Hi and welcome,

Well, when you're surrounded by seemingly heavily religious people, then it's only natural to fear being ostracized. Still, going by your boyfriend's reaction, I don't think that's going to happen. He seems to be like most people, i.e. he doesn't care one way or the other, at least not enough to really bug you about it. As for his brother, if he really wanted to know what your life was like, he would ask you. His "empty and unfulfilling life" line is just wishful thinking on his part.

As for your family, that will take time. If you don't like conversations about your atheism, rest assured, they probably won't like it much either. But eventually, if they're honest, they'll have to acknowledge that you're still the same person, just a little happier maybe.

If the christian god were real, and not believing in said god equated to eternity in hell, then the vast majority of human beings are in hell. Everyone born before the so-called events of christs birth without exception, and the vast majority since. After all, the indians in North America weren't told about christians until a few hundred years ago. Until they were told, none of them believed in christianity. That's enough to be sent to hell? To be born in the wrong part of the world? What an evil and vindictive god christians claim to love.
The worst part for you has to be the isolation. I'm sure there are other atheists around you, and most of them probably face the same feelings.

"I can't even imagine how we'd ever raise kids together."

A feeling I share. I've long known I could never have a lasting relationship with a theist. We see the world through different eyes.

Having never been a believer, I'm not the best to help you get through this difficult time.

I only know for a fact that if and when I have kids, I'm teaching them to think for themselves.  I was brought up believing that to doubt was to be condemned.  I never want my kids to be afraid of asking questions, or of eternal damnation for petty "sins".  My life might have been so much better if I hadn't spent so much of it keeping myself from THINKING.

Hi Gallows,

I was also raised in a very religious family and believed it wholeheartedly until my 20's.  I knew the bible pretty thoroughly and my parents thought I would one day be a preacher or missionary.  During that decade of my life I began to dwell on various aspects of the logic surrounding my faith and slowly moved from theist to deist to finally atheist though I didn't admit that even to myself until my 30th year.

It's hard in a lot of ways because my mother always talks about god, god's plan, and asking me to pray for whoever all the time.  One of the most difficult things is that I'm a big enthusiast about evolution and human evolution especially, while my mother doesn't even believe in evolution.  And this is a woman with a Masters Degree that is the director of a University library!

A few years back she came to visit me, started talking about some scientific study that pushed back the common ancestor between man and chimp a couple more million more years, and said, "See?  I knew there was no monkey."

I blurted  out, "WELL THERE HAD TO HAVE BEEN ONE BACK THERE SOMEWHERE!"

I didn't even think, I just reacted.  But then we both had an "Oh shit" moment and just shut up about it.

I've had fights over religion with my older brother before.  It's tough, this stupid belief in this ancient religion driving a wedge between you and your family members and loved ones.  That's one of the things that gets me riled up when I'm displaying an "angry atheist" characteristic. 

The way I've dealt with it is that I usually just ignore my mother's god talk.  When bringing the kids to visit her I will go to church, I'll let her take them to sunday bible school in the summer, etc.  I'm not opposed to my girls learning about religion.  When they are around me I teach them about science and other religious beliefs including non-belief.  And then I will let them decide what they decide to believe  One mistake I will not make that my parents have made is that I will not let differences in belief of religion be a problem between me and my kids.

They can be mormons for all I care.

Welcome to the forum, Gallowsbait!

Many members of this forum used to be religious, so you're definitely not alone. Even at least two of the moderators/admin, Sapient and Hamby, were Christian at one time.

Again, welcome. If you have any questions about these topics, don't hesitate to ask. 

Sigh...there will be fun and productive conversations sometimes, but yeah, it's going to be like that with most Christians.

You don't have to listen to anything I say, but here's my opinion.

It's my impression that some people with different religious beliefs live together happily until they have kids, because this is not something that they can agree to disagree on. They separate because they can't handle not teaching their children their beliefs or allowing their spouse to. If you're planning to have children with him, and this is going to be the situation, then you should dump him now. You don't want to do it when you're married with kids. So, ask your boyfriend whether he would raise your children as Christians; talk to him.  

Yeah, I've considered that.  I don't want to jump to any decisions like that, though, because in all honesty when we first started dating I was still claiming to be a Christian (although at that point I was beginning to really doubt and I just didn't have the guts to say anything about it).  He's a really great guy and he's a vast improvement over the men I've been with in the past, and he dotes on me.  I want to believe that if I'm patient and explain why I'm atheist to him well enough he'll see the light, but he strongly believes in "ignorance is bliss" for some reason (that's not just pertaining to religion, btw) and he doesn't like to read and he's got selective hearing really bad.  I guess you'd call that confirmation bias. 

*sigh* I know, I know.  It's not like I've never had to break up with someone because I'd changed my mind during the course of the relationship before.  I guess I just want it to work out because he's been so good to me and with him I feel the security I'd been seeking in other relationships but never achieved. 

Usually I'd talk to my mom about something like this, but she's a devout church-goer (she's been the music director there since I was, like, eight) and we're really close and I don't want our relationship to be strained at all.  She's the one I call during my chronic depression episodes and when I'm facing a big decision and when something exciting happens to me and when I'm confused about something and when I just feel like talking.  Plus, I don't have any girlfriends so if I lost her I'd be stuck with just my roommate and my dog to talk to, and while my roommate is a great guy and a lot more open minded than my bf, he's also really good friends with him and I don't want to hurt their friendship at all.  Besides, guys don't like to talk about feelings and stuff.  And my puppy dog is ADHD so even if he knew what the hell I'm talking about he'd be too busy licking the sofa or doing his ritual kibble dance (he is the only dog I've ever known to play with his food) to pay attention. 

Anyway, thank you for all your support.  It's good to know I'm not alone.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/new_atheists_really_all_there

It's a bit personal, but where do you live? Maybe a change would do you good?

Two things:

First, You've got your thoughts in the right place, in my opinion. All of the issues you've brought up should stay on your mind even after you make any decision. Doubt is a human's greatest ally.

Live, learn, question, repeat.  - Easiest instructions for operation ever.

and

Second/last, I am married to what I fondly refer to as a hypo-christian. We have four wonderful children, all are skeptics that I have all but forbidden calling themselves atheists BECAUSE they need to investigate that side for themselves and get 'responses' from both mom and me.

Essentially, my spouse and I treat them as an audience. It is so easy to begin a discussion and force each other to speak with a modicum of decency when there are children present. lol. She and I grew up similarly, but I had grandparents to take care of me 50% of the time.

Asking questions that cause people to make reasoned arguments, rather than yes/no answers, has solved every parenting issue I have encountered TO DATE. It's called 'The Socratic Method'. Learn that and don't worry about ideologically 'mixed' children.

Take comfort in the fact that YOU grew up religious and worked your way out of it. Have a little confidence in the next generation and your effect upon it.

My question:

Obviously, you still call him 'boyfriend' so ideology has not effected your feelings toward him, why does it seem like you're afraid his feelings toward you have changed? Or have I made an incorrect assumption?

darth_josh:  it's awesome that you don't label your kids.  Kudos, dude.  I respect that to the highest degree.

You obviously misunderstand how male understands things - pussy first, religion and football later. So, as long as you don't make him appreciate #1, he will feel free to be childish about #2.

Once you get to know people in this forum, you will know that most of them use to be religious. Their own religious experience tends to be unpleasant or even traumatic and this clouds their judgement about function and nature of belief in general. It can easily be the case with you. This can bring you on thin ice in discussions, so you are best served with a bit of distance to the subject when it comes to boyfriends.

Of course, this information is only useful if you know the nature of male. Rule #1 in cross-gender discussion: don't get condescending or become emotionally involved - male vanity is a fierce opponent and they will play on your "female hysteria" instantly. Make certain that he understands your values - don't back off an inch unless you agree with his argument. The easiest way to do this is to argue FOR, not AGAINST. Examples: argue for better health care for women and quality of life for children, not against "anti-abortion lunatics"; argue for better health care and education for young adults, not against abstinence; argue for equality, civil and human rights for homosexuals, not against "anti-gay lunatics"; argue for pro-life position in domestic judicial and foreign policy, not against death penalty and war; ...

Naturally, lunatics will implicitly be discredited and called on their hypocrisy and you can feel free to say that opinions in disagreement with the core values you just presented are not something a grown person would accept without further inquiry.

You can add that his willingness to inquire and distrust authoritative narrative is admirable in a man. He will eat out of your hand.

If he doesn't, stop the discussion with a smile - he has obviously not understood what you just told him, is being stubborn and should be treated gently, but like a kid nevertheless. Naturally, you don't think such behaviour is particularly sexy either, so odds are nothing will happen tonight.

Family is where most males differ and are alike at the same time. Many males are family pussies and impressions matter much. Other males are not family pussies, but they are someone else's pussies, and families tend to exploit that - a male does not want his family bad-mouthing anything about his life to, say, his first crush from high school. Therefore, no matter what your male says about it, family pressure matters and will have effect on your relationship.

You can change this with time by upgrading him from male to man, but no one can teach you that.

Yeah.  And when the local Applebee's closed down.  I'm convinced that's what killed it.

It was at Bennigan's?

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THAT'S WHY NO ONE WAS EVER THERE!

Well mother fucker...

We are not professional therapists. We can only advise you from an atheists viewpoint . Ultimately you have to decide for yourself.

Having said that, you mentioned "if you have kids". Even outside the issue of religion, I think it would be best to think about that first. That is an 18 year anchor on your life even if you married an atheist and had a kid. BUT, we have all heard horror stories where people have intermarried only for the kids to be used in the middle of warfare during a divorce. Not just atheist/theist marriages, but life in general.

We cannot advise you on staying or leaving this relationship. But there ARE and will be problems in any relationship and being aware of what can happen before hand may help you decide if you are willing to take that risk. But be pragmatic about it. No matter how much you may love someone , you don't have to sacrifice your happyness, neither do they. And the best thing if you do decide to stay with someone, is to accept that the future is not certain and things can and do change. But once you have a kid, stay or go, that kid has to know that they will be loved by both of you, and any differences you might have must not  blow up into a war that the kid gets screwed up over.

well you could tell your family that hell is from greek mythology and was added into the bible in 600bc

The same 'feeling' or 'instinct' is what drove me to start examining what I accepted and what I didn't more closely.  When you have children, these things become more than trivialities.  The values that you pass on to your children both intentionally and by example become very important.  So one of the main problems with being with a theist is that it's hard to predict whether there will arise a conflict over the children's religious education or lack of it. 

My family hasn't accepted my atheism.  At best we have an uncomfortable agree to disagree situation.  I was faced with having to defind my right to leave the christian religion while my late husband was dying of cancer.  And defend it to my mother and sister, who should have been supporting me in whatever I needed, rather than trying to defend their religion against apostasy.  I will not say it is an easy road to follow - to become an 'unbeliever' surrounded by well-meaning believers.  It was very isolating for me as well.

You can be congratulated for finding the 'narrow path'.  There are others of us on it as well.