Opposing view forums.
Posted on: January 11, 2011 - 9:21pm
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Opposing view forums.
I have only been a member for 3 weeks and I must admit I find this forum a bit addictive. Ok, maybe more then a bit... I find myself spending a lot of time reading even old threads. It's good to finally find individuals that resonate with my way of thinking.
My question is are there similar opposing view forums out there? Perhaps if we could argue with theists in their own forums it may have more of an impact then the hand-full of theists that frequent this forum. I'm interested in creationist, or general 'out to lunch' forums. If any of you have some good suggestions I would love to hear them.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
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www.carm.org
A Christian apologetics forum that allows non-Christians to post without almost any censorship. Ergo, scientific naturalists have essentially pwnd everyone and taken over part of the forum.
www.leagueofreason.co.uk
One of my favorite forums, complete with an active chat room and blog.
Usually, the most irrational religious forums will not allow skeptics to argue their case. Like, if you try to post on http://www.rr-bb.com/, you'll simply be blocked and your posts will be deleted.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Thank you I will check it out.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
I feel the same way - these forums are great! Try www.theologyweb.com for some opposing views: at one stage they were very heavy handed about only getting a religious point of view across but I recently read some posts there and they seem more open to being challenged.
What Would Jesus Drive? Well, God preferred an old Plymouth, "God drove Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden in a Fury"; Moses was said to ride a motor bike, "the roar of Moses’ Triumph is heard in the hills", while the apostles would carpool in a Honda, "the apostles were in one Accord".
I enjoy CARM too.
The sad thing I find though is there just aren't that many great intellects among the very religious. The best people all seem to be very weak theists with their religion so watered down that it is meaningless...they are more like secular hippies who label their feeling of awe, 'God'. We have a couple new forumers of this very type.
To argue for God in the modern intellectual world, your God concept has to be terribly...wispy.
That doesn't stop lots of people from being theists, obviously, and it doesn't stop lots of people from debating, but you get things like CARM, where there are hundreds of active theistic posters but the arguments aren't very good. Just dip your toe into the evolution area to see what I mean. These people are debating because they are ignorant. Fundamentalism typically doesn't survive long if someone is a critical thinker. Most of the 'debate' is one side asserting "Truth" based on emotion and plugging their ears against anything else. Not much you can do besides try and make sure their kids are taught to think for themselves.
Oh, and rr-bb is just...sad. Sad and vile. But mostly sad. I feel genuine anguish every time I go there and see so many people in 'first world' nations living lives based on fear, hate and self loathing. It doesn't have to be that way and they don't have to waste their lives like that.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
WHY go to a Christnut forum??
If you want to be around nuts then go visit the looney bin.
LOL...Of course not!!
Most of the great intellects know religion, especially Christianity, is crap. That's WHY they are intellects.
The arguments for Christianity are not just weak they are basically non-existent! That's why their arguments aren't any good!
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com
I thought it would be fun. Reality set in really quickly when all I was reading was born again confessions and bible verses. The arguments were among the type of "I love this verse the most, not that one. This is much more inspiring, then your verse". A mental hospital would have been much more entertaining. I will try some more but I couldn't read another bible inspired post. The arguments were at best childish and at worst non existing. It was a really painful experience.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Some cling to their belief in spite of their intellect. We lie best to ourselves, I believe religion is more about self deception than about intelligence. There are theists out there that are very intelligent, unfortunately they would be just as disgusted by those forums as I was.
Check this link http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/28407 for a good example. I find his kind very interesting because he has probably followed the same path of doubt as many of us (atheists) have. I'm curious at what point do they say, "ok, this makes no fucking sense but I'll go to church this sunday anyways". Then they become outspoken advocates of their religion. They have to know deep down inside that they are wrong, but something makes them believe.
They're also the ones that can do the most damage because they're so persuasive to the masses that don't reason. If you present an argument that sound intelligent in the right light, it is more likely to be believed.
To consider all these individuals intellectually inferior would be a mistake, they may be self delusional but not stupid.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Yea, that is exactly it, Ktulu. My suspicion is that the simple arguments create too much dissonance...they can't live with that belief because they are too skeptical. However, they find if they make the belief generic enough, complex enough, and cloudy enough, they can convince themselves they believe it without too much dissonance. To even hold that type of belief though you need to be a pretty smart person, just to rationalize it.
Of course the arguments don't have any more merit than any other theistic idea, but they do have the benefit of, typically, being less dangerous on an individual level. The problem is like you say, these people are often the champions of why theism is, 'true' even though the majority of believers who look up to them don't even understand their faith. They are another excuse for more ignorant theists to reaffirm their theism.
I think people like Mak even acknowledge that sometimes.
The esoteric ideas still don't have any merit though, they don't help anyone and they have the potential to harm by spreading spiritualism as a legitimate idea.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.