What do you say to a friend who just lost a loved one?
Offline Like many others, I've reconnected with a wide circle of friends through the popularity of Facebook. My friends are not fundamentalist nuts, not at all. They're mostly quite liberal and embrace all viewpoints and lifestyles. That's why they're my friends. But last week, an ex-girlfriend's mom died. The sudden outpouring of religious crap was like a burst dam full of raw sewage. Talk of God, heaven and prayers were in every damn posting and response.
I found myself remaining silent. I can hold my nose while this all blows over, but what on Earth am I supposed to say to my ex? "My condolences"? That's something you say when you really don't know the people involved. But this was a girl I spent two years of my life with and spent many days at her home with her family, including the mother who just passed. We're not close any more, but I can't just say "my condolences".
Death is a big part of life, and religion's biggest draw is probably the (false) comfort it gives when dealing with traumatic loss. As an atheist, I have no idea how to contribute to the comfort and support of the social circle in times like this.
Any suggestions?
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I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
- Douglas Adams, Salmon of Doubt
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No.
You have to figure out how to express yourself on your own.
It is a big cop-out to ask for "hints".
Just be honest. Say what you truly feel.
"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)
http://www.kinkspace.com
That really, really, really sucks.
:'(
My condolences.
You are in my thoughts.
If there is anything I can do, let me know.
I'm sorry (person), I know you really loved your (dead person) and everyone will miss them a lot.
Your (relative) was very (platitude) and I feel (emotion) right now.
I remember when (relative) did (anecdote) and it made us all (happy or thoughtful idea or sentiment).
Stuff like that. Nothing you say will really help, but you express your empathy so the person in question can feel supported by their personal community, which might help stabilize their emotional state. Expressing your empathy also helps you, because you can feel like you contributed in some small way. I know it sucks, because you wish you could do more. If you were still around, you could give her a hug, talk to her, take her somewhere to remember her mom (or not), stuff like that. But over the net I'm not sure what you can do besides the usual, 'that sucks' stuff.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Yeah, mellestad, that's pretty much what I had come up with. I'm going with "I'm really sorry for your loss. I know you two were close. If there's any way I can help, let me know." It just doesn't seem like enough somehow. I guess my religious upbringing still has some lingering aspects I hadn't noticed before. All the words just feel like greeting card nonsense now.
Marquis, if you ever need help with anything, be sure not to come to me. Figure it out on your own.
This isn't just about a little note to send to an old friend, it's about the larger issue of how atheists deal with the social issues surrounding death. In my ideal future, all religion will be regarded with the same dismissal we have toward the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian gods. But when that day comes, what will we say to someone who is crying at their loved one's deathbed? Nobody will be saying "She's gone to a better place." But we're sure not going to be so cruel as to say "She's gone, get over it." Is the best thing we can say something like "I'm here for you"? It's certainly better than nothing. But are we just going to have to accept the fact that nothing rational will ever come close to the comfort given by religious myths?
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I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
- Douglas Adams, Salmon of Doubt
I will. I always have. It works better that way.
If you think about it, you don't need any help. Just naked honesty.
If you *care* then that is what you should express. If not, not.
"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)
http://www.kinkspace.com
You might find something along those lines here: www.rationalresponders.com/forum/19044 www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18936
We delved into some pretty deep stuff on the first one particularly.
"There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must do it because Conscience tells him it is right." Martin Luther King
Having been at the receiving end of condolences and on the giving end of condolences, all I can say is try to let the conversation flow into channels the person wants to talk about. Admittedly, this is a lot easier in person than on line. If you can't visit in person it can be tough.
Personally, I don't do shrines to dead loved ones. When my mom died her ashes where scattered less than a week after I got them. I don't have any thing around the house that reminds me of her. That's just the way I am. But I have friends who have very elaborate shrines to their dead loved ones. If that is so for your friend, and you may contribute, that may be very much appreciated. Flowers, cards, all that will probably be not as special as an old photograph or other momento you unearthed from the box under the bed or off your cd of old photos.
Also, as my mother was dying, many of my family and my mom enjoyed playing the remember when game with me. Mom was in a nursing home for a year. For the last six months, we knew she was dying. So I reminisced with all of them. Mom and her other children and grandchildren, do you remember when and what do you remember? I found it comforting to remember the times she amazed me, made me laugh, loved me. And it was comforting for the other family members as well.
It used to be a common custom to gather around the grave site or at a wake or funeral party and reminisce about good times and bad among family and friends. Better than any empty words of god's plan or meeting in heaven, is the sharing of memories and laughter and tears.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.