Alchoholics anonomous and religion in clubs and organisations
Posted on: December 31, 2009 - 9:53pm
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Alchoholics anonomous and religion in clubs and organisations
Recently I discovered the ridiculous nature of AA and other organizations such as scouts and many other clubs. Although not as serious here in Aus I would like anyone, especially Yanks (slang for Americans) to post on why they think that religion has been able to dig into and stay in these clubs. Also do you think that these groups should be given government funding and special privileges (such as scouts using national parks) even though they contain religious concepts and discrimination (openly gay people can not join scouts).
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Sorry Demon Lord but most of these service organization AA YMCA YWCA YMHA YWHA where started up and run by religions for decades, lately for financial reasons they have become more secular here in North America they do recieve tax breaks. And sometimes govrnment contracts. I can only speak for the so small town I grew up in; The town was so small the schools were forced to bus us to the YMCA in Bangor for what amounted to gym class twice a week. Religion was never mentioned and we could see the dust outlines of crosses on the locker room walls, they had been removed because of the contract. I heard that the Bangor YMCA at least never put the religious symbles back up.
The Boy scouts & Girl scout created by Lord Baden-Powell was ment to be a Church of England Sunday school meets the British Army, non CoE's weren't even allowed in the first troops. They moved away from religious bigotry in the first decade Some of the religio stuff still exists but each year it gets less and less. They get tax breaks also.
As for AA it was started up by two born again drunks, their dogmas prove that easy enough but at least here in the GTA there are secular orgs that a court will recognize.
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Well, to expand on that.
No, I don't think the scouts and AA and other organizations that espouse excluding any class of people should be allowed to use government buildings or receive government funding. I think we are stuck with them in the parks and forests. I can't think of any way to keep them out. That includes groups that exclude religious or theist people. Sorry - exclusion is exclusion is exclusion. And it ain't right!
The groups you referenced - AA and scouts - are very old and religion was more embedded in every day life. I remember being a Camp Fire Girl and religion being mentioned a few times, but I largely ignored it. My husband was a Boy Scout and his troupe never discussed religion - but then, his dad ran the group and he is an atheist from long ways back. When we looked into our son joining a troupe, we left the initial meeting before it was sign up time. The leader was aggressively theist and challenged anyone who wasn't to not bother signing up. So we left.
But back to history - these groups were founded when most people - unfortunately just like today - believed that religion was the answer to all bad behavior. Additionally, that belief system was also still enshrined in law. The guy-in-the-sky would take an interest in you and actively assist you. The judge and jury usually believed if you just "saw the light" you could be reformed. Remember, belief does not have to be founded in fact or experience. Actually, I saw an article on the internet not too long ago. If you are an alcoholic and atheist or agnostic, and join AA with the pressure to espouse theist belief, you may be under more stress than if you are in a program that does not include the religious pressure. And people who get treatment without religious involvement are just as likely to recover as people who swallow the guy-in-the-sky fantasy.
I have a friend who is a recovering alcoholic. She decided she had to have a spiritual belief in something to recover and she says she kept trying various belief systems out until she found one she liked. She is one of the least religious believers I have ever met. But we still occasionally clash. For her, the belief provided a basis for recovery. And so it worked for her. I don't have the problem, but I can't imagine that theistic belief would assist me to recovery in any way.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
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