Has anyone been converted by this forum??
Posted on: August 4, 2010 - 9:56am
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Has anyone been converted by this forum??
Hey guys,
Been watching this forum for a little while. I've been thinking, since pretty much all theists and athiests I've ever met are very stubborn about their beliefs, are there any people on this forum who have been converted to athiesm from coming to this site? Or even people who have been converted to theistic beliefs?
Also, why are people so damn stubborn about this issue? I mean, from scientologists to athiests, everyone is convinced they are correct. I'm kinda wondering whether its because of indoctrination, or whether its just human nature. But I digress!
S.
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It is if you are not married, or if you even look at another woman with lust when you are. Personally, I only have sex with people I am not married to. And avoiding kids is pretty easy in modern times. But then, I'm going to hell for a lot of other things as well.
Deuteronomy 13:6-9
"If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or you daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying "Let us go and serve other gods," which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers
Of the gods of the pwoplw which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth,
You shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him;
But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be the first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people."
If the bible is the word of god it sure sounds like PEOPLE are supposed to carry out the punishment. It doesn't say "I God will punish those who serve other gods." It says "you shall surely kill him" I agree with you that we should not pass laws based on religion but you are disobeying the bible by not killing us. There are other verses with ridiculous instructions to kill people for stupid things. (Mark 7:10, Mathew 15:4-7 etc)
Yeah, and people also believed the world was flat. When you have a religion that has spent the better part of two thousand years killing people for disagreeing with them are you surprised? Majority opinion has absolutely no bearing on what is true and what isn't. I'll bet the "majority" (Christianity is not a majority of the total world population) hasn't even read the entire bible cover to cover, they believe because of years of indoctrination and selective picking of sermons from the bible.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
I'm reluctant to get into this with you as, judging by your posts, I have a feeling that you are just a high school kid who pastes things from atheist websites without researching things in their proper context. But I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong.
For some reason, you felt the need to repeat what I said and then give me details about your sex life. Why? Do I care?
You are going to Hell if you do not put your faith and trust in Christ because you are born under separation from God. If you have no relationship with God, then it does not matter what you do.
You cannot just paste your way through a theology course. Read some books and then get back to me.
God's has three types of laws: (1) Moral, (2) Ceremonial, and (3) Civil. The moral laws are those which never change, as they are based on the character of God. The ceremonial laws are guiding posts for proper worship. The civil laws were to establish a legal system for the nation of Israel.
The ceremonial and civil laws were only temporary, as they reflected the society at that time. Israel at the time was a theocracy and the laws only applied to them. At the time, they were orders that Jews would understand and obey. These laws were established for the purpose of what was to come.
Our government today is not a theocracy. Therefore, we are not called upon to carry out punishment for sin against God.
Never have I seen so much ignorance of history packed into one paragraph. I'm not even going to bother addressing it.
Forget it, you are not worth my time.
I'd like to go back to debating intelligent people now.
Banned for personal attacks. The explanation is here.
Oh you are so sweet.
I read the bible, but granted I took it at face value and didn't have a pastor to interpret it for me. I never claimed to be a theologian or an expert on the bible which is why I generally stay out of these discussions because folks like Atheistextremeist know the bible far better than I ever will my expertise lies in other fields. I posted the excerpt from Deuteronomy specifically because you made the claim god does not expect us to enforce his laws. Why did he expect it then and not now? When did god declare the old laws no longer apply? Why would god make laws and then change his mind later? Even if you want to argue that when Jesus came he changed the laws to the "moral" laws doesn't god want us to enforce those?
Fortunately, because man decided to set up a government that is not a theocracy. But does our decision have any effect on what god wants us to do?
Hmm.. the statement that the majority of people once believed the world was flat-Fact,
Christianity has spent a good part of the last 2000 years killing/persecuting non-Christians (and even Christians with different beliefs) - fact,
Majority opinion has no bearing on what is really true- fact God exists or he doesn't regardless of what most people believe, it isn't a poll.
Christianity is not the belief held by the majority of the world population- fact
Most Christians probably haven't read the bible cover to cover? Yeah that is speculation. But probably right.
So where is the ignorance?
What I think is ignorant is making the claim that the existence of god is "blatantly obvious" And talk about a "general revelation" that makes his existence obvious to "even a child". Well it isn't so obvious. Especially when I question you and all you can do is tell me how stupid I am.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
You believe the bible is the word of god. Fair enough. My position is that the bible is the word of men, a stitched up frankenstein of a thing, crossing multiple cultures, tying in multiple stories - sewing together multiple religions. Christianity stands on judaism's shoulders like a village on a tor. The bible combines history, myth and geography with bits and pieces of wisdom, morality, proto-science and medicine. There's even some wild prophecy thrown in for good measure. That's my opinion based on observation of other religious books in the world and my own reading of the text. It's obviously open to debate.
I'd be more comfortable with the godly position if it weren't for the adhom (yep - that's what I meant) that forms the core of christian belief and renders the message a gigantic logical fallacy. Men and women are born evil. They cannot question, they must only believe. Questioning is evidence of sin. Who are you to ask god? But this isn't actual proof. It's simply calling your debate opponent a crook because he disagrees with you.
The second issue I have with the bible is the threat. On top of the logical adhom we have the logical fallacy from force. The big one-two. Excuse my frankness of expression here MoL, but it's like god's reaching out of the pages of the bible and shouting:
"Believe this, John, you disgusting, filthy pervert, or I'll smash you in the fucking face!"
I'm not the only person to bridle at the hatred of the brutal Canaanite war god.
Calvary represents a deep reaction against yahweh - an empathetic socialist bubble bursting from the tolerant, multicultural polytheism that was the Empire of Rome.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
There is no nice way to say this, but its people like you that make baby jesus cry.
This is the rub too. If MoL wants to willingly surrender his cognitive and moral capacity to a deity that he knows to be bloodthirsty and capricious, I'm at a loss. At times I am convinced there is simply a different wiring system in place for theists like this, because I can't imagine what evidence they have experienced that convinces an intelligent person to bow down to something so conceptually revolting.
There seem to be two types of theists...those who reject that their God is a prick and those who revel in it. In both cases the excuse is that humans simply don't understand the will of God. But I do understand the will of God, and it makes perfect sense in the context of a time where every tribes deity was a bloodthirsty monster to be feared.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
I think of them as the "kittens and rainbows" group and the "you're going to rot in hell" group. Or, it could be expressed as the "I need a hug and so do you" group and the "I need to you to be spanked" group. We have examples of both on the forums.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
in our minds, atheists and christians. But there's part of me that hates the fact some species of godly insist we make a moral decision not to believe in an invisible and unavailable god. I freely believe there are mysteries about the universe but converting these mysteries into an anthro deity who remains intensely focused on the tedium and splutter of our mundane lives defeats me. I think all religion says a great deal about humanity and about our efforts to understand why we feel the way we do. Until we meet a god and shake him by the hand I don't think that this observation constitutes an assertion.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I seem to fit snugly into these particular groups...
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
We as atheist don't seem to have a problem with excepting things as they are. We don't believe because in imaginary gods and you get upset with us so who is not excepting things. Stereo typical Christian BS. That's the problem, we don't have a problem with your worshipping a fake god, however it bugs the shit out of you because we don't.
Now I used the word we in this post as I was speaking for all atheist, I do not pretend to be the spokesman for all atheist. Just speaking for myself and I know that a lot would agree. So sorry if I spoke out of turn.
Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…
Pigeon holes need to be neat and tidy. No crossovers or hanging out of the edges. "The Management."
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.