New to the site... But whats the point?
Offline Hello everyone, my name is Niall and I am from Dublin, Ireland. I just looked at the NightLine Debate on youtube and I thought that I'd stop by.
I felt very sympathic to the Atheist couple whom although had much more logical, educated and sensible answers... I felt that because the debate was taking place somewhere in America, these two people would be seen as the nutjobs!
I got over my sympathy pretty quickly however, cause I really don't see the point of the Atheist Movement! I unlike the couple on the show don't see any need to advertise the fact that I am an Atheist, its not because I am afraid, its because I don't think of it as any kind of identity.
When I was 16 or 17, I read the bible and thought to myself "Nahhh, I don't buy it. It doesn't make sense. Its not a reasonable thing to believe." and on that day, I put the book down and haven't picked it up since and with exception to the odd debate here and there, I haven't given religion or christianity another thought.
To me, thats what it means to be an Atheist, am I wrong? When your an Atheist, you don't believe in intelligent design? Essentially you don't have any religious belief's at all so why is it necessary to run a poster campaign to advertise your lack of belief's? I get it if its a religious faith trying to persuade people to turn to whatever God they believe in, but if your an Atheist you don't believe in God so what is the point of this poster campaign, promoting your lack of beliefs is kind of like a Rock Band releasing a CD with no songs on it and then touring to promote their lack of new material.... Its stupid, I don't get it.
Furthermore the whole concept of going to the supreme court to have the pledge of allegience changed? Thats just silly, yeah I don't believe it which is why I wouldn't say it but why have Christians take it out of their pledge? Its suppose to be their pledge so as Atheists why do you care if they are making their pledge to God or to their country or to some other cause... Why try to change the inauguration? If Obama was an Atheist I'd agree with you, because the act of him putting his hand on the bible and pledging to God to uphold the constitution would be a meaningless act if he didn't believe in God, but because he is a God Fearing man... the act surely has some merit, right???
I personally think that we have different idea's of what it means to be an Atheist. I personally believe that everyone has to discover it for themselves, the act of trying to convert someone is completely against the point of it all, afterall we are atheists because we don't believe in God or Organised religion so why act like an organised non religion if there is such a thing. When I became an Atheist I didn't feel any different that day than I had felt the day before, my daily routine hadn't changed, I merely had a different belief structure.
On the ABC show the lady states that she had read the Bible several times... Why would you bother? If you don't believe why would you read it a second time? Its not exactly the most enjoyable of books, its certainly not light reading... Why would you read it again? If I don't like a movie, I turn it off. I certainly don't watch it over and over again and I don't study up on the actors and writers/directors so that I can some day write a book about how full of shit said movie was.
Its a shame cause the two of them were really well informed but I don't have any time for this "respect our lack of believes mentality" It doesn't make any sense, because I am Atheist myself, I felt that I must be a different kind of Atheist to the two people on the show and in the end I found myself believing that even though the God Squad had very poor answers, they were smarter than the Atheist couple because atleast they believed in what they were debating about... studying up on something that you have no belief or interest in makes you a bit of a dumbass as far as I am concerned.
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The way I see it, I am not promoting atheism. I am promoting logic, rationality, and science. I am trying to debunk established traditions that I feel are incorrect. Essentially I am doing the same thing as religious people are, because I believe they are wrong and they are hindering society. Just like them, I am acting on my beliefs because I am not apathetic to changes I feel I have sufficient reason to combat. If you think there are no reasons for an anti-religious movement, those are your thoughts, but in our view, it is something important that we feel needs to change.
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Turnbull? Intelligent relative to what? *snicker*
On the bright side who's gonna vote for Tony Abbot anyway? He'll at least keep the coalition (who are by far the greater propounders of religious populism) out next term. *touches wood*
Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist
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ahh, esoteric discussions of aussie politics. no idea of what the fuck anyone is talking about, but all i have to do is imagine the accents and it makes me smile.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Most of the rest of the party, I guess, but I agree that's a pretty low base-line..
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Inability to read critically, if that was true then I would never have become an Atheist in the first place seeing as most people where I come from accept whats written in the bible blindly.
An Atheist promotion is promoting science, ethics, logic and rationality rather than Atheism... Honestly I don't get that, if you want to promote either of the above then God doesn't even need to be mentioned.
There was an Atheist mentioned in the God Delusion whom campaigned at Christian Rallies for believers to keep their kids on medical treatments regardless to what their preacher might say about leaving the Child in Gods hands. The Campaigner in question was threatened and run out of town, in my opinion his cause was completely worth while and beneficial to the community a poster that says There's probably no God, but just be good to eachother anyway, I don't see how that helps anyone.
With regards to unethical religions, well thats not really any particular topic that I was touching on, no matter what field your in there are unethical decisions made, maybe it is a reflection of the field maybe its a reflection of the individual, that will only fade away when people lose the ability to stop being jerks to eachother so I don't see it going away any time soon.
There is a lot of prejudice against atheism in the states. I take it you don't realize this. There are a large number of fundies here that don't even know atheists really exist, they are so demonized in their communities.
The fact the boards draw fire for suggesting you can be "good" without a god, is really telling. It should not be controversial in any way. It SHOULD be a non-issue and unhelpful. Then it wouldn't be needed.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Do you really need to say you can be good without God? You can be very religious and also a total prick, take Fred Phelps for example, but people already know this, when you help someone carry home their shopping or take out their garbage or do something else kind, you don't need to say "Ohh by the way, I'm an Atheist".
People will reciprocate whatever you throw at them, I'm going to leave it here... I have been asked if I feel this way then why did I bother to log on at all, I bothered to log on because although the views here are that of Atheists, they don't represent me and I can guarantee you that they don't represent a lot of other atheists around the world and if you are going to go on Television and speak on behalf of Atheists then I think that its important that you realise that were not all as sensitive on the subject.
How does it have to do with taking out the garbage? Obviously it DOES need to be said that you can be good without a god, because there are many people that have never given it thought here. Many people don't believe it is possible.
Why else would it come up so often? They don't think that atheists have any sense of "morality" because they think that morality is divinely ordered. It is not uncommon to find the average person in this country saying that atheists cannot have a sense of ethics. It is also not terribly uncommon for atheists to be linked to devil-worship and evil.
What exactly is there to reciprocate with saying that "you can be good without belief in a god"? I don't follow. Sorry, it seems like you are getting all worked up over something that is obviously an issue in another country that you don't live in.
If boards were put up that said "atheists don't eat babies" would that offend you if the place they were put up, people commonly thought atheists ate babies? Would you say "those boards are not needed!"? Would you go on forums and complain about the atheists living there trying to let people know they don't eat babies, and say you can't relate to them at all and you think they are somehow offensive and provoking something?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
What a sulk. Seriously. If it doesn't represent you then what has it got to do with you? This is the "Rational Response Squad" and the RRS was founded by, and, essentially, are atheists. It is not "Atheists are the Rational Response Squad" and I don't see anyone advancing such a claim except you, Niall.
Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist
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NiallStynes ~ might I suggest you peruse the forums? I see from your posting history that this is the only thread you started as well as the only one you have contributed written material to ~ take some time here and perhaps you will see that we are all about information sharing, rational responses (most of the time, we are human of course) and a place for atheists and theists from all walks of life to hang out...
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
I'm not sulking and you are not the first person on this site to assume that they can interpret my state of mind from an ambiguous post on a website.
I am infact agreeing with you, there is no point in my being here. Its obvious that no one else shares my view that being an Atheist is not something that merits a poster campaign or a legal battle through the supreme court to omit offensive words like GOD and HEAVEN out of state policy. I'm not exactly a fan boy of Dawkins so maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall him ever starting a petition to change God Save the Queen into something a little more Atheist friendly.
People think that because I haven't grown up in America that I don't understand what its like to grow up with such a religious regime, maybe there is some truth to this... But I did grow up in Ireland and here in Ireland its still illegal to get an abortion, divorce was only made legal about 10 years ago and even still you have to go through 3 years of seperation and then councilling, religion is still taught and examined in school and where I went to school 99% of my school were Catholic, and thats ignoring the whole IRA Vs UVF bullshit, I completely understand what its like to live in a country where Religion has a big stake in the states political matters.
I am not and have not gotten offended by any statements that have been made so far, but if the point of the RRS is to say to the world that we aren't immoral, unethical baby eating deviants then I apologise I thought that it might be something worthwhile.
Do you concede that the illegality of abortion and problems with divorce in your country would have been sorted out much earlier if people who did not agree with the religious justifications for those restrictions had felt more free to speak out and object? Because that's pretty much to the point of why Atheists speak out, and should do so.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
As an adult, there are hardly any situations where I'm expected to say this. These are really just part of an indoctrination program for children. The overall goal of the indoctrination is to just get kids to accept the status quo, never think for themselves and continue to support those with the power, influence and money. The pursuit of one's own pleasure and happiness becomes secondary to the goals of the society once the indoctrination is complete.
So, I view religion as a social virus which must infect children and weak minded adults to take root. So to me atheism should not just be about 'non-belief' but rather about fighting the viruses of irrationality that infect society.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
I will add that you may personally feel uncomfortable about speaking out about issues of religiously-justified laws and restrictions, and that is ok and understandable.
But that gets you into a contradiction if you actually do feel driven to speak out to object to others speaking out about their views. Which is what you are doing here.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I'm glad you're not offended by anything said, and I'm sorry if what I said was in the least insulting. Gotta stay positive.
But, I still think you're not answering the questions that have been directed towards you and I would appreciate it if you try harder.
I think that you have a very different point of view compared to mine and others who have posted. You were raised in a country where Catholicism (or to be precise, the Vatican) is the driving factor behind state policy. Answer this question: How is religion shaping government acceptable to you?
I don't think being Catholic makes anyone a bad person, but I do not support the Vatican in the least with their policies, notions about God, what they demand of their followers, and so on. They're quite offensive to me, really. And you listed some that you find personally find offensive too. Why are even asking why RRS is doing what they're doing?
I never thought there were corners in my mind until I was told to stand in one.
I have learned so much, thanks for keeping it real RRS.
To answer both BobSpence1 and MrPal's question. Why do I find it acceptable to allow religious regimes influence political procedure and policy.
My answer is that I don't and have never said otherwise (there's a difference between allowing the church to dictate policy and allowing 8 years olds to have a prayer group in their school), but thats not what were talking about. As a matter of fact I did say that I found the pursuit of truth and knowledge through scientific research to be of the nobelist of efforts and also that trying to convince religious families that faith alone will not cure their sick children, and if their preacher recommends prayer over medicine, then perhaps doing both will not upset the apple cart. This is a worthwhile exercise and trying to appease someone's faith rather undermine it will probably get you that bit closer to being accepted rather than allowing yourself to be manouvered into religious debates with the likes of Bill O'Reilly and his FOXNEWS buddies which doesn't help you or anyone else.
With regards to religion being a virus, with all do respect, thats just nonsense. Dawkins view that life is more beautiful if you are an Atheist because you learn to appreciate your life all the more, thats all fine and dandy if you have a good life but what if you have to walk 5 miles to get a glass of water and claw your way through garbage to find a meal? Then the view that your life sucks now and when you die you fade away into nothingness becomes a far more depressing view than God has a plan for you and that Jesus loves you etc, etc, etc... You can give me the "but its a lie" till your blue in the face but at the end of the day, given the circumstance I know which story I'd want to hear. Faith can be a good thing.
Yes, in your analogy, faith can be a good thing. So can a psychotic break if it shields you from reality but that's not the kind of solution that I'm looking for.
Hahahaha, comparing faith in God to a psychotic break.... And you wonder why no one gets along?
OK, personally speaking I would compare believing in a supernatural being whom has complete power over us all to be similar to a psychotic break, but on the other side I have seen good things come out of someone developing faith in God, I have seen them develope a more positive outlook and I have seen them welcomed into a more caring a loving environment by being accepted into a positive community. When you have a psychotic break, you get locked into a nuthouse where all of your buddies are nuts too and your environment and community does not breed positivity and so nothing good comes from it. Lets be fair, its not really the same thing?
No, they're not identical but they both represent a disconnect from reality, albeit from different paths and to different degrees. Both have the capacity to provide a sense of relief which was my point. People who consume mind-altering drugs are sometime attempting to achieve the same effect. These are simply various methods that people use to mitigate psychological pain. The key feature that they all have in common is that it involves a comforting but distorted view of reality. The sense of relief is based upon an altered perception of the real world.
But speaking out about what we see as problems with religion being accepted too easily, and causing problems, are what WE are talking about.
Also making it easier for 8 year olds who aren't comfortable participating in prayer groups to opt out is also something we see as worth doing.
Except that it collectively reduces the pressure to do something about those really poor circumstances.
Religion does have the characteristics of a virus, in that it spreads, via appealing ideas, and the ability to make us feel better, despite not necessarily being in the best interests of the person 'infected'. That concept is most definitely NOT 'nonsense'. It is analogous to a computer virus, more than a biological one, if that makes it easier for you to understand.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I think that the difference is choice. When you are intoxicated by a substance, everything you do from that moment until you are sober is something that you are doing while you are not in a reasonable state of mind, the same when you are insane... But when your praying, the moment you stop praying and go about your day, for the most part you are of sound body and mind and you can make choices that you can be held accountable for. Religious people can go to work, do their shopping, pay their bills... you can't really do them things when your stoned off your bin or nuttier than squirrel crap. Plus when you make animated porn using road kill, everyone knows that your nuts and knows to avoid you and when you have a non stop state of the giggles and you can't figure out why your hands are so big everyone knows that your stoned and knows not to let you drive their car, I know plenty of religious people and I can't think of anything that they could do that would make me feel uncomfortable in their company.
Bob, I wasn't talking about talking out against relative issue's like the pursuit of truth and teaching kids, I was talking about poster campaigns that don't promote anything and having religious words omitted from statements with national appeal. With regards to religion getting in the way of sending AID and real tangible relief to the poverty stricken, sorry thats nonsense, one thing that you can't take away from them, its that church and religious organisations are very generous when it comes to sending aid to these kids. If your point is that maybe science will eventually find a way to wipe out poverty, well that day isn't here yet so until then, I can't not applaud the churches humanity in this regard.
You have to appreciate however that teaching ignorance as you call it, its only igorance to less than 10% of America, its truth to the other 90% and for that 90% your message of rational taught directly effects their teaching of faith to their kids, I'm not saying that it makes it right or anything, but if I came to your house and told your kids that Santa doesn't exist and that he won't be coming this year, you surely wouldn't be too happy about that would you?
I'm not disagreeing with you regarding comparative levels of dysfunction, simply that from the perspective of the "afflicted" person a sense of relief was being experienced that wasn't predicated upon truth. That was the common thread that I was attempting to weave.
I am a formally religious person who suffers from a type of hereditary mental illness. It has made the majority of my life quite unbearable ( although psychosis is not a symptom ). The prospect of having my mental illness someday being corrected by God used to give me hope. To make a long story short, I later learned that it was a false hope. It amounted to a major loss of comfort when I realized that I was going to have to ride it out to the bitter end in my present condition. Nothing was going to change.
For me, I liken my attitude to a cancer patient who suspects that he is terminal. I would rather just know up front what my situation actually is and face up to it..than to live a life based upon false hope. But that's just me.
Except that there are levels of drug dose, including of perfectly legal ones like Prozac, which are just enough to reduce anxiety to manageable levels without impairing your ability to go about your life. In fact they improve your ability to do ordinary things, by reducing debilitating and distracting emotional states. And such pharmaceutical drugs have negligible physical effects in normal dose.
I am not saying they are all without problematic side-effects, but then neither is religious faith, for sometimes similar reasons, in that you may ignore real problems looming ahead in your life - the Lord will not provide, or look after you, in such cases, because He doesn't exist.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Bob, I realise that some drugs help with regards to deciphering reality while others don't, we were comparing faith to a break from reality, be it pschologically or drugs, however if you are going to compare drugs to faith in that like religion not all drugs are good, then you have to concede that not all are bad either?
PDW's situation obviously is one of the cases where faith is frustrating, however I have a brother whom lived at home with my parents until he was 40, he didn't have any friends and never dated and one day some Mormons called to the door, and now 5 years later he's married with kids, sometimes it can have positive results but like everything else in life, its not for everyone.
Surprise, placebos can actually provide a psychological benefit. I am not arguing the authenticity of your brother's recovery but in your brother's case does his improvement reflect an accurate assessment of reality or is it hope based upon a fairy tale ? Perhaps to you such distinctions don't matter.
And in my case "faith" wasn't frustrating it was useless.
( anyway, stay and debate the efficacy of faith-based placebos if you wish, I've made the point I wished to make )
Faith IS a break from reality.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
No, he just had communication problems and not everyone knew how to take him, the church he joined was very accomodating and he met a very patient woman and now he's married, I doubt that would be the case otherwise. You go to a bar or a club and you can barely speak, people don't take any notice of you, you go to a church they do, I know... funny right.
I didn't mean to talk for you, I usually try to stear clear of trying presume to know how other people feel.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2009/12/gay-marriage-catholic-church-washington-dc-heaven/1
I figured I wasn't quote mining with this.
Again I hope I'm not quote mining, but how is manipulating a metaphor any manner of trying to prove a point?
I never thought there were corners in my mind until I was told to stand in one.
I have learned so much, thanks for keeping it real RRS.
Except that, as far as most religions go, a belief in god supersedes acceptance of those four items. So what is a logical way to promote them? Combat belief in god, so that they are easier for one to accept. I will also point out that we have to use those structures to combat religion, so under the title of atheism we are promoting the above four.
It seems to me that, as far as religion goes, you are apathetic. To me, there is nothing wrong with that. If you don't care how irrational beliefs affect society, so be it. We here DO care, and are trying to combat them. Since arguing for atheism automatically argues for science, ethics, rationality and logic, whether or not we explicitly promote one or the other becomes an issue of semantics.
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MrPal, your not going to get me to condone anything that the Church says, we all know that its backwards and so we are in agreement, but a dig at them at the expense of Joe Public and his God Worshipping family makes you no better.
Promoting your view on religion does not necessarily promote your view on science, if that is the desired effect then why not do so more directly, so put up a poster to promote scientific advancement rather than God doesn't exist, you do it because you know that the latter will get more chins wagging and that is the desired result, lets not say that its some kind of promotion for rationality or logic or even science.
That has already been addressed... Organized religions all-too-often repress their followers by not allowing sacrament or manipulating the rest of the community. I was actually going to post a link earlier about how Patrick Kennedy is denied his sacrament because he not pro life. (I should go with my gut when thinking about posting articles apparently.)
Anyway you once again haven't addressed what was directed at you but instead you used a technique of applying the question back at the person who proposed it. I have come to the conclusion that you are a highly advanced troll so I'm gonna get outta here.
And by the way, your trolling is superb.
I never thought there were corners in my mind until I was told to stand in one.
I have learned so much, thanks for keeping it real RRS.
Who do you think will oppose those promotions? Atheists? Non-religious? No. The vast majority will be religious. Hence the targeting of religion. They are the main group unwilling to accept science as the determining method for the discovery of truth.
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Okay this is my last post but I just wanted to say what this reminds me of. It's like I'm talking to ELIZA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA
I never thought there were corners in my mind until I was told to stand in one.
I have learned so much, thanks for keeping it real RRS.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern+troll
I read about half the first page. NiallStynes, live in the US for 5 years and see if your opinions change. You really have no idea at the battle being fought, and no place to comment on it.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Eh... He's pointed out Ireland's problems, and I think he is justified in his opinion. We don't actually have to deal with legitimate religious fighting here (though I don't know if that is still a problem over there).
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TROLL? And things were going so well!!! I actually am an Atheist and I feel that I answered your question, you asked: How is religion shaping government acceptable to you? and I answered, I don't and have never said otherwise, and then went into a bit more detail but the first sentence should have sufficed, No?
In fairness targeting religion to promote a science campaign is using hysteria to do your dirty work but in reality you are only really stooping to the depths that organised religion has stooped to in the past, still though, your suppose to be better than them. I do hear ye though, I feel sorry for the poor bastard who invents a cure for aids on the same day that Britney is caught wearing a thong, we all know who is gonna get the front page on that day.
Who else is in opposition to science as truth?
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Fair enough, but it is kinda like a huge massive poster with PEPSI SUCKS in massive writing and then enjoy coke writen in tiny unreadable writing in the bottom left hand corner.
Well, I suppose I'm the wrong person to be talking to, since I've been here about 4 days... So I can't say anything for the ad campaigns that RRS has (because I know nothing of them), but my position is that people haven't really taken the time to fully understand their religion, and subsequently affect things like law with their beliefs that they haven't rationalized. I guess it's more of a rationalization movement than an atheist one.
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Hi NiallStynes, welcome to the forum!
If you're an atheist, it means that you don't believe in any Gods.
You can be religious and be an atheist. You just can't believe in God. There are religions that don't include God belief. They can believe in other weird stuff.
People's beliefs affect their thoughts and decisions. When a lot of people believe something, it can affect social structure, government policy, environmental awareness, etc. etc. etc. Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean that you're required to be apathetic about that belief; that's a complete non sequitur. Again, beliefs affect reality, so it's often important to speak up even when you don't believe something; it's not just to be intolerant or bored or nosy.
People who don't believe in evolution speak up against it. Why? People who don't support anthropogenic global warming speak up against that. Why? This really isn't that hard to understand.
The Pledge of Allegiance has no legal authority over anything, so I don't care much about it.
But, how about if they all pledge allegiance to Hitler? Would you care then?
You really think there isn't any difference, that beliefs exist in a void?
Wow, are you, like, stupid or something? Or, are you another theist pretending to be atheist?
Part of the debate was about evolution. Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort were arguing about evolution....even though they don't believe in it! Omg!!!11 What the heck is wrong with them, right? Why would they do that?
Edit: Lmao. How about this? You don't believe in studying about things that you don't believe in. But, you're discussing studying about things that you don't believe in with us. That means you're a dumbass.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNikc0_rjxU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWTzjsGtEIA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2vvZ6fKq0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIf9BbjdHSk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9fnZAzjjk4&feature=related
You can see from the dates that these are all from this year, the peace treaty has stopped the bombing and shootings but the rioting and street violence is still a big problem. One way that the peace treaty hasnt helped us, is that it let all of the political prisoners out of prison, so all the nutjobs whom have been caught bombing pubs and churches in the 70's and 80's are now free again, and this guy Michael Stone was up to his old tricks again, in the 80's he was caught throwing hand grenades into a crowd at an Irish Funeral, after being let out he stormed the parliament in an attempt to blow up all the politicians.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIrgm4eQEPs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDdimLC9ZU
I just wasn't sure. Even though I like Ireland and have a lot of heritage and some family there, I don't really follow their news. Except for that bullshit call that kept them out of the world cup.
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Don't you get it?
There are millions and millions of people around the world who think atheists ARE dangerous and immoral; they don't understand. Simply educating them about the issues is, arguably, something worthwhile.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Hi Butterbattle, nice post. I think that you might have taken some of the things that I said out of context though. I can understant a person speaking against evolution because it directly screws with their believe in God and if you believe in God then there can be nothing else. I'm not saying thats how I feel, I am just saying that I can see the other side of the argument. Global warming I am actually with you on that, I imagine people probably speak out about it because its wrong then we don't have to stop buying petrol, I don't know, thats just a guess, an example in reverse is that I actually an atheist yet I am speaking out against atheists? Why? Because I find the tone used to be obnoxious and disrespectful.
Regarding pledging allegiance to Hitler, if that was part of your pledge I would imagine that it would have been removed a long time ago, obviously there is a problem with pledging allegiance to God and Country because you don't believe in God, but from what I gathered people were saying that you had the choice not to pledge or to leave out the God part but atheists wanted it taken out of the pledge completely, I have since been told that this is not the case.
Regarding beliefs the answer is yes, but I can only speak for myself on that matter. I didn't feel any different about it, but then again I am kinda funny that way.
Regarding the last statement, I think I need to clarify that because it seems to have been completely taken out of context. an example if I may... say you have two guys, both of them are apprentice plumbers and one of them is barely able to keep up with the course load while the other not only excels but is left thinking, "Why didn't I go to college and become an engineer instead, I am certainly smart enough" even though there is no doubt which one of these guys is more intellectual, but which one made the smarter decision in becoming a plumber? In this context I was stating that because the RRS guys seem to have made better interpretations of religious doctrine, surely the guys with faith and therefore use of that knowledge would be better served with it rather than the guys who believe it all to be a bunch of hutch?
Hi again, yeah I was already talking to someone about this, in short I still don't get the need to educate people about anything. The beautiful thing about being an Atheist is that you don't really have to do anything, you don't have to practise your faith in seclusion, you don't have to go to questionable clubs to engage in sexual activities with a member of the same sex and you don't have to learn 101 ways to blow yourself up and practise safe sex with 70 virgins, so educating people to accept you for who you are when there is no way in hell that they would even know unless you told them, suggests to me that you would only tell them to be open about your lack belief in God, I just don't understand why thats so important to you, its not to me.... Thats why I'm curious. Someone explained it earlier as if Atheists were like people who don't collect stamps, which I thought was a good analogy, I don't invite people over to show them my lack of a stamp collection.
Yeah, I don't talk about that anymore... I may even go as far as boycotting my gillette razor for a few weeks.
So, just as you feel you should speak out "against atheists" because you "find the tone used to be obnoxious and disrespectful", we speak out against Theists because we find the way they mostly regard Atheists is far worse in "tone" than merely "obnoxious and disrespectful", it can be downright threatening at times. That is apart from all the things they do to influence the government, etc.
So surely you understand just why we speak out - by your own logic, we have more reason to speak out against Theists than you do against us.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I don't even in the slightest bit understand. Being outspoken about your lack of religious belief is kind of like being outspoken about being straight. Nobody probably even noticed till you started making all the noise. Do you really think that there were people in your community saying "You know, I didn't see Bob in Church this week? Didn't see him last week either? Something very fishy is going on here!!!"
I just think that we are on a different page is all, anyway thats me done for a few days, I gotta go to Germany. They do great beer in Germany...