Dyatlov Pass Incident

Teralek
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Dyatlov Pass Incident

I love a good mystery. It entices my intellect. I seek the hidden knowledge few people care about, for various reasons. I have a feeling that there is more to reality than what  we percieve and that most humans are forgeting these more exotic avenues of knowledge... We allways rush to apparently easy explanations. I do that too, but sometimes we have to remain humble when the facts don't sugest a STRONG probable explanation.

Here is an example of a mystery - the Dyatlov Pass Incident. I will not advance any explanation for this happening, because I can't find one after reviewing all available facts.

Well, in resume the Dyatlov Pass Incident is about "an event that resulted in the deaths of nine ski hikers in the northern Ural mountains on the night of February 2, 1959. It happened on the east shoulder of the mountain Kholat Syakhl (Холат Сяхл) (a Mansi name, meaning Mountain of the Dead)." "The lack of eyewitnesses and subsequent investigations into the hikers' deaths have inspired much speculation. Investigators at the time determined that the hikers tore open their tent from within, departing barefoot in heavy snow."

This was one of the strangest cases I have ever come across that defies ordinary explanations. Almost like the famous flight 19 over the coast of Florida.

The wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident

The skeptic response: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4108 (What you would say... )

And one informative and impartial website of the event: http://www.aquiziam.com/dyatlov_pass_answers.html


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Well, unless the guy in the

Well, unless the guy in the last link is off, the only mystery is why they left their tent in a hurry.

 

If that is the case, then I doubt anyone will ever know.  Could be a million reasons, I suppose.  I don't see any evidence available that is conducive to speculation one way or another, so while I could speculate and come up with some plausible scenario, I don't see much point.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


lalib
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This one is easy, file it

This one is easy, file it under: 'Not enough information".

 


Teralek
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 mellestad wrote:Well,


 

mellestad wrote:

Well, unless the guy in the last link is off, the only mystery is why they left their tent in a hurry.

 

If that is the case, then I doubt anyone will ever know.  Could be a million reasons, I suppose.  I don't see any evidence available that is conducive to speculation one way or another, so while I could speculate and come up with some plausible scenario, I don't see much point.

 

Yes, lack of information indeed. However I can't find a reasonable explanation why they left the tent in those conditions and why they haven't returned imediatly....


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 Of course, and you likely

 Of course, and you likely will never find one.  Let's see... bear scared them off... Maybe the other 4 were passed out from drinking...  Perhaps the natives only scared them off, but weren't responsible for the killings... hmmm maybe they took some seriously messed up drugs.  Point is, there are about one million plausible explanations that don't involve the supernatural or extraterrestrial.  If you ever found out the real story, you'd be sorely disappointed by it's banality.  

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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Teralek wrote:mellestad

Teralek wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Well, unless the guy in the last link is off, the only mystery is why they left their tent in a hurry.

 

If that is the case, then I doubt anyone will ever know.  Could be a million reasons, I suppose.  I don't see any evidence available that is conducive to speculation one way or another, so while I could speculate and come up with some plausible scenario, I don't see much point.

Yes, lack of information indeed. However I can't find a reasonable explanation why they left the tent in those conditions and why they haven't returned imediatly....

 

This happens frequently near Portland, Oregon where I live.  Thousands of people climb to the top of Mt Hood every year.  It is a volcano that is currently inactive.

 

It isn't all that tall, and I guess it isn't that difficult of a climb.  But it is notorious for quickly changing weather.  Even people who have climbed the mountain many times before have gotten into trouble.

One group of guys were all experienced climbers, had climbed Mt Hood many times before, and the weather prediction was for a storm in a few days.  Didn't take locators - gps devices which you can check out at the ski resort.  The storm arrived early, one of them fell.  So they put him in a snow cave they built and the other two tried to climb down for help.  They found the one in the cave frozen to death, they have still not found the other two.  Since it is a couple of years later, people figure one day they may find pieces of them scattered by the local coyotes.

The two guys should have known better than to keep trying to walk down.  If they had stayed in the snow cave with everyone bundled up together, they might have had a remote chance of not freezing to death.  Smart people make stupid mistakes all the time.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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Beautiful landscape CJ! I'd

Beautiful landscape CJ! I'd like to visit! Yes, probably it was a stupid mistake... most of them were very young... However what ever happened happened at night when they were all getting ready to sleep, not when they were climbing. I thought about the bear too... but it's never considered as a possibility on the reports I've read, maybe it's because there are no bears in that region? No footprints of bears? And no scratches or bites at the bodies.

Alchool also seems unlikely, there are no reports of empty bottles. And those passed out from drinking would have make it. Drugs even less likely, they were not stupid american teenagers in the 60's having an adventure on mount Hood! This track they were having was more than a hundred miles long and it was considered one of the hardest you can make at that time. They knew the physical challenge they were about to have was hard.

The natives scared them of is a bit more likely, still is a long shot... I was night, it was dark as hell and it was snowing... no evidence of the natives at the site was ever found. They spent way too long outside the tent and they had no signs of struggle. They ran of for a mile! A mile! Do they really had to get away so far from the camp in the middle of the night?!


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I don't think there really

I don't think there really is that much of a mystery. It seems clear to me that some died from the fall and others from exposure. The only question is why they left the tent unprepared. It very well could have been a bear, there are brown bears in Northern Ural. Given the amount of time between when they were supposed to be back from the trip and the search started, it is very likely that any bear tracks would have been covered. There are also wolves in Ural but I think it is unlikely that a group of experienced skiers would be scared of a wolf.

Other possible explanations would be drugs that caused either hallucinations or paranoia. Also, there is always the possibility that one member of the party went psycho and was trying to kill the others. For those of you who have never been stuck in a tent for an extended period of time because of bad weather let me assure you that it can be very difficult to handle mentally. Even when you are stuck with someone you like a lot. If they were confined to the tent for several days it is not unreasonable to believe that some sort of conflict started between them and it escalated leading to either someone chasing someone else out or perhaps just going batshit crazy and running out with the other members of the team running after them trying to catch them to stop them from hurting themselves.

There are a lot of ways to die in remote locations so I am never really surprised when people do die. Even the most experienced outdoorsmen can find themselves in very deadly situations and do stupid things.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:I don't

Beyond Saving wrote:

I don't think there really is that much of a mystery. It seems clear to me that some died from the fall and others from exposure. The only question is why they left the tent unprepared. It very well could have been a bear, there are brown bears in Northern Ural. Given the amount of time between when they were supposed to be back from the trip and the search started, it is very likely that any bear tracks would have been covered. There are also wolves in Ural but I think it is unlikely that a group of experienced skiers would be scared of a wolf.

Other possible explanations would be drugs that caused either hallucinations or paranoia. Also, there is always the possibility that one member of the party went psycho and was trying to kill the others. For those of you who have never been stuck in a tent for an extended period of time because of bad weather let me assure you that it can be very difficult to handle mentally. Even when you are stuck with someone you like a lot. If they were confined to the tent for several days it is not unreasonable to believe that some sort of conflict started between them and it escalated leading to either someone chasing someone else out or perhaps just going batshit crazy and running out with the other members of the team running after them trying to catch them to stop them from hurting themselves.

There are a lot of ways to die in remote locations so I am never really surprised when people do die. Even the most experienced outdoorsmen can find themselves in very deadly situations and do stupid things.

I also believe that that was most likely a stupid situation but for me is still a mystery. I can't quite believe in the bear theory because of the way the bodies were scattered, the nature of the injuries and no footprints of animals were found, and the footprints of the skiers were there!

But clearly you haven't read all the facts in detail. They set camp that night, they were not stuck there! You can do the reading with a good timeline at the same website http://www.aquiziam.com/dyatlov_pass_1.html


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Beyond Saving wrote:Other

Beyond Saving wrote:
Other possible explanations would be drugs that caused either hallucinations or paranoia.

 

That is a valid point as well. These people died in a mysterious manner and were autopsied. So where are the toxicology reports? Without those, we cannot know just what might have been in their bllod streams that could have led to some seriously batshit behavior.

 

One possibility would be lead poisoning. This happens to hunters often enough to be statistically significant. There are two ways that this can occur.

 

First is that when bullets strike bone, they can shatter and spread tiny pieces of lead through the meat that are not easily seen and removed.

 

Second is that when bullets hit major joints such as shoulders, knees or hips, enough lead can be chemically absorbed into the animal's blood stream before it dies as to make the meat toxic.

 

Now, one of the linked sites tries to refute the idea that the party may have had guns because one of the pictures may have been from a different party. Umm, whatever. These were people with an experienced guide who knew where they were headed. What manner of idiot heads into bear country without guns?

 

Then add the fact that they were caching supplies for the return trip. If you have to do that, it makes a certain amount of sense to chow down on some animal that you may have shot.

 

Another possibility would be vitamin A poisoning. It is fairly well documented that arctic predators will tend to have increased levels of vitamin A in their tissues. I don't know about the brown bears as such but it has been documented in sled dogs that are living in an arctic environment for extended times.

 

Now both lead poisoning and vitamin A toxicity can cause a variety of neurological symptoms including irrational behavior, confusion and irritability. Either one or both are at least possible factors and only the toxicology reports would provide an answer.

 

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Beyond Saving
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Also the possibility that

Also the possibility that they may have had some type of accident earlier in the day leading them to already be suffering hypothermia. Hypothermia can also lead to hallucinations and paranoia. It would also explain why a couple of them were in their underwear. One of the quickest ways to treat hypothermia is to strip down and get in a sleeping bag with someone else. Maybe that is what they were doing, and those suffering from hypothermia went crazy and ran away for some reason. Those who were not suffering the symptoms as severely threw on clothes quickly and ran after them. That would explain why a couple were undressed while the rest were wearing some clothes.  

 

About the bear theory, it was 3 weeks after they died before the search party even got to the camp. More than enough time for any tracks to have been destroyed by the weather especially in the snow with 20-30 knot winds. The website says the human tracks disappeared after 500m. That implies to me that the tracks found were probably in a sheltered location. If the bear didn't walk in the sheltered location and was say on the uphill side of the tent, it is very plausible that its tracks would have been indecipherable by the time the rescue team arrived. Especially if you factor in that the rescue team might have been running all over the place without regard to animal tracks because they were looking for humans.

 

Although, the more I think about it I think some type of hallucination/paranoia is probably more likely whether it is drug induced or environmental. Given their ages, drugs and/or alcohol could certainly have been a factor.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X