Mistakes Christians make when dialoguing with atheists
Offline Ater posting some on CARM it got kinda old...and it seems that atheists (or purported atheists) out number the theists on a Christian Apolegetics site... But any ways, I found this on CARM's site ...I edited it and added commentary.
Labeling AtheistsSome Christians have labeled atheists as stupid or morally void. Though there may be some atheists who fit these categories (as would many in the general population), atheists are not categorically stupid, degenerates with no morals. Many of them are fine citizens, honest, caring, loving, and patient. For a Christian to start off with such a blanket statement can backfire. First, ask questions. Find out what their presuppositions are.
Maybe some atheists have presuppositions, but I tend to think that atheists, for the most part, are tabula rosa.
But I think atheists and theists should never assume that you know what the other beleives about a particular topic or how they think until that person has for stated it. I'm as guilty as anyone in this regard. I've made assumptions about what someone thought only to find out later that I was talking about something entirely different.
Ignoring Atheists' QuestionsIf you were standing on a railroad track and a train was heading your way, closing your eyes and ignoring the locomotive will not make it go away. If an atheist asks a question and you ignore it repeatedly, it would be fair for him to conclude you were incapable of answering the objection. Of course, this does not mean you always have to answer everything, because dialogue flows both ways. But, it is important that you face issues. If you don't have an answer, admit it. That's okay. It doesn't mean you are wrong, it means you don't have an answer. Go study, get an answer, and get back to him.
Two often, this this case. But punting to mystery is worse-- that is saying, "well it's a mystery becasue only God can know it".
Stating that Atheism is a religionAtheists will repeatedly tell you that they are not in a religion. A religion is usually defined to include belief in a deity of some sort. Atheism is non-belief in a deity. It isn't necessarily a "belief that there is no God" (though it can be), but is "not believing either way." To label an atheist as a religious person is to put up a roadblock to effective communication. It would be like someone saying to a Christian, "You believe in a mean, tyrannical being who likes to torture people." The Christian would simply roll his eyes and think that the person doesn't know what he's talking about. So, how much effective conversation could there be in either instance? Not much.
I've heard "Atheism is a religion", but I'd also add stating that "Evolution is a religion" too is just as bad, then using terms like "evolutuionist" and "evolutionism". Darwinism and Darwinists are generally acceptable to those who adhere to Darwinian evolution, but not everyone buys into Darwinian evolution...there are other flavors. So don't make the mistake of likening evolution to a religion and the Origin of Species to a holy book.
I'd add too, that "belief that there is no God" is only one sort of atheism, and one might say such for many different reasons.
Stating unsupportable factsNo one has all documentation for everything they say. It is not reasonable to require proof from an atheist on everything said. Nevertheless, if you are going to state a fact or two, it is good to have the documentation at the tip of your tongue -- at least occasionally, or have access to it. It adds to your credibility. Of course, you don't have to document everything, but if you have some illustrious fact to use, try and have it documented.
I'd be ready to show proof of something before stating it as fact. At least Google it.
Never admitting when you are wrongPride is a harmful thing. It caused the fall. It ruins marriages. It leads to anger and self-righteousness. It has no place in the Christian's life. Never admitting you are wrong is being prideful. If an atheist, or anyone, proves you wrong in something, be kind and courteous. Admit you made a mistake and go on. Everyone makes mistakes, even atheists. There is nothing wrong with admitting an error. That doesn't mean you are wrong about Christianity any more than being wrong about the color of a boat means boats don't exist. On the other hand, if you never admit when you are wrong, you will not be able to convince anyone of your position when in a discussion. You will simply lose the respect of the one with whom you are debating.
This cuts both ways, I think. I've been corrected on points before by theists and atheists alike.
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”
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I would add also that it seems to cheapen the idea of what a religion is.
I mean to say that everytime some theist tells me that 'Atheism is a religion" it occurs to me that they are doing so in an attempt to discredit atheism. The irony here seems to be lost on them.
I like CARM. They honestly admit that they are getting their butts kicked by the atheists, and they don't whine about it.
We have a few 1000+ threads here that would be considerably shorter if those mistakes listed here were avoided, instead of embraced and labelled "faith".
I've poked around a bit the last couple of days. My problem is a lot of the posters are just chanting evangelical doctrine over and over. Are there many theist posters who are interested in genuine debate? I wouldn't mind joining in, but many of the threads just have theists popping in and quoting the Bible for ten pages and I'm not sure I'm interested in that. Am I just in the wrong threads?
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Carm really puts my nerves to the test. There are lots of what I reffer to as southern baptists on there. They get really upset and will tell atheists not to post on there threads because they don't like what they had to say about the thread. Even when the atheist is simply debating. They take it as an insult. Theres quite a few dudes on there that believe women have no place in politics and they should just stay in the kitchen apparently. Needless to say I don't frequent that site because it just gives me the heebie jeebies.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
Thanks for the warning -- I won't visit the site as I don't need the spike in blood pressure. That attitude just makes me want to kick ass. My grandmother owned and operated a trucking company. My mother worked 44 hours a week unless she had two jobs and worked longer. Maybe their moms and grandmas stayed at home, but mine sure didn't. And my grandma didn't go to church and she was a strong contender for world's worse cook. See? I'm not even there and I'm shooting already.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Nah, you've pretty much got their number.
I was just referring to this :
I love how they ask for "reasonable theists". I just found that so refreshingly and surprisingly honest, that I was overcome by a wave of sympathy for our christian brothers.
I've just now read what got posted in that thread later on, and....yeah, I'm not feeling so sympatico anymore.
I like how they think that "strong" and "reasonable" don't cancel each other out when it comes to theism.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Haha! I made a profile before reading and now I wish I didn't. It's cult like to me and it just sent me running back to rrs. This is were I feel the most comfortable.
If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.
@ CJ: Just picture a board with thousands of posts per day...and 80% of the theist posters are paisley's and Billy Bob Jenkins(only real theists, not atheists fucking around). The sheer volume of stupid is staggering.
@Anon: Ok, that makes sense. I've said it before, I don't have much issue with liberal theists...I don't agree with them, but I'm live and let live. I just wish they spoke up more instead of often helping to shelter the orthodox and fundamentalists.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
I posted some stuff in some forums, etc....I replied cordially etc.... no fun.
(That, and the interface sucks, but that's neither here or there.)
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”