How open are you about your atheism and when?
Offline I'm very open about my atheism, I never hide it, and will talk about it even if it makes deluded creanderthals uncomfortable. But not all atheists are like me in the in-your-face dept. So how do you handle situations where religion is brought up. I'm curious as to what you all would consider an appropriate and inappropriate time to discuss it and why? We may have our similarities, but we all have our differences as well and I think this would be an interesting discussion on the tactics of advancing atheism.
So how do you respond in these kinds of situations?
"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!
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My close friends and family know I am atheist. I generally avoid discussion of religion or lack there of with other people.
I don't like confrontation. I'm guessing you may not believe this, but face-to-face, no.
At work, I don't want to get into who is causing whom a hostile work environment. And, it changes how your co-workers interact with you. I am IT, so I am a member of a service organization. I have to deal with everyone in the company at one time or another. I would just as soon they didn't have negative thoughts about me before they even pick up the phone. I try to maintain a "nice lady" persona at work at all times. Being out about being an atheist would not further that goal.
If confronted - by JW or LDS at my house, freaky preachers on street corners - I'll tell them to shove it up their ass and move on.
Rarely, I will get into a serious discussion about religion. Then I will present my reasons and be willing to fight for the cause of rationalism and atheism. But I'm not often in the mood.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
When I do customer service work like sales calls if it comes up I just let it go, as after all I'm trying to get their money. When it comes up in other situations I don't look to argue but I won't back away either.
I found a few years ago the best way to get rid of Mormons, JWs, 7th Day Adventists etc that ring my doorbell is to be a raving Catholic extremist. When you turn on them calling them heretics following them down the street telling them they are false Christians, idolaters and have turned on the True Church they are clueless how to respond. It helps to drop to your knees and ask Mary to intercede on the behalf of the heretics that are denigrating Jesus and the True Church. You can also pray to any saint and it freaks them out. You can also explain to them they are lucky its not the 15th century or they'd be burned at the stake for the heresy they are spreading. I have got them to run for their cars and cease their solicitation more than once.
When I used to tell them I was an Atheist and argue with them they put me on a weekly solicitation.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
On my job, it's a cat and mouse thing. They all know it, I'm the manager, however were I to actually push it too much I would be "let go".
In my life outside my job I don't give a expletive. I have an evolved fish emblem eating a "jesus" fish on the back of my car and I was thinking of pushing that further with one of those nice red "A" symbols. I certainly don't mind people knowing, and I actually rather they did know. I look like an average joe and it throws them when they find out I'm an atheist. They expect people with crazy hair tons of face piercings and things of this nature it seems.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Ah well,for the most part, it simply is not something that comes up in the general conversation. So there is no point in laying the matter out for people. That is what theists do. Since I am not a theist, I see little point in making a big deal over the matter.
I suspect that quite a few of my co-workers are on the same team but they also do not wear their heart on their sleeve so why bother?
Past that, the question depends on the situation. Remember that in reality, political agendas are not the same thing as religious agendas. That being said, there are many people on all sides that think that they are. Really they are not.
So I am a delegate to my local RTC and a tea party member. If that throws you for a loop, well, fuck you. Even so, I don't make a big deal over the matter around people who I know will not be cool with it.
That much being said, I grew up less than a mile from the studio where Gutzon Borglum designed Mount Rushmore. So who did he include as the greatest of Americans?
George Washington. His Freemason apron is in the Smithsonian. He would be subject to automatic excommunication for that.
Thomas Jefferson. He appears to have been a Unitarian. Even so, he wrote the letter to the Danbury baptists where the idea of the separation of church and state originates.
Teddy Roosevelt: I am not sure where he stood as far as religion goes but he did manage to piss off the Republican party enough that they made him the vice president in an attempt to kill his political career. Too bad for them that McKinley was assassinated. Now there is this thing called the Panama Canal.
Abraham Lincoln. Every religion claims him but the weight of the evidence suggests that he was an atheist. He was also the first republican.
Umm, why am I spotty on the whole thing about democrats being automagically correct on everything?
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Ah well, let me share this story then.
Since I live in a condo, the fundies can't get in to knock on doors very easily. However, one time it happened. As luck has it, I was on my way out the door at the time, so the fist fell through where it was supposed to knock. Further, it happened that I was wearing a T-shirt with a full size Baphomet. In case you don't know, that is the inverted star with the goat head that is supposed to be the sign of Satan.
The conversation went something like this (I will assume they were JW because I can't say different):
JW: (fist falls through the door)
Me: Opens the door wearing an obviously satanic shirt.
JW: can we tell you about god?
Me: I don't think so.
JW: wanders off.
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I'm pretty open. I don't actively bring it up with people, but if the topic comes up I'm not shy about expressing my views and where I come from. I think everyone at work knows where I stand. It doesn't really have any negative impact, although some conversations with my conservative xtian coworker get pretty intense it doesn't seem to bother the boss.
On the back of my car I have an evolved fish mounting a Jesus fish. The only reactions I've noticed so far have been positive (i.e. catching people looking at it in the rear view and laughing). But I live in the Seattle where we have a pretty high concentration of non-religious people. I haven't driven out to more conservative areas with it.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
I used to have a handout I made up for the JWs when they came to my door with their watchtower bullshit. It listed the 101 myths of the Bible, with evidance supporting they were bullshit. I used to live about 6 blocks from a JW church, 6 blocks from a Mormon church, and 4 blocks from a 7th day adventist and a Southern baptist. Their minions would just saturate our neighborhood especially around any religious holiday.
After I moved I tried the raging extremeist Catholic approach on some Mormons first and followed them down the sidewalk ranting at them. None have ever come back.
When I was about 18, I was working on my car replacing a brake line when some JWs came up and started in on me. I told them I was busy. They kept at it. I noticed one had his shoe just next to my front tire, so I loosened the brake hose and squirted fluid all over his shoe. They then decided I was too busy and left.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
So rape is something that “just happens” and you need to accept the matter?
Don't get me wrong here. Priests buggering 14 year old boys is a very different thing. However, I can't figure out a better word. If I am subject to an assault on my mind, what should that be called?
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An assault with intent to do bodily harm.
Religious prothesizing should be at least a misdeamnor. $500 fine for first offense, 40 hours of community service at the local stables. Since they spout shit they might as well shovel it.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
It's not a secret, I just don't go broadcasting it every chance I get. If I'm asked directly about it I'll answer truthfully, but there are certain situations where I just won't talk about it. One of those is the workplace. There are a few Christians there who are preachy. In fact, one of the maintenance managers always has creationist pamphlets laid out on his desk for people to take. I think it's inappropriate, but I'm not really bothered by it, either. I hate it when people complain about being forcibly confronted with things they're uncomfortable with. I'm definitely in the "be an adult and deal with it" camp. The fact is where I work, seriously discussions about religion tend to make everybody feel uncomfortable, so I avoid the subject. I let the fundies be as pushy as they want, but I'm not going to stoop to their level.
My immediate family knows, and limits contact with me for that reason. My wife's family also knows but we don't really talk about it. My wife is an apatheist while the rest of the family falls into the category of "general Protestant Christianity." In fact, the most religious relatives in my wife's family are so liberal they accept evolution and support gay marriage. One even posted a link Sam Harris' video about morality and science on Facebook.
As someone who was raised to start unwanted conversations with people about religion (I was raised a Jehovah's Witness), I honestly hate it now and try to avoid it at all costs. Besides, I think the people I've surrounded myself with are representative of how I wish the rest of society would be. My in-laws are believers, but it's such a relatively (relative to fundamentalist Christians) minor part of their lives that it just doesn't enter into the conversation that often. How great a world it would be where religion is only a personal thing and just isn't important enough to divide families and cause conflict. I'm not looking forward to the end of religion necessarily (although I wouldn't mind if that happened), I'm hoping for a world where it just doesn't matter.
Very open, and "whenever someone asks about my belief system"
I shield the seniors in my family, though
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
I work a lot with the general public, many of whom come from small towns where you can be 99% sure they're probably believers and almost as sure they're christians. It doesn't come up in my line of work anyway, but it would be extremely unwise for me to mention anything that might be controversial in any way. Some times I allow my political beliefs to slip out, but even that can cause problems.
None of my close friends are particularly religious, so we usually have a plethora of far more interesting things to talk about. It never really comes up, so I feel no particular need to make a big announcement.
My mother? Eh, I just sigh to myself when she thanks Jesus for providing her with a good parking space and let her be happy. Saying more would have no effect whatsoever except to break her heart into a million pieces, and for no good reason.
If you can easily post this list, I'd be curious to see it. I've lived in NYC for almost twenty years, and it wasn't until moving into my current (mostly blue-collar) neighborhood that I encountered prosthelytizing of any kind. It's kind of a shock, actually. It's almost always the same two old ladies, and I usually just thank them for their brochure and take it straight over to the garbage can.
I'm typically not very open about it. Whenever the conversation turns to religion, I definitely give the non-religious impression, however. If the conversation lasts long enough, then I'll eventually say that I am an atheist. I feel that saying it from the get-go is likely to cause problems, whereas the impression of 'non-religious but maybe spiritual' leads to better discussion.
My Website About Roller Coaster Design
I'll look and see if I can find it, it was several computers ago and several OS upgrades. I do save all sorts of stuff like this and copy over. The question is where.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
all the time and am well known for getting into discussions about it. I don't fight so much with mum because it makes her upset. My brothers are as insistent about god's reality as I am about his absence.
I talk about it in cabs, pubs, business situations, with strangers and whatever. If I know someone is godly I can't help twitting them about it by calling god or the bible or koran into question.
I have some friends who are over it and I can't raise it with them any more. Fortunately I can drone on about it here. Thanks, RRS. You rock.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I am also quite vocal about it in nearly every situation. Here in the southern US, it mostly comes in the form of defending science facts. You won't believe the level of ignorance in the southern US. Therefore most of my atheism comes in the form of ridiculing irrational statements. I don't know what the effect truly is, but I try my hardest to put barbs on my seeds of doubt.
A daughter of hope and fear, religion explains to Ignorance the nature of the unknowable. -Ambrose Bierce
I never bring up the subject but I respond quickly when someone else starts it. I lilt my voice to sound like an adult talking to a five-year-old (to real children I speak in a normal voice) I ask directly if they also believe in Santa Claus, Zeus and the easter bunny. This useually stops the religious conversation not so much because they think I'm right but because I am LARGE and I have a basso/baritone voice which I'm not afraid to use at full volume towards childish adults.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Excellent image arises...
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
So I don't agree with your politics, and I can assure you, you would disagree with mine... oh well. That doesn't mean we can't work together towards our common ground of science and reason.
I'm an anarcho-syndicalist, so most people for some reason think of me as "liberal" <shudder> and are surprised and confused when my roommate and I go out target shooting and I'm open about my interest in firearms. In the Seattle area, that's like saying you eat babies to most people! So I deal with people being confused about me and my "supposed contradictions" as well. "PEOPLE ARE NOT ONE DIMENSIONAL!" is what I want to scream while I shake them chaotically. Oh well...
I agree completely, just not enough to think the republicans are correct either! XD
Hey dude, I live in Everett! What part of Seattle do you live?
Besides the religious family bit, we seem to be on the same page when it comes to publicly confronting religion and it's duped followers. We may be separated by half the globe, but solidarity goes a long way!
Dude, it's not just the south. Here in the Seattle area, it's defending science from the new age kookology. So it's not that different.
You don't know how many expatriate southerner's we have here. From the MANY stories I have heard, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Appalled, yes, surprised, no.
I think the Santa Clause/Easter Bunny thing is a good tactic, since it's so hard for theists to put their deiti(es) into the "fantasy" category on their own, even for the sake of argument. Once you say that though, it forces them to realize that not everyone thinks that their imaginary sky daddy exists.
To all: Thanks for the feedback. It's always interesting to see how others would react in the same kind of situations. I know I may be one of the more in-your-face types here, so it's interesting to hear the variety of atheist tactics to deal with religious people and situations.
"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!
Currently I live in Kent.
That or the people who think we should try to play nice and not rock the boat. "Just sit quietly and wait your turn. They'll come around."
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
Three teens knocked on my door today. A guy and two girls, the guy introduced himself and the girls by name and then said they were from "the life tabernacle".
He asked if I had anything I would like them to pray for. (oh man that opens up so many possibilities)
I keep "the god delusion" and "god is not great" as well as two different bibles on this end table by my front door, parshally in preparation for these people. But they were kids and I just told them no, I'm an atheist. They said ok and left. I would normally whoop out my fine literature and ask if I could help them.
But today I failed.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Personally I am very open about it, however I don't go looking for confrontations either, although I do go to some event in which I know there will be religious fundies and go to just rile them up (Pride parade is always a great time, they come out of the wood works....the nuttier ones). It is also known at the church/community centre that I volunteer at (helping kids stay/get out of gangs) that I am an atheist, and everyone is respectful of that, well for the most part most people are. However I have never had an issue telling/explain why I am an atheist, and how ridiculous the claims of god are for me.
I too am in the southern U.S. Just below the Bible belt buckle and a little to the right. lol
My biggest outlet is the comment section to articles on my citys newspaper website. Most people don't talk about religion at all, and I only do when someone tries to prove a point with a bible quote.
Sometimes I just respond with a bible quote that contradicts their bible quote, but then sometimes I use my own brain cells and just share my view.
My parents and friends know....but its not a popular topic and none of them are fanatics so there no friction there
Just this year I discovered my father is an Atheist....but he just keeps it to himself and never said one discouraging word during my stint as a half ass christian.
Jehovahs Witnesses ha! A few years back 2 young guys knocked on my door wearing ties and bike helmets.....they said "Hi we are Jehovahs witnesses....we couldnt help but hear Bob Marley music playing from your apartment so we KNEW we had to stop here.....I was too high to listen to really take offense at the time so I just made an appointment for them to come back and probably tell me how my choice in music among other things was leading me on a road to hell that the God they are whores for created.
I "forgot" to be home the day of the appointment......I hope they forgave me.
Stephen King"The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window." -Stephen King
I never mention it unless someone tries to talk about religion with me. I will usually tell them where to find certain things they are talking about in the Bible or provide other verses or contexts to back up what they believe. I will talk with them for awhile like another theist would until they ask me about my beliefs. Then I tell them that I don't believe and how they wouldn't either if they would study the Bible and try to live it. I'll tell them about various contradictions and absurdities they will notice by studying it. Usually, that is the last time they mention religion to me.
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe. - Carl Sagan
Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion. - School Superintendent on "The Simpsons" episode #1
It depends on the situation. I let my distant family assume I'm a theist. I also attend Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, where I keep my atheism under wraps. But pretty much everywhere else I'm completely open about it. I try not to argue with people but sometimes I can't help it.
I usually don't talk about atheism unless someone else brings up religion. If someone wants to discuss it with me I will as long as it's not at work. I'm sure people there can guess I'm an atheist, because they see the books I read in the break room, but no one has asked me about it. For long term romantic relationships it's important for me to be with a freethinker. I'd like to have children down the line, and I don't want them to be brought up in superstition. I try to get that out of the way as soon as possible in the beginning of a relationship. In every day life I don't go out of my way to talk about religion, but if someone tries to convert me I think it's perfectly fair to tell them why they're wrong.
... that your arrow isn't a little crooked, sometimes?
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
I try to be polite, I just don't try very hard.
Typically I can talk with anyone about their particular superstition-of-choice but once they get into 'FACTS' as they see them the gloves come off, I get all excited and argumentative.
Just don't be a molsem. That's one faith I start out angry and it goes downhill rapidly from there.
How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais