CJ, it's either fictional or historical.  It can't be both unless you are trying to say it's partly historical?  Is the part about the Vikings expected Jesus around 1000 historical? I was hoping the Vikings were still smart enough to stick with their Nordic roots instead of falling for a fake Palestinian religion.

I actually have a picture of a sign on a utility pole that says Jesus is coming in 1987!! 1987!! I'll try to find that and post it one day.

Jerry Fawell actually said Jesus would come back in his lifetime! He said he and his entire congregation would be able to see Jesus together!

As you know Fawell died without Jesus is still just as dead as ever!!

There are TONS of stories about PROMINENT Christian Clergy over the past 2000 years saying Jesus will come back in their lifetime so WHERE is this imaginary Jesus??

The only problem with the crucifixtion story is it never happened! It's just like a fictional story i.e. absolutely NO historical corroboration outside the bible.  Didn't you know not a SINGLE person living at that time during the Roman Empire wrote about a resurrection or even that a guy named Jesus was around! We do have contempary writers from that time who wrote about that era and they don't mention a Jesus, Mary, apostles, etc.

Christianity is such an obvious MYTH but it's taking a long time for the world to find out but it's gotten a lot better since their influence has collapsed the last 300 to 400 years. Christianity once used to control entire continents!!

I knew you were being sarcastic but it gave me a chance to point out that there's no truth to that famous crucifixtion story. That's ALL it is. A made up story!

1- Rome executed many Jewish rebels and records are minimal.

2- There were many desert wacked out prophets in the 1st century several named jesus.

Or to borrow from Battlestar Galactica - There were many copies.

3 - In the Gospels the time frame (or goal posts) moved.

1st it was, some of you standing here won't taste death before the Kingdom of God comes.

Next it was this generation will not pass before it comes.

Then it is no one but the Father Knows.

[/sarcasm on]

My theory is Jesus' communicator battery had run out and he wasn't in contact with God at the end.

God had switched plans and Jesus was unaware. He clearly expected God to show up or he wouldn't have asked why have you forsaken me as he died without the legions of angels in Zechariah.

Or God was out of range, visiting the far side of the Universe spying on sinners fornicating or such.

Or when Jesus was teleported to God's space ship he was informed of the new plan. Unfortunately the old plan had been widely enough disseminated that to publicly change it was out of the question. They left for the continuous party going on in another part of the Universe and have lost track of time, as time means little to an immortal. Some later date they will return when all have hopefully forgotten the bullshit they pulled on the last visit.[/sarcasam off]

You may not have read any of the genre.  The idea behind historical fiction is to begin in a period of history, add some dialog, maybe add extra characters, and try to stick to what is known as historical fact.  My first encounter was The Black Rose about a guy who traveled to China in the 13th century.  After Marco Polo's first journeys.  It was a romance as well as the guy found a Chinese girl.  Very accurate as to travel and life conditions and so on, but the story and main characters were totally fictional.

Jean Plaidy writes about major historical figures - Anne Boleyn, Catherine di Medici, Queen Victoria and so on.  Her plots closely follow the known life histories of these people.  But she adds dialog and details that are fictional.

Barbara Hambly writes about early American history - Patriot Wives is about the first 3 first ladies and Sally Hemmings.  Again, as close to known history as possible with extra dialog and fleshing out of the stories, making it fictional.

Georgette Heyer - followed by many, many, Harlequin romance writers - started the whole Regency Romance thing.  She wrote about imaginary characters, but the historical background and major contemporary historical figures are as true as she could make them.

Finally, alternate the universe genre in sci-fi often leans over into historical fiction.  The main character is usually fictional, but minor characters may be major historical figures.  These books also try to get the daily living conditions and major historical events as accurate as possible.  A fun series of sci-fi books was started by Eric Flint, David Weber coauthored the second and there have been other coauthors since.  1632 is the story of a small town in West Virginia which is transported back in time in situ by a galactic accident perpetrated by aliens.  An interesting take on the usual alternate universe plots.

I have no idea where he is and neither does anyone else know.  Though, you know, if you ask, you will be told he is in heaven with his father and it is all god's plan which we will find out about in god's own time.  Idiots.

The retort I continually recieve is , "All Things are Possible With God"... So that's when I ask them to loan me money.

My experience is that the best way to negotiate most theists is to allow them to come to their own conclusions over time.... being a voice of reason without being condesending works better than you might think...even if you can't see the results immediately.

But I am NOT talking about dealing with your garden variety willfully ignorant, hate filled fundamentalist cum kettles... For people like this, religion is the means to an end, which is usually to mask bigotry with self righteousness and their version of morality...So it is *THESE* folks who deserve your "A LIST" material...

According to these series of one teaching, this teaching underlies all religions, or their respective mystical orders, rather than the mainstream organized religion. It says, that Heracles, Mithras, Krishna, Buddha and others were either members of GWB responsible for human civilization, or close disciples of GWB under direct guidance or overshadowing. They all were entrusted with task of spreading one symbolical story across ages and civilizations, with characteristic waypoints like crucifixtion, resurrection and ascension. This is, because this story has a relevance to human development. The actual meaning should be explained by mystical orders themselves to those eager to know it, when there is an opportunity. For example, the scene of Jesus being baptisted in river by John Baptist means the stage of development when a person conquers one's own emotional nature, symbolized by water.

Bible, New Testament in particular has some highly cryptic (esoteric) parts and expressions. All of this must be taken in context of reincarnation, this is what 1st century Pharisees believed in and apparently much of the folk in that area.

And the disciples asked him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"
But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand."
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13)

This is one of several such quotes that can be found in Bible, after dilligent searching. Author of this page did a thorough job on that.

Other references are astronomic and astrologic. Some references, including Apocalypse say something about four creatures with faces of man, eagle, bull and lion. This can be easily interpreted as the axis of Earth with four sides, two of equinoxes, two of solstices. Taking spring equinox as the front due to emphasized symbolics in other quotes, axis of Earth will soon move slowly into the constellation of Aquarius. It's opposite end will enter Leo. One solstice will occur in Taurus and the other... In Scorpio, which was in times of Babylon called Eagle. Astronomic terms are universal language which lasts for ages and might be easily used to specify a time on the sky clock and hide the meaning from ignorant readers. I don't say that Bible isn't a mess of various sources, metaphors, alterations and contradictions, but at least something can be deciphered, as I just demonstrated.

Now, there is at least one person, Ben Creme, who claims that Christ has already returned, "like a thief at night" back in 1977 and supports it by numerous signs on earth and sky. This claimed second coming is necessarily very unorthodox and rather coinciding with prophesies of multiple religions, than fulfilling them all at once which is impossible. Cult of personality or any form of worship is avoided at all costs. Christ must be accepted on the merit of his message and instruction alone, not by historical authority of one religion and subsequent rejection by other religions. Besides that, even Christ is just one person and to get something done requires countless votes and hands raised in parliaments. Therefore, this Christ will not do anything we can do or order anyone to do anything.

So at least a half of the whole message is pretty much about how to correctly handle economy, finances, basic human rights, politics, human relationships, environment global and urban, psychology, education, self-development, and so on. Outlandish as all the esoteric history may seem, the information on our current global situation and way out of it is very clearly presented. Also, there are documented humanitary activities in various fields, interviews with these activitsts, and much of other mundane material. I really appreciate these news, it gives very balanced look on global problems and solutions. I wouldn't trust anyone who would bring only good or only bad news.

Even if Creme and returning Christ would be completely fake, their message is not, by any means. It is exactly like I would think of solution to global problems, only in better and specific words. Thus equipped, I feel competent to instruct others on global problems and solutions and maybe eventually work on these that I might reach locally. Nothing on that knowledge is truly revolutional, revolutional would be actually putting it into practice against selfish interests of many.
Thus is answered the question how some people can rationally consider Christ's return. If it's presented with all meaningful complexity of it, then it can be at least considered. This is of course not about Christians or other believers that take their religion as exclusive and only their savior as granted. It's for those with broader look at history, religions, contemporary situation and possible futures. It's a good test of open-mindedness, this has nothing to do with agreement, it is about consideration of as much as you can consider.

LMAO..So Jesus returned in 1977??!?  Where is he then?? Working at the local laundromat?? ROFL!!

HOW does Creme explain where he is??

This talk about signs on earth and sky make him sound like he's Wiccan or something. 

He mows my lawn.

So he won't reveal himself until people start killing each other over religion? But that's going on right now!! He's going to wait till the last moment?  Is that just before some nation or terrorist launches nukes? How will he know that ahead of time? Religion sure as hell hasn't stopped the wars or genocides of the past.

Have you guys heard about how when the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima that was a very apocalyptic sign so TONS of Christians thought that was the "last moment" and said Jesus was due ANY MINUTE there after!!

Dude, there have been TONS of "last moment" disasters throughout history yet this Jeebus never, and I mean NEVER, reveals himself.  Don't forget the Black death and Black Plagues wiped out 1/4 to 1/3 of the civilized world yet Jeebus was just a cartoon in the mind of naive earthlings!!  Never jumping out of the comic book!!

Luminon, your tag says you are a theist but you don't really seem like that much of one. Are you a lite theist or a theist who is trying to kick the habit or something?

Shrek is coming back