I don't think religion is evil, and you are misguided
Offline In my humble opinion, religion was created for quite a few reasons, mostly because people felt comforted by the thought that their life had meaning and direction and that they had someone looking over them and protecting them. Also because the idea of total nothingness after death was terrifying and difficult to comprehend. Another large part of why people choose to follow religion is to better themselves. Religion lays down moral guidelines that lead to becoming a good person with compassion and understanding, and lead away from giving yourself up to the inherent evil in man, by that I mean the compulsion for violence that we all have in us, read lord of the flies for a better explanation.
In my mind there is nothing wrong or evil with religion in it's basic form, it's only a way of making yourself a better person. Wether you take the symbols within a religion like god or the devil as being literal things, or metaphors for the good and evil in people is totally up to you.
Religion itself is not evil, people say frequently that it causes wars and divides people, but in those situations where conflict arises out of religion, it's people's lust for violence, their need for supremacy and their inability to reason that causes it. Let me go over that once more for clarity, it's man's own faults that cause war, not religion, which is an attempt to better man.
Another argument against religion is that people tend to follow it blindly and throw away their own thoughts in favour of a group philosophy. This is another example of man's faults being mistaken for religion's wrongdoing. Religion is just a set of moral values, it can't force you into worshipping it, people's own weakness is what leads to them throwing away their own thoughts, rather than taking on the concepts given out by a religion, bettering themselves and remaining individuals.
I'm not religious or theist myself, I just get tired of seeing all these misguided people bashing religion with no idea of what they're actually fighting against. If you plan on deleting this mr internet man, please have the decency to reply first and give a bit of argument.
The above post was made by an anonymous poster in the freethinking anonymous forum. I find it humorous that at the end he/she stated that if we choose to delete it that we should have the decency to respond first. Well maybe I'd respond if he/she had the decency to leave an email address or maybe sign up for the site. Well maybe the person will find this post eventually, and here is and opportunity for the community to respond. - Sapient
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"There is no God higher than truth." -Mahatma Ghandi
The next time Mr. Anonymous wants to post something then he should have the decency to not be so "anonymous." Stand up for yourself and your convictions. We do!!
"There is no God higher than truth." -Mahatma Ghandi
The next time Mr. Anonymous wants to post something then he should have the decency to not be so "anonymous." Stand up for yourself and your convictions. We do!!
"There is no God higher than truth." -Mahatma Ghandi
What's it with the name a nony mouse?
Anyway, I don't think religion is inhertily good or evil. Considering that the holy books are full of contradictions, they can be used to justify both good and evil.
I think that both the claims of religion being good and religion being evil should both be put under scientific scrutiny. As I've said before, both sides rely on faulty [at best] logic. Empirical data and logic put holes in both arguments.
So I agree with you that religion in of itself doesn't cause evil, and disagree with you that religion in if itself causes good.
"Another large part of why people choose to follow religion is to better themselves"
I was more or less with you until here. Religion has nothing to do with bettering oneself.
"Religion lays down moral guidelines that lead to becoming a good person with compassion and understanding, and lead away from giving yourself up to the inherent evil in man, by that I mean the compulsion for violence that we all have in us, read lord of the flies for a better explanation."
I read it and watched it. You are suggesting only religion can give morality. You are very wrong. Before EXC comes in here and tells you morality is a bunch of crap, I'm going to point out that the most irreligious nations are also the most crime free. Religion creates dividers that would not otherwise be there. We are capable of dividers with or without religion, but religion adds more. It has also centred itself on ignorance, the foundation for irrational prejudice.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
"In my mind there is nothing wrong or evil with religion in it's basic form, it's only a way of making yourself a better person."
In my experience that isn't true.
"Wether you take the symbols within a religion like god or the devil as being literal things, or metaphors for the good and evil in people is totally up to you."
Hence the problem. If religion were just allegories and metaphor, there'd be little danger in it. But you have people not only believing in a literal god, but a book that has all sorts of primitive and false notions; such as a flat Earth, we being the centre of the universe, the Earth being a few thousand years old, homosexuality being wrong, sex in general being wrong, and the list continues ad absurdum. Then the people who believe these ridiculous things make them all
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
even more horrible by forcing these ridiculous beliefs on others; by trying to include them in public schools, indoctrinating their and others children, and killing those that disagree with them. It's disgusting.
"Religion itself is not evil, people say frequently that it causes wars and divides people, but in those situations where conflict arises out of religion, it's people's lust for violence, their need for supremacy and their inability to reason that causes it. Let me go over that once more for clarity, it's man's own faults that cause war, not religion, which is an attempt to better man."
Religion enhances, enforces, and encourages such stupidity. It is by no stretch a barrier to it. Conflict would exist without religion, but it would be far less common.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
"Another argument against religion is that people tend to follow it blindly and throw away their own thoughts in favour of a group philosophy. This is another example of man's faults being mistaken for religion's wrongdoing."
No. You are mistaking an aggravator for a soother.
"Religion is just a set of moral values"
No, it isn't.
"it can't force you into worshipping it"
But those who believe it can, and do.
"I'm not religious or theist myself, I just get tired of seeing all these misguided people bashing religion with no idea of what they're actually fighting against."
I think you need to do a lot more research on religion to better yourself. The fact is that I see it more clearly than you do.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Religion necessarily involves faith and, because of that, I do consider religion to be inherently evil. The best tool one can have in one's pursuit of survival and happiness is reason; faith is the abandoning of reason.
Reality is the graveyard of the gods.
I wish people would stop equating all religions with christianity, it really makes them look like idiots.
I think there are too many people who use the terms "good and evil" a little too loosely. I think that religion at its core is neither inherently good or evil. There is nothing in this world that fits into either category. There is, in my opinion, only gray area. I think religion misguides and its leaders tend to bend christian morals and 'laws' to most benefit themselves. However, they do lay down some groundwork for people who are not free thinkers and do depend on guidance to be a better person. Let's face it, not everyone on earth has the desire, intuition, or mental capacity to formulate and articulate a legitimate opinion on religion, theism, etc.
Even the most 'immoral' or 'wrong' aspects of human interaction (rape, murder, etc) have to have been some intrinsic and extrinsic factors that lead to the act that had an impact on the 'wrongdoer's' mentality. I'm not saying there are positive aspects to rape. All I am saying is that it does not take someone who is purely evil to commit the act. There are no forces of good and evil, and to break down the world in such a Mickey Mouse kind of way does an injustice to the intricacies and complexities of the world.
"I think there are too many people who use the terms "good and evil" a little too loosely. I think that religion at its core is neither inherently good or evil. There is nothing in this world that fits into either category."
I would agree that good and evil are subjective, and have no inherent meaning. But theists believe they have meaning, and to facilitate discussion it is often necessary to use those terms.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I'm just going to whistle nonchalantly and move along before I start mentioning the salem witch trials and countless genocidal "holy wars" amongst several other terrible moments in history, you know, to keep the sanctity of this thread.
EDIT: Why did it post twice?
"I do not think it is necessary to believe that the same God who has given us our senses, reason, and intelligence wished us to abandon their use, giving us by some other means the information that we could gain through them." ~Galileo Galilei
We do not need religion for morality.
Religions are organized beliefs systems that emphasize faith and obedience rather than reason. As such, they are poor guides to a moral high ground. Your assertion that it is the weak minded individual's fault is irrelevant. Of course we are responsible for the choices that we make, but if there was less religion, more people would be forced to abandon their fears of the unknown and think, really think, about what is right and wrong, instead of embracing intellectual cop-outs.
Is it entirely your fault if your insurance company swindles money out of you based on some loophole in your plan?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Religion is responsible for more war then man has every known.
Sure, it's not the only cause, but it is a prime mover. If the entire world had been secular since 0 AD, much less wars would have occurred.
You know, some religious wars are bad, but the worse things religion tends to do is the small stuff. Just look at the Puritans, they were cool and all, but they wasted their entire lives on belief so they had little advancement, plus not to mention the Salem Witch Trials. And look at Christianity, these people are so fet up with science because science is figuring out things that just happen to contradict Christian beliefs, who gives a damn? Also look at Muslims... well, I guess that falls under war.
The sad thing is is that wherever there are beliefs there are extremists, that's how we stereotype the people of these beliefs. Christians are great, a bit arrogant, but they keep to themselves on their beliefs unless directly convicted. Muslims are also great, however they get a bit iffy when they OD on jihad. Puritans? Ha, every Puritan was an extremist, but that's because there were extremists, raising extremists, with an extremist government based off of the belief. I don't know if there are any modern Puritans, if there are it's probably called something else I'm assuming.
Now this brings up the question: Without religion would we be more advanced?
Personally I don't think we can run from belief, studies show that a sense of "God" or "gods" is embedded in the brain within the temporal lobes. There are strong atheists and just non-religious folk in which have temporal lobe epilepsy who have religious "visions," no one really knows why, although some people go nuts and say "Leik omg! I saw God, and he's leik, such a kewl doode, I meen u shud rlly meet him." Perhaps some of the greatest "prophets" and all the religious icons had temporal lobe epilepsy, maybe even Jesus himself had temporal lobe epilepsy.
So in other words; I'd say no, we would not be advanced because this question is a fallacy; we cannot run from belief.
"I do not think it is necessary to believe that the same God who has given us our senses, reason, and intelligence wished us to abandon their use, giving us by some other means the information that we could gain through them." ~Galileo Galilei
I'm not sure you can blithely say 'religion in its basic form is not evil'. The concepts and variations of religion are too great to argue there's some off-the-shelf framework of religion that additional religious modules are then tacked onto - say the Jesus upgrade or the Buddah upgrade onto a religious operating system.
What is religion in its base form if it does not include the bias of local morality and the burden of local conflict? There are few religions that don't decry the non-believer though you could not argue there are some faiths that are intrinsically more tolerant than others.
I strongly disagree that a religion is 'just a set of moral values'. This is completely wrong. A set of moral values is a set of moral values. I have one of those and I think it's the better because I am not religious. There are religions - islam and christianity - which include teaching that exhort followers to discard moral values and to kill and destroy.
A religion is a complete, functioning doctrine, warts and all - evils and all - that from an evolutionary perspective, is designed to protect the group that adheres to it through unification of actions in the face of threat.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I was going to say that if no one else did.
And as far as I know most religions involve touchy, disgruntled deities who have to constantly be appeased and worshiped and all that fun stuff just to keep them from blasting you with a hurricane or whatever, which has nothing to do with being a good person. It's just covering your ass so you can tiptoe around the rest of your life in case you piss your god off again.