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Prayer:Some questions

Posted on: October 2, 2009 - 11:39pm

Cpt_pineapple

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Prayer:Some questions

The Christian health care topic induced an epiphany which could help me understand Hamby's arguments better.

So the simple questions I would like to ask:

Does Christianity actually teach that prayer will get you ANYTHING you want? I do mean ANYTHING, such as PS3s, ponies, ending world disasters etc....

Does it say that prayer is the BEST way to acheive said things? Better than worldly efforts? World efforts would be trying to aquire said things by action.

I know he goes on about prayer in his arguments and I would like clarification of the above.

Posted on: October 8, 2009 - 3:36pm #101

Cpt_pineapple

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Quote:You're still missing a

Quote:

You're still missing a fundamental mistake you've been making the whole time we've been having this discussion. CHRISTIANITY IS INTERNALLY CONTRADICTORY. You're not taking this into account. Furthermore, you're not allowing for compartmentalization by theists, nor for the acceptance of cognitive dissonance.
Most Christian denominations teach mutually contradictory dogma about prayer and actions. On one Sunday, they teach that actions are useless in the eyes of god, and that god doesn't care what you do -- only what you believe. The next Sunday, they teach that Christians are responsible for spreading the good news to all men, and that anyone who doesn't has the blood of all unbelievers on his hands. The next Sunday, they teach that Christians have an obligation to pray for their enemies and turn the other cheek, while out of the other side of their mouth, proclaiming that Christians are called to action, and to bring a Godly kingdom to earth.
The point is that pretty much any Christian you talk to will have several belief compartments which are mutually contradictory, but allow them to justify either action or inaction, whichever makes the most sense, or is being demanded by the Preacher du Jour.

For the record I DO take into account that religion is contradictory.

Do you agree with that though? That the Red Cross worker is helping despite his Christianity? If so, despite what in Christianity?

Quote:

You're suggesting that Christians always apply good critical thinking to their beliefs and dogmas, and the entire point I've been making to you for over a year is that RELIGION PREVENTS THEM FROM DOING SO.

You can't say that RELIGION PREVENTS THEM FROM APPLYING CRITICAL THINKING, and then say the nice tolerant religious people are applying critical thinking to their beliefs.

I have heard you say this repeatily.

After all, if religion prevents this, then how can they do it?

Posted on: October 8, 2009 - 3:39pm #102

Thomathy

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Cpt_pineapple wrote: You

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

You can't say that RELIGION PREVENTS THEM FROM APPLYING CRITICAL THINKING, and then say the nice tolerant religious people are applying critical thinking to their beliefs.
I have heard you say this repeatily.

After all, if religion prevents this, then how can they do it?

Pineapple, read.

Hamby wrote:

You're suggesting that Christians always apply good critical thinking to their beliefs and dogmas, and the entire point I've been making to you for over a year is that RELIGION PREVENTS THEM FROM DOING SO.

Religion prevents them from always applying good critical thinking to their beliefs and dogmas.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."

Posted on: October 8, 2009 - 4:04pm #103

Cpt_pineapple

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Thomathy wrote: Religion

Thomathy wrote:

Religion prevents them from always applying good critical thinking to their beliefs and dogmas.

Yes, but what determines what they take a'la dogma, and what determines what they reject?

I do read, and know that Hamby says that faith can justify anything, but what determines what they take on faith?

Posted on: October 8, 2009 - 4:19pm #104

Thomathy

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Cpt_pineapple wrote:Yes, but

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Yes, but what determines what they take a'la dogma, and what determines what they reject?

I do read, and know that Hamby says that faith can justify anything, but what determines what they take on faith?

I don't know Captain. 'Never conducted a study to find out. It's obvious, though, isn't it, and just by the testimony of people with faith, that they use it to justify particular actions? I don't think you're arguing that they don't. I'm not sure that anyone here is going to be able to pin down what determines what people take on faith. It seems as though it is different for any given person and certainly for any given group of people practicing a particular religion or take on a religion and depends on particular circumstances. I believe that Hamby wrote just about the same thing.

BigUniverse wrote,

Posted on: October 8, 2009 - 6:07pm #105

ProzacDeathWish

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theTwelve wrote: Well, it

theTwelve wrote:

Well, it may may not have a moral aspect to you, but for theist who believe painkillers are to be avoided because of the curse of eve, it is. Because it violates for these theist a sense of sacridity to God's act of punishment.....

Okay, now I get it.....Christianity is sort of like a kinder, gentler form of Islam! Good thing for pregnant women that these ass-hole Christians aren't around to run the maternity wards in modern hospitals. Thanks for clearing that up....