coming out
Offline Okay, so I'm a new atheist. Until very recently, I was a VERY devout Christian. Most people I've told, mainly friends, in general haven't believed me because I was so devout. Now I'm having a problem with coming out to my mom about it. I've already told my dad, and he's an agnostic, but they're divorced and he wouldn't tell her. Not that I want him to, it's my thing. But the thing is, he can't reason with her after I tell her. On to the problem. My mom isn't what you'd call devout, she just very recently started going to a non-denominational church, and she's very laid back. She cusses on weekdays, and on Sundays, just not in church. I know this isn't a very rational fear, but I'm scared of making her question her faith. Even though I don't believe in a god, it's something that makes up who she is, and it really has helped her. So my question to anyone out there is, how do I tell her? Or do I tell her at all? It's just really stressing me out, because every time she brings something up like that I shy away from the topic. Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!! (:
- Login to post comments
Your dad it right, it is for you to talk with your mom.
I'm a grandma - so I know about moms, having one of my own and being one. And all I can tell you is you are not responsible for your mother's spirituality or lack there of. You can be responsible for your beliefs, but not anyone else. You don't say how old you are, but I'm assuming you are not old enough to live on your own.
You have lots of choices as to whether to tell or not, when to tell, what to say and so on. I can't advise you on any of that as I don't know you or your mother. No matter how much you rehearse a conversation before you have it, it usually never goes the way you rehearsed. And it is always possible for people to change their minds. So during this conversation, keep in mind that it is not the last discussion on the subject you and your mom may have - which may be a good thing.
Do what you need to do and be as honest as you can without being hurtful.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
My parents are still alive and I've never 'come out' to them for similar reasons. I can't think of anything that would be gained by the discussion but I know if would hurt them emotionally (And I like my parents, they are good people).
So I choose to keep my atheism quiet with them. Once they are dead I won't have any issues with being in the closet with the rest of my family. Since I live in a rural area it wouldn't be advantageous to my career to come out there either so...yea, that is why I like boards about atheism. Before, the only people I could talk to about my beliefs were my wife and my brother and it is nice to have a 'community' where you can let that side out.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
I wouldn't make such a big deal about it. Just tell her what you think if she asks. Why bring it up anyway?
Hi. Welcome to Rational Responders.
Based on what you wrote, it seems that your main concern is how this news would affect her? I can't say anything for sure, but if she really just started going to church recently, and she's pretty laid back, then it shouldn't be too bad. I would expect her to accept your atheism.
So, I tentatively think that you should tell her, but I kind of agree with mellestad too.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
I understand where you're coming from. I'm a relatively new atheist as well, and my entire family is religious. I don't believe I'll ever come out to my grandparents because they're very... uh... old-fashioned Christians, and I don't talk to my dad often enough to tell him something like that. It's not really any of his business anyway. But my mom and I are really close and she's not just a Christian, she's been my old church's music minister for most of my life and religion is more than just a weekly trip to a dingy little building to listen to some preacher drone on about Jesus. And I've spent a lot of time wondering and worrying about whether or not I should tell her, and finally I've decided that I'll listen to her when she wants to talk about how God is working in her life, and I'll hold my tongue until she happens to ask my take on the subject. And when that happens, I'll be honest and I believe she'll listen to what I have to say. It will probably hurt her, but I'm hoping not as much as if I just come up to her and say "Oh, by the way, I'm an atheist."
Well said, CJ! It's a shame you don't have greater self esteem regarding your 'personal substance', as it is QUITE potent I assure you!
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Ahh, shucks.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
There is one good thing about the zeitgeist of the west and pluralism. It takes a long time, but with each generation those who feel pressure to "stay in the closet" whatever their label, is becoming smaller and smaller in many locations. It is sad that you can't be honest with your parents without fear, but the good news is that future generations won't have the same baggage our parent's generations did.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
That right there- it's not a very rational fear, because it's just not likely. Remember, your mother was married to your father- doesn't seem like his lack of belief did anything.
Generally, what other people believe doesn't affect what a person wants to believe unless it's a strong majority.
If *everybody* around her was becoming atheist, she might start questioning- but even then it's more likely she would change her faith rather than lose it, retaining precisely what it is she thinks she needs from it.
Any community, hobby, or conviction can help somebody feel happier- from religion to underwater basket weaving clubs.
Don't assume an either-or here; there are so many things she could get into- and possibly things with you!- that could also help her.
You might want to look into secular humanism, perhaps.
If this is stressing you out, you *definitely* need to tell her. Once the cat is out of the bag, that's it- even if you decide not to tell her, there's no way that can be as final as telling her. Just resolve it and get it over with- however you have to.
If you are worried about causing your mother to lose faith, just tell her before hand that you need to tell her something, because you want her to know, but that you don't want to talk about it after that (avoiding explaining it), and extract her promise that she won't press the issue. Otherwise she's liable to ask questions, the answers to which would lead to discussion and consequential debunking of her beliefs.
I can't say I've ever *not* wanted to argue about anything, so I don't have as much experience avoiding discussion- this is, however, something that tends to work.
I was also a pretty devout Christian until a couple of years ago so i can appreciate all you are going through - guilt, anger all the rest....However the more I was honest with myself and the more I told people, the better I felt, many of them Christians. My wife is still Christian (pretty liberal) but we accept each others' beliefs and live with the differences. the main thing here is, i believe, be honest with yourself. Best wishes on what is a great journey.
Hi...and welcome...
Just be honest, and employ tempered reason, an even tone and most importantly...remain rational... You'll be fine...
Hope you enjoy it here
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
We need more Rich Woods in the world.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
I was blunt to my parents and after a month or so it cooled down so
hope all goes well man Gluck
God Forbid.
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
I think you should play down the dramatic side of it a little, perhaps.
Being an atheist is not a question of aquiring an alternative faith, or denying everybody else's right to think and feel whatever they want, rather about being critical towards articles of belief that were imposed upon you by an external authority, probably based in some very common human anxieties about the meaning of life, the nature of death, etc. The thing is, we just don't know. If, upon examining the things that matter to you, you arrive at the conclusion that you need religious faith in order to live, I say go for it. But be honest. It is a matter of personal choice, not a universal truth that could or should be imposed upon other people, and certainly not against their will.
Look at nature. Does the butterfly require a Bible verse to express beauty? Are the birds congregating to worship any Lord? It is problematic to be human, having so much power of imagination and so little intelligence. But critical thinking is a good place to start. Just remember that whatever *you* think and feel should no more be a guiding light for others than the opposite.
"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)
http://www.kinkspace.com
But it's good to see you have a taste for dark comedy
next time you go and see your mom wear a giant "God Doesn't Exist" t-shirt, that should do the trick and you won't have to say a word
no seriously, its a tough predicament, luckily you mom doesnt sound like shes all that devout, ultimately it wont matter that much, shes your mom, shell love you regardless
Err... did you read what you wrote? I'm pretty sure you don't mean that, seriously.
Obviously "should" is a matter of opinion, and that will vary from person to person- I'll take it as your opinion that it shouldn't.
But could? It certainly can be imposed on others against their wills- just about anything can given the right leverage. History has demonstrated this very well- Jihads, Crusades, etc. It could certainly go in the other direction too, if we had the resources to execute it.
I'm pretty sure you mis-spoke, but it definitely *could* be- it's just a matter of opinion as to whether or not it *should* be.
I'm of the opinion that making a big deal about it is kowtowing and lending legitimacy to the idea that it should be a big deal. If your mom is pretty laid back, my suggestion is to be laid back about your stance as well, just be prepared for a discussion.
Ohferchrissakes, shut the hell up, Blake.
Robb
"The general opinion is not always the perfect truth..."
- Giordano Bruno
i'm pretty sure he's talking about the area of someone's personal conviction or "heart," which is damn near impossible to change, regardless of how thoroughly you pound its outer manifestations into conformity.
and i agree with robb: what the fuck is up with the semantics? a young lady is asking for advice here; don't you have any concept of proper time and place?
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)
http://www.kinkspace.com
oook...i even get koans more than most people, but you're gonna have to explain that one to me....
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
"O Brother Where Art Thou?"
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
yeah, thanks, i've seen the film. my question was more along the lines of how the fuck that was apropos to anything i said.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
The heart bit.
How "Oh Brother" is a modern interpretation of The Odyssey.
How not accepting *the common ground of belief* will make you "a man of constant sorrow".
How the journey will be wondrous but painful, magical but alienated.
But at some point even resilience becomes a habit.
So... "run little rabbit run".
"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)
http://www.kinkspace.com
ooook...but my point was that repressive violence almost never affects a change in a person's "heart."
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I understood you perfectly.
My point is that you may be left with no alternative but to *leave* all that which seens familiar and safe to you, scorned by people you grew up with, some times even your own family, only to walk a desert where you have nothing to guide you other than that flame in your heart which desire "the truth", doubting yourself, wishing you could simply rip that splinter of devilish doubt out from your heart, so that you can join the party of happy people who do not ask uncomfortable questions.
"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)
http://www.kinkspace.com
Not true. Conforming social pressures can achieve this. Just drop them in a community where everybody thinks they're nuts, they'll become socially isolated, second guess themselves, and then- particularly if the explanation is simple, and evidently true- those preconceived rationalizations will break down and they'll conform.
That, or potentially anti-psychotics.
Torture itself isn't very effective, as it tends to cause people to close off, but extreme circumstance couples with limited human contact can be.
Methods similar to truly effective interrogation work for indoctrination too. Scientology has gotten it down pretty pat, for one.
There have been over a dozen posts prior- she got her advice. I even offered some myself.
Marquis said something stupid- several stupid things in a row, actually- I addressed one of them.
There is a time and a place for correcting mistakes- and that's within a reasonable time of when the mistakes are made, not after everybody has forgotten them.