Should soldiers be allowed to go on strike?

Tapey
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Should soldiers be allowed to go on strike?

In south Africa currently we have soldiers on strike.  Forget weather they deserve more money as it is pointless, should they be allowed to regardless weather they deserve more money or not. Lets take America should for instance should the national guard be allowed to strike if they feel they are under paid?

 

on a side note, these are our soldiers, the people who would protect us if we were invaded, they are a joke.......

P.S. our police are very good at breaking up mobs. Plenty practise, normally one or to that need breaking up per month. Also does this crap happen where ever you are, the whole rubber bullets breaking up mobs  thing etc.

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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        In Canada and the  U.S. of eh?   it is illegal.           Can you imagine a picket line set up by the machinegunners local 291?   (J.C.1971)

 

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Its illegal here as well,

Its illegal here as well,  they continue doing it anyway. Only reason im not concerned well watch the video... run army ruuuuun! bad disapline in the army breaking ranks like that from rubber bullets.. pfft amateurs. I rate our police could take the army, something like 60% of our army has aids etc.


 

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  The only post-apartheid

  The only post-apartheid military outfit that I considered to have been a truly elite fighting unit was the merc outfit who called themselves Executive Outcomes.  They were a multi-racial PMC that was comprised of former South African Defense personel.


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Personally, we don't have

Personally, we don't have enough strikes in the US. In any career field.

The US bourgeoisie is very skilled in keeping their working class stupid, entertained, and economically imprisoned/impotent.

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OK, who wants to invade

OK, who wants to invade South Africa in the first place?  Even with a positive answer to that, are they worried about being repelled by the crack military that can be intimidated by their own police using rubber bullets and tear gas?

 

Seriously, with that type of national defense, you might as well ring the country with a line of big scary dogs and cross your fingers.

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now thats a little harsh, im

now thats a little harsh, im sure we could take zimbarbwe if really had to.  


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Interesting question. Of

Interesting question. Of course soldiers should be entitled to fair pay and benefits. And yet, the military is the ultimate in emergency services. It is fire, police, and health rolled into a super entity designed to defend a nation and its people. It also provides more search & rescue ops than any other institution.

They should therefore have similar right to strike as cops here do. Which is to say they would be limitted to job actions (refusal to do little things, but required to respond when life or property is at stake).

But then...unionising a military just wouldn't work. At least, not very well. One must depend on officers to defend the rank & file from politicians. Fortunately, that is rarely a problem, as moral in the military is always of concern to officers who depend on a happy(ish) rank & file.

/rambling

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Vastet wrote:Interesting

Vastet wrote:
Interesting question. Of course soldiers should be entitled to fair pay and benefits. And yet, the military is the ultimate in emergency services. It is fire, police, and health rolled into a super entity designed to defend a nation and its people. It also provides more search & rescue ops than any other institution. They should therefore have similar right to strike as cops here do. Which is to say they would be limitted to job actions (refusal to do little things, but required to respond when life or property is at stake). But then...unionising a military just wouldn't work. At least, not very well. One must depend on officers to defend the rank & file from politicians. Fortunately, that is rarely a problem, as moral in the military is always of concern to officers who depend on a happy(ish) rank & file. /rambling

No. Officers teach the soldiers to follow orders unquestioningly. Harsh penalties are involved for disobeying an order.

I'd buy the line that officers were supposed to defend the 'rank&file' from the politicians if it weren't for the fact that the money for the military must pass through the politicians' hands first. AND we must remember that here in the US(those nice fellows that keep Canada safe), the President is in charge of all military actions with the exception of declaring war. Thus the title 'Commander in Chief' THANKFULLY being held by Barack Obama currently.

That being said... If the military as a whole went on strike then it would make a hell of a difference. About 4 years ago, if the soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq had simply walked away leaving the countries to rebuild and govern themselves then we would know exactly where the Al-Quaeda bastards were and could effectively target the leaders from orbit sending in a 'Reaper' to dust off every smartass raghead espousing 'death to America and all infidles'. (believe it or not. That is not a run-on sentence.)

Personally, I would find it difficult to argue against a surgical strike on a certain site in Kansas. Posse Comitatus be damned. lol.

Yes. I know. I'm not being the 'I love everybody' kind of Josh tonight. Sorry. He's on strike.

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darth_josh wrote:we must

darth_josh wrote:

we must remember that here in the US(those nice fellows that keep Canada safe)

I thought that the Canadian military was pretty good. They are even a nuclear power. I think that the Canadians keep Canada safe.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/

http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/cms/1/1_eng.asp

In contrast, the US has nearly twice the number of ships in the Atlantic fleet alone- (There are a total of nine fleets)

Atlantic Fleet

 

I'm just sayin'...

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Our population is about 9X

Our population is about 9X the size of Canada's population and we spend more of a proportion of our income on our military than Canada spends on its. We have a far larger and far more powerful military. But, the Canadians are still doing pretty well for themselves. If you compare the Canadians to the most powerful military that the world has ever seen, then they fall short. That doesn't mean that their military isn't good. They are doing pretty well for themselves with their military; they just aren't doing anywhere as well as we are.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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Jormungander wrote:  

Jormungander wrote:

 

darth_josh wrote:
we must remember that here in the US(those nice fellows that keep Canada safe)

 

I thought that the Canadian military was pretty good. They are even a nuclear power. I think that the Canadians keep Canada safe.

 

Huh? What?

 

When you say that they are a nuclear power, what do you mean? They don't have the weapons that I would construe as being the condition on which the status of nuclear power hinges. Conversely, if you mean that they have a nuclear industry qualifies a nation as being a nuclear power, then the club is much larger that most observers normally consider.

 

That being said, Canada does have a nuclear industry that is capable of developing nuclear weapons in short order. Probably a couple dozen bombs in the first year alone if they decided to go that route. The base of Canadian scientists and engineers is well enough qualified that they could probably do that much without any help from the US. That and the rate of crossover of nuclear workers probably means that there are sufficient people in Canada who have already seen enough of our born secret info that it would be arguable that they really would have developed the science on their own.

 

Whatever on that though. The Canadian conventional military is pretty cool by itself. If memory serves, the current record for distance sniping is held by a Canadian serving in Afghanistan. That and they are rather well trained at winter combat, which happens to have been the decisive factor in a number of past wars.

 

For example, if matters came down to the need to invade Russia, well just consider the role of winter fighting in WW2. The Germans could not pull it off. The Canadians? Well, hopefully we will never find out but I would bet that they would have a substantial advantage that other nations would not be able to manage.

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My bad on the nukes. Canada

My bad on the nukes. Canada used to have them but they have been kind of nuke-free since 1984. For 24 years Canada had its own nuclear weapons, but they gave those to the US and now are nuke-free except when it comes to the US military flying nuclear armed planes over Canada or US ships with nukes on them porting in Canada.

Many of the raw materials that the US uses to build nukes come from Canada. Presumably they could start making nukes, they just don't want to. But, they are not currently a nuclear power.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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meh im glad South Africa

meh im glad South Africa destroyed all our nukes (think it was either the 1980s or 1960s not sure) I wouldn't want the people who cannot control our army to have there finger on the button. 

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Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
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Just to make up for our army

Just to make up for our army !EXPLOSIVE!


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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

 

For example, if matters came down to the need to invade Russia, well just consider the role of winter fighting in WW2. The Germans could not pull it off. The Canadians? Well, hopefully we will never find out but I would bet that they would have a substantial advantage that other nations would not be able to manage.

 

   An extremely informative book regarding warfare in Russian territory is titled Fighting In Hell, The German Ordeal On The Eastern Front.    It's a book by Peter G. Tsouras.    

   After the surrender of The Axis powers many high ranking German commanders who fought against the Russians were extensively interviewed by the US military.  The tactical information gleaned from the German commanders was cataloged and used as a future guideline for a potential war with the Soviets who were no longer an ally of the US. The book is a record of those interviews and offers the insights of those who were actually there.

    Interesting side note, the German military were instructed to regard the Slavic people as inferior in every way, including their ability to wage war.   After experiencing the viciousness of Soviet military engagements as well as the Russian's willingness to endure brutal hardships the German soldiers began to regard the Russian people as anything but inferior

  Even Russian women were inducted into the military and were engaged in frontline fighting aginst the Germans.  The women were not in support roles in any way.  Gender equality was the rule, not the exception.


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"No. Officers teach the

"No. Officers teach the soldiers to follow orders unquestioningly. Harsh penalties are involved for disobeying an order."

I never said or implied otherwise.

"I'd buy the line that officers were supposed to defend the 'rank&file' from the politicians if it weren't for the fact that the money for the military must pass through the politicians' hands first. AND we must remember that here in the US(those nice fellows that keep Canada safe), the President is in charge of all military actions with the exception of declaring war. Thus the title 'Commander in Chief' THANKFULLY being held by Barack Obama currently."

So much wrong. First of all, the US does NOT keep Canada safe. In point of fact, you actually have managed to INCREASE the likelyhood that we would be attacked directly or indirectly. And we can take care of ourselves thank you. In case you forgot, WE won at Normandy. WE conquered YOU. OUR military > yours. Eye-wink

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Secondly, if you don't think

Secondly, if you don't think it's in the interest of officers to keep the rank & file happy, then you don't know anything about the military. Politicians decide how much to spend, but Admirals decide where it goes. Things like providing entertainment for troops on duty. Singers, comedians, wrestling events, booze, etc.
When people stop signing up en masse, they also tend to increase wages and benefits to encourage recruits.

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Jormungander

Jormungander wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

we must remember that here in the US(those nice fellows that keep Canada safe)

I thought that the Canadian military was pretty good. They are even a nuclear power. I think that the Canadians keep Canada safe.

We and Japan are the only two nations I'm aware of who aren't exactly nuclear powers, because we don't have any nukes. But we can both be considered one because we could build a swarm of nukes in a month or two if we wanted to (comparable to your own, if not superior due to the age of some of your stock).

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Vastet wrote:Jormungander

Vastet wrote:
Jormungander wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

we must remember that here in the US(those nice fellows that keep Canada safe)

I thought that the Canadian military was pretty good. They are even a nuclear power. I think that the Canadians keep Canada safe.

We and Japan are the only two nations I'm aware of who aren't exactly nuclear powers, because we don't have any nukes. But we can both be considered one because we could build a swarm of nukes in a month or two if we wanted to (comparable to your own, if not superior due to the age of some of your stock).

A. Because you would just call the queen to find out when to use them.

B. As with small children, we try to keep dangerous objects away.

C. Location Location Location. Too close to us to trust.

D. We already smuggle cigarettes, booze, and drugs to and from your country as easily as anyone can imagine. Job of a lifetime: Canadian Border Guard. A little nuclear stuff no prob.

E. Where exactly did the draft dodging anti-vietnam war/anti-american people go in the '70s? There's got to be a lot of chips on a lot of shoulders passed to their kids.

F. Your truck drivers come down here and expect us to speak french-canadian... I don't think they print the instructions to build nuclear weapons in that language.

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Too fun, too easy. A: We

Too fun, too easy.

A: We don't have to. We appoint a rep for things like that. A Canadian rep. She's cute too!

B: Hmm

C: And how bad did you get screwed over your location? Too hot, Mexicans constantly crashing the party, no good weed, and you get pummelled by hurricanes, tornadoes, and earthquakes...

D: You're looking the wrong way. We have no desire for your watered down booze, hackfest smokes with no flavour, or piss poor quality drugs. That's why WE send more than half our crops to YOU!

E: Very effective when we can conscript from your military. Or it would be, but ours is trained better. Smiling

F: Lol. What about your Spanish-American drivers? You have nothing. Sticking out tongue

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Tapey wrote:meh im glad

Tapey wrote:
meh im glad South Africa destroyed all our nukes (think it was either the 1980s or 1960s not sure) I wouldn't want the people who cannot control our army to have there finger on the button.

 

Actually, you disarmed in February 1991, although it would not be until t 6th of September before the last of your seven bombs was dismaltled.

 

Also, it is simply not true that Canada ever developed their own nuclear weapons. They provided plutonium for the British and the reactor that India used to cook up the plutonium for their first test in the early 70's. However, the bombs that were in Canada were all stamped Made in USA and they were dual keyed so that Canada could not set them off without permission from the US even if they wanted to.

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And we're proud to be in a

And we're proud to be in a minority of nations that could, but decide not to. Even having them on our soil was a major point of contention with political ramifications.

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