Texas in the news again...
Offline http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/texas-racist-laws-drinking-while-brown
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A half-dozen police cruisers, an unmarked sedan, and the prisoner van slid to a stop in front of the Rainbow Lounge, Fort Worth's newest gay club, at about 1:30 a.m. on June 28, 2009—40 years, almost down to the minute, after New York City police raided the Stonewall Inn with billy clubs and bullhorns. Inside the bar, the officers fanned out, grabbing and arresting six patrons for public intoxication. Benjamin Guttery, a 24-year-old Army vet, says an officer told him to put down his drink, then "bulldozed" him through the crowd to the paddy wagon but then let him go. "I'm 6'8", 250 pounds, and I had just finished my second drink," Guttery told a local reporter. "I might have had enough to have a loose tongue, but not a loose walk or anything like that." Another man alleges that he was slammed against a wall, elbowed, and fell on the ground, landing him in intensive care for a week with bleeding in his brain. He was charged with public intoxication and assault.
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A Houston defense attorney, who asks to be unnamed since he specializes in misdemeanors such as PI, puts it this way: "If you're brown and you're around—you're going down."
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Texas is in the news a lot for homophobia and racism. They are now doing bar raids again though? I thought the lesson had been learned about this?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
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I urge all gay organizations and supporters to contact local media and government officials to appeal to them to investigate this.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I'm not gay. But if these thugs come into my favorite watering hole with their handcuffs, tasers, truncheons and bully tactics; well after I've had a few drinks it could be fun.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Old news is old.
This was also the 90th anniversary of the start of World War One.
This was also the day that Billy Mays died.
One wonders what the officers had in mind? I give you some ideas:
I invite you to pick the option that is at least probable.
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I think it was pointing out irony, not suggesting any cause and effect...
You sound like a prick. I don't know if you were making an attempt at humor.
The news isn't old. They are rounding up minorities in bars still. That is the reason for the article.
But I suppose brown people are more likely to be drunk in a bar, right?
Can you honestly not see that a gay bar being raided by cops would make the gay community think of Stonewall? Let alone on the anniversary of it.
What is your problem, exactly?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Clockcat, I am not siding with Gene or you when I say this.
I get accused as the minority atheist on a local website ALL THE TIME as "What is your deal, you're an atheist, get over it, s", all the time. They don't understand why I post so much on the subject. They want me to remain quiet and never bring it up. Just like you seem to be accusing Gene of saying "what's your deal"?
But what bothers me with YOU, and only you, is that you seem to think that the wrongful treatment of gays entitles you to be the only label ever to know what pain is.
WE ARE ON YOUR SIDE! Gene is an atheist. He certainly doesn't know what it is like being gay.
HIS POINT AND MY POINT would be FIGHT THESE PEOPLE, but dont keep yourself in victim status by setting up a taboo where no one has the right to criticize you.
If I had a nickle for all the fallacious and ignorant things the theists on that local board said about me, I'd make Bill Gates look like a street bum.
Neither Gene or I know what you have been through personally. But you are not the only one who has suffered pain. Pain is pain and every human suffers in some way and no one's label is an entitlement to lay claim that they are the only ones who suffer.
I DO UNDERSTAND, not being gay, but what it is like to see something others don't see and the desire to shout from the rooftops. I drive them nuts over there. What I don't do is demand their silence.
WE NEED YOUR VOICE. But what I don't think you should do in all this is the same thing theists do in setting yourself up without realizing it, a taboo, as if that will solve your problems. Theists expect special status. I don't think we need to take the same tactic they do.
If this bar was proven to be raided for the reasons you claim, THEN IT SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED and those who authorized it should be punished.
Maybe falsely, Gene is thinking that our society is more beyond the issue than you do, and thus his response. But he is on your side. And I am too.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I actually think Gene was just trying to be funny, HOWEVER...
As a person with privileges in our society, you do not get to tell Clock how he's "supposed" to act or react. We've been playing by your rules for the past 1500 years, quite long enough. It's like a man telling a woman she should not be pro-choice: until you magically grow a uterus, kindly stfu. I had to learn this the hard way from Feminists, and clearly you do, too. If you really are as open-minded as you claim, then open your ears and listen to what Clock has to say rather than trying to control how he behaves. You might learn something.
What?
I wasn't telling him how he was supposed to react. How did you glean that?
What do you mean "my rules"? Where did that come from? I don't own this website, nor did I write the Constitution for that matter.
Thank you for the update.
You did read the part where I talked about the theists at the local website who constantly condemned me because I wasn't following their script? You did read that part? He is in the same boat. He doesn't follow a majority script. I am not asking him to, much less me.
All I said was that he was not special. And advised him that maybe he'd do better without the same taboo special treatment tactic theists use.
Did you miss the part where I said " WE NEED YOUR VOICE?"
HE CAN DO WHAT HE WANTS,
The more gays speaking out the better! My only issue is TACTIC! Not intent.
He seems to think that if we are all forced to only say nice things about each other all humanity's problems will be solved. I think that creates more problems than it solves. And this is not about gays, or atheists or Muslims or Jews or ANYONE!
If he finds a partner and gets married I'll be his best man!
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/
And the point of that?
Maybe I am missing the point of that.
Is this where you accuse me of treating gays being "tokens"?
Sorry, won't work.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
LOL Hopeless.
Please explain this to me.
That I don't see human empathy as a "warm fuzzy" utopia? That I see that trying to silence people because they don't like you fails to take into account that you yourself don't like people? Should we all walk on eggshells? Or should we get it out in the open where it can be dealt with?
You are stuck on "gay" as a label when I see humans behaving the same way. IT SUCKS when people don't like you. IT SUCKS when they say mean things about you.
BUT do not think that you are special. Any given thing you say about others WILL BE even if it is not your intent, be taken as "hate". WE ALL DO IT!
Atheists by proxy of label do not make us super human or immune to the same emotions or actions as those outside our label.
If labels are what we are to get beyond, taboos are the worst way to get beyond them.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I was more upset that he seemed to be attempting to mock the plight of others who are in a disadvantaged situation. I find that unsettling.
No one said anything about a "victim" status.
I think they shouldn't be able to arrest people in bars period for drinking. That is asinine. The fact this was publicized a year ago after they hit a gay bar (the exact same thing that incited the stonewall riots, AND on it's anniversary) and the gays all went to the media is why they haven't been hitting the gay bars there since.
However, it is still happening to the non-white people in that area. The cops busting people in bars is targeted nearly exclusively against "unwanted" minorities. Basically, the cops have been given the right to arrest anyone in a bar, and use it selectively with great prejudice.
That is messed up and warrants attention. This is the reason to the article. It is an update showing there is still a problem.
I cannot fathom why Gene posted what he did.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Text is hard to interpret. I think as someone else said Gene was merely "wink wink" attempting to be sarcastic. Maybe you could make a case that his delivery and word choice wasn't clear enough.
Clock, I am not disputing what you are saying. But I think sometimes you lump all jokes in with South Park style jokes and lump it up with bigots. I think it is perfectly ok to joke about oneself when it is not done out of hate.
You don't seem to understand that there is a difference between bad humor or ill timed humor and bigoted humor.
You are RIGHT in posting this story and bigotry is a problem. I just don't think you need to bite everyone's head off because you don't like some else's joke.
Cut Gene some slack, he votes Republican for Thor's sake! But I doubt seriously he thinks he'd get cooties if you hugged him.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Then I must be a prick.
OK, the news is eight months old. I was not aware that there was an arbitrary cutoff date before which old news was not considered old. What is in some of the more recent news articles on the matter is the fact that people were arrested because they were too drunk to drive and half a dozen of them have been charged over the matter.
Huh? I thought that this was about the place being a gay bar. Now it is about blacks?
Oh I would imagine that the patrons at the bar probably had something going on that night in memory of the occasion. The event would be significant to them after all. However, I really don't see that the officers involved would have been motivated by that fact. From all the news stories that I could find on the matter, there is an appearance that the bars in that area were about to close for the night and the officers just picked that one because it was close by where they had already done some earlier raiding.
I don't understand the question. Would you care to try again?
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Clock, I think Gene was saying that maybe you were reading more into this raid than was actually there. Again, I don't think he is downplaying discrimination of any kind and I am quite sure he is against it.
I myself was caught in a raid in a parking lot where I used to live. Now they didn't actually go into the bar, the cops sat out side waiting for people to stumble to their cars and start them. Like a dipshit I stayed and talked to some idiots drinking in the parking lot. Three cop cars surrounded us and I was asked to "step out of your car". I was administered the roadside, and passed. The two men and one women I was talking to were arrested for DIP.
But I had always heard rumors long before that night that cops often watched that bar. But they also watched another rock band bar a couple blocks down.
NOW, in your defense, I can't say that there isn't something going on. I currently live in a notorious corrupt county. We even had a chief indicted on embesselment charges a couple years back.
I used to live in Fairfax county Va back in the 90s. I came upon a car crash where a guy had tried to make a sharp left at a "T" intersection and was going too fast and hit a telephone poll. I didn't see the crash but came upon it right after it happened. As I tried to pull him out, because I thought (turned out to be smoke from the air bags) the car might be on fire. As I was pulling him out, I noticed he was a local cop. ON TOP OF THAT, I noticed a bottle of booze on the floor of his car.
MONTHS LATER after being called to his hearing as a witness, another cop whom I had never seen walked up to me in the gallery and said, "Mr(last name) we wont need you to testify." I didn't stick around to find out if they were going to actually call me because I knew they were sweeping this under the rug.
I think Genes point is just because it is a gay bar doesn't mean that gays cant or dont get drunk or rowdy like the rest of us. I am quite sure there are plenty of gay bars as well where cops don't raid them. We are all human. In your defense we cant say that something isn't going on either because bigotry does exist and corruption can and does exist.
If any system IS being honest, and there are plenty around the country, then the law enforcement is merely going where they notice an ongoing problem. Otherwise the bar I was given the roadside at wouldn't have attracted the police.
I say push it and make it an issue in that particular local to MAKE SURE that all it is is a bar raid, but don't assume that because it is a gay bar that they are targeting them because they are gay. If bigotry and corruption are going on it most certainly needs to be dealt with.
I hope I am being fair to both sides here.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
AND there IS locally where I live a sports bar NOTORIOUS for drunken fights. I stopped going to it because some dipshit pissed in front of me IN FRONT OF THE BAR. And on top of that every time I went to watch a football game someone was getting obnoxious with others or trying to start fights. Cops are ALWAYS in that place. AND that IS NOT a gay bar.
Without knowing the history of that particular bar, or that local or it's law enforcement, I cant take sides. I can say that bars of all kinds that have histories of drunken fights and drunk drivers get far more attention.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
This article wasn't about gay bars being busted. It was discussing that as an event within the last year to show the behavior of the police, because it is still happening. To other minorities in the region.
It is discussing this as an ongoing problem. It clearly states it is talking about brown people continuing to be targeted after the gay bar raid brought attention to the matter: A Houston defense attorney, who asks to be unnamed since he specializes in misdemeanors such as PI, puts it this way: "If you're brown and you're around—you're going down."
It sounds like Gene didn't read the article and just went off half-cocked over a gay bar, erecting a wall of text and sounding like a prick. Maybe he just needed to blow off his steam to settle down though.
I think the ability for cops to arrest people inside bars for drinking is pretty insane regardless. The whole story is news to me, including the event that happened last year with the gay bar, and that Texas cops are allowed to arrest people for drinking INSIDE bars. I don't see how bars can even stay in business there with something like that allowed.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Jesus Christ everyone is prickly lately.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Ok, fair enough. I don't think he was being a prick as much as I am guilty of myself sometimes, reading quickly and getting on auto pilot.
BUT, did you ever think that the owners of private businesses give cops an open invitation to come in, which is legal, because the owners don't want to get harassed by the patrons trying to get even with them for calling the cops. I bet anything that sports bar I talked about earlier is one of those. You get a bunch of drunk people who think they own the world because they paid for something into one bar. I have seen that attitude countless times and color or sexuality have nothing to do with it.
The bar I was talking about caters jock frat boy washout wannabes suffering from a mid life crisis. Liquid courage trumps race and class.
Cops are often given permission by private property owners to come and go as they please. On several occasions at that bar cops walked in.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Why would a bar owner invite cops with the intent to harass their customers? Especially the ones that just got there? I can't comprehend a reason for this.
You act like these people are being drunk and rowdy, and the bar is trying to get rid of them. That clearly isn't the case. They didn't use their bouncers, and they didn't call the cops. No one employed at the bars there said anything about being fearful of calling the cops. Nor did they seem to give permission. In fact, the bar mentioned in the article had just recently opened and was scared of losing customers after that. Why would they be worried about calling the cops?
None of your points make any sense. What gives cops the right to barge into bars and arrest people for drinking, at a place designed for drinking?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Clock, I just told you WHY. Any business owner who doesn't want their place wrecked by rowdy customers ALSO doesn't want those same rowdy people coming after them for calling the cops.
Bars are for drinking, BUT there are tons of people who can't handle their booze and will fight at the drop of a hat. Some bars gain a bad reputation because of chronic problems and the owners fear reprisals.
Now again, I am not specifically addressing YOUR story you posted here. I am strictly speaking about the TONS of bars I have been in in my life. Some were very scary as far as the amount of people with liquid courage. Needless to say I didn't stay in those bars long.
Again, I cannot speak specifically about this particular case. I can say that SOME BARS and and SOME locations even just a street or a block in a city can gain a reputation. I also said that IF there is discrimination going on here in the case you are talking about, IT SHOULD be investigated and prosecuted.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog