool humans can learn that has no bias. HUMANS have bias, but scientific method is not a person or an emotion, but a process.
In laymen's terms all it means is to put data in, compare it and falsify it in a step by step manor. Like following the instructions on how to put your kid's bike together at Christmas: "Insert bolt A into hole B" ....next
There is no atheist here that lacks emotions or bias anymore than a theist does. Scientific method is not a scientific field itself, but what scientists us as a tool.
It is why a Christian, atheist, Muslim, Jew and Buddhist can all sit in the same classroom/ lab and learn about mitosis, or DNA.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Wait. This is going to turn out better than that did, right?
Oh and BTW....
Geek.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.
What the fuck are you guys talking about?
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
South Park semi-recently resurrected a quote from THIS in THIS episode.
*Steals geek title, runs.*
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Sorry, Will. I don't know if they ever translated that movie into Canadian.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.
How is it that you get me every time with that shit? I swear I laugh out loud at every retarded Canadian one-liner, and it amazes me that I never see it coming.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to translate an American movie into Canadian? You have to get the cast to come back in to the audio studio and drop their American accents.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Interesting how it was a Canadian who actually exposed the material in the first place...
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
That's the ONLY reason I do it. Oh. And Pineapple is canadian too. Zombie spends his time on the news feeds.
Except for old kung-fu movies where they just dub in the "eh?" part.
OR they yank out a few teeth from an english-speaking frenchman and get him to do the voices.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.
Bastard! Every time.
Hey, it fits the Chinese better! It's like the creepy grunting that goes on in anime over-dubs. What's with that? Do they actually do that in the Japanese version? (Maybe that's a question for Pineapple.)
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence