Miss Hyde has graced us with her presence...

i'm not drunk

Because... its... easy? o_O

you want to contribute or not?

if you dont than just keep jerking off to videos

i want to know why it good that women are objects in society

in society by both men and women. Blokes are randy sods, who like porn. But there's plenty of sexual competition/performance between women. Most guys would be happy with a nice girl who was breathing.

The current hyper sexuality thing in music is a weird slide from the quirky and cool music vids of the 80s to flat out soft porn. I don't understand it and no longer watch music video. It does not matter how small the shorts are if the music sucks.

In any case, I think it's important not to mistake the projections of the media for reality. The overt sex we see in media advertising and music and so forth is not evidenced in the real world.

I have a bunch of girl mates who are 19-23 or so and they think and behave little differently than girls did when I was a kid. They are more open but not sleazy in the slightest and if they thought you were they'd tell you to f**k off in short order.

I had a party at my house last night and a crowd of late teen early 20s girls (we are locals at the same pub) sat around talking about the stuff girls talk about. Work, boys who suck, feelings, family.

I think in reality, women make tactical investments in intimacy and are keen on a return. Furthermore, if women are sex objects, men are financial donkeys required to provide.

Sure, there are plenty of working women but the nature of family life means that sooner or later mum is best off at home most of the time. That's just what works best and some one has to pay for it.

Either way, the sexes use each other for something that could be called shallow but ultimately relates to procreation and survival of the species. 

kapko i dont care that you dont care so ha

i know we have drives but should we use drives to get advantage? you just say it drive but never say if we should exploit

i dont think we should

Thats funny considering the avatar you have.

I hate to tell you this but we use our bodies for EVERYTHING to make money, does that make humans objects?

It is only disqusting to me when it is done out of manipulation or force or done to support a drug habit. Other than that I don't care how someone makes money.

What makes you think that just because someone, man or woman is sexy, and uses that appeal to make money, that others are treating them like an object?

I don't care is some one is dressed like a librarian or completely naked, that doesn't make them an object.

How many people have undressed you in public without you realizing it? I am also quite sure gays have looked me up and down in public, I don't think that makes me an object. I simply think that makes someone attractive. State of dress does not give anyone the right to abuse you so what you wear should not matter.

 I do not think it is immoral for anyone to do what they want with their own bodies, nor does that make them objects.

  Perhaps you live in the wrong society ?   With your obvious disdain regarding the objectification of women have you thought about moving  east....  like to Saudi Arabia ?  They seem to have that  problem completely under control.

 Our drive, especially sexual gets us in better position in society, always have, the more beautiful or more sexually desirable of us get to normally move up in our social position. This has been going on since, well the times of human civilization started. Men and women are both used by those in power for their sexuality and what it may or may believe it brings to their offspring, men and women also use this to get power and why not, it's an advantage, and those with brains and sexual desirability can really move up if they are able to apply it correctly. However as for the pussycat dolls, yeah none of my friends in my age group by their stuff, i know teenagers and early twenties people that do, and majority of them are females. But still why not, we all do in some form or at some level use our sexuality in some form or way to get what we want from others because it in us for the most part, sex and sexuality is just part of our make up. If some can use their sexuality and brains to move up why not? It's an advantage, if they can use their brain go for it, if they use just their sexuality, well they don't actually move that far up in the social ladder normally. The pussycat dolls, more so Nicole, are pretty business savy as you can't been around this long in the business without some brains for it. Look at fergie, another woman that is very sexually desirable, uses it, but can and has survived since 1984 in the music/entertainment business and has played across genres of music, from hip hop and dance with the black eyed peas to rock n roll with Slash and RnB with John Legend. Say what you will about her, but she is very much in a comfortable lifestyle without having to have slept with everyone just using her brains and sexuality, even if you listen to her music, she doesn't hide that fact. However even men do use their sexuality in so many ways, Mick Jagger, Bowie, freddy mercury, and so many other rock star, to hip hop artists to even country artists use their sexual desirability. Nothing with it, it's what we are. Sexual creatures.

I just watched 30 seconds of the video - no talent girls acting like sluts.

 Pineapple, I have told you plenty of times before:

Take the train to CT. So long as you fail to be fugly, you will get some.

Free tip: Every amtrack train has a bar car. The guy will serve you whatever because it happens often enough that one guy is placing an order for a group who is six cars back. You can be wasted before you get here.

Why do you say we are led through life with our dicks? We are not, we are lead through life by our hormones, just like women are, except men like sex, women love to be bitchy and emotional. Lets be stereotypical shall we. I mean its not like women don't have sexual needs or desires and that men have never used that on a woman, oh gosh no, women are just frigid things that require no sex at all.

Lets admit sandy your statement is pretty stupid. Women and men both use their sexuality and advance when they can in society, nothing wrong with that. They also have to have brains in order to climb higher in society as well. We need companionship, we are social creatures for the most part, some can get along without having men/women (and if I use my sister as an example it's because they are cold non sexual people and therefore undesirable to the rest of society and yes this is a stereotype), however by and large we all need companionship and sex is part of that, its our makeup, our in genes. Our obsession that you say, I say my need, not an obsession. The complications arise from a relationship, not from sex, I tend to find sex the lest complicated part of a relationship, the communication and bulind of an relationship is far harder and complicated than sex. Sex is the act, it's that simple. 

As for the video, yeah they are acting like sluts, not that they are sluts, they are selling an image, but it doesn't mean they are by any stretch of the imagination. Which is where education come in and understanding the difference between the two. Seems you and pineapple should learn that difference, and why only certain men are attracted to those types of women and others are not.

Good post Ragdish. Thanks for the Hayek pics as well, hehe.

But this is not peculiar to the human species. For instance, the Red Queen Theory touches upon similiarities in the animal kingdom, such as the peacock's tail, to be a case in point.

There is drunk and there is drunk. Only losing capitalization and punctuation is a fine first step.

I've always wondered this, and it is blatantly obvious.  You'd think a slutty hot singer would attract a male audience, but that's just not the case atall.  Who is buying albums from Britney, Christina, PCD, Kesha, etc.. hyper sexual groups and singers, GIRLS.  Who is at their concerts GIRLS. Not all ofcourse but the overwhelming majority.  The last time britney came through town I knew grown women that were waiting at their computers to buy a ticket, shit sold out in 2 minutes, GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS.  Why?  I really hope it's not for the music.  Most men DO NOT want the sluty vixen anyway (well not for more than 45 minutes), most men want cute, smart, real, girls next door.  If I was datins Nicole Sheridan, I would be more attreacted to her making a sandwich in sweats and a hat after going to the gym, than all dolled up like some hooker.   I seems to me that it is women who are obsessed with their own sexuality.  Women want to be wanted, it is natural and instintive, they want attention I think it is as simple as.  Women "attract" men, and men "hunt" women, this is just how it works even today (just less obvious).  So I would assume it is natural for many to "peacock" themselves.  That need is so powerful in some of them it may make them act and dress like these vixens they see who they feel are wanted.  I have asked many rational girls the same question and all have admitted variances of the following:  "When I am in a room full of girls, I constantly compare myself to them, and when an unknown walks in who is blatantly prettier/smarter/etc... all I can really do is start to pick them apart and make a case to myself for how the are some bitch or something"

Men just don't do this, we don't think "man that guy has nice muscular arms, I bet he's a slut or he's stupid" or "man that guy is really goodlooking, I'm going to have to act real over the top to get any attention in this group."  We just don't think like that.

If women want to act like the vixen, have at it, but do it for the right reasons, sadly most of the time it's for the wrong reasons.   

On a side note I'd like to hear people comments on a subject I was discussing with a few friends last week.  The subject was crappy music, and how the large majority of real fans of crappy music seem to be girls.  Crappy music=subjective yadayada...well not really.  I think we can all agree on Backstreet boys, justin beiber, britney, Kesha, etc...  These types, music with no substance, music written for 10 year olds. This is crap music, usually written by real musicians behind the scenes but specifically to be crap music for people who listen to crap music and for kids.  Why is it that the fans of this kind of music are overwhealmingly girls, and the insane fans who chase cars and cry are always girls.  Women, what is up with that?

Wow, I'm flattered that you took all that time to reply individually to every sentence in my reply! Sorry, I won't reciprocate... well, except for this part:

'jealousy'??? That's a good one! 'No-talent' sums it up. There is no one on this planet that I am 'jealous' of but, I can think of quite a few that I admire and look up to. Teen Trash and Sluts are not on the list.

'Settled' on is probably the best word to use in this case. I don't know and don't care how many were auditioned - the final result is a mess. IF the lead singer has any talent at all, it is not visible in this video .. maybe if she dumped the gyrating Pips that dominate the video, her talent might be seen, if she has any, which I doubt. But, hey, everyone has to start somewhere.

I specifically chose the words, 'acting like sluts' because that is what they were doing. Whether or, not they act like that only to make a buck, I couldn't say.

You want a definition of 'slut'? Watch the video.

I think it's pretty simple and obvious, because they can, and because IT WORKS.  Same reason kids make cute sad faces to manipulate their parents, it works, it's efficient, it's easy pickens.

I have heard it mentioned by many people ( I am not talking about on this thread, but elsewhere) about how much more predominantly sexual that our modern culture has become and how much more open that it seems to be, but is this true ? Is that even a bad thing ?

For instance, go to a museum and check out Renaissance art paintings and sculptures. Quite alot of sexual imagery and much of it is tied into religious themes. Some of it very erotic, some of it very disturbing, but this was acceptable art in the time when Europe was deemed as Christendom. Same thing with quite a bit of the literature of that time period as well.

The pictures and the drawings of Toulouse Lautrec  in the 19th century is just but one example of how often people liked to see imagery of the so-called "decadent" in art. Lautrec is only one example of the artists of that time period.

The romantic words of "courtly love" are referring to adultery in medieval poems.

Need we mention some of the artifacts that were discovered in Pompeii and how overtly sexual that culture was ?

How about some of the practices of the ancient Romans and Greeks when it came to sex ?

Look at how shocked the world was in the 1960's when the hippy movement came up with such ideas as "free love" and "love ins" and even that term made famous by the Supremes song "Love Child".

Taboos, fascination and attraction to sexual behavior are really nothing all of that new or alarming if you ask me.

For much of the older generation (I guess I could fit in that category, being in my mid-30's) it may seem somehow decadent to look at the practices of the young, but that is not unusual at all .

When I was a kid, heavy metal and MTV were  going to be the utter destruction of the future generations, the elderly said.

Every new generation has to push it's boundaries and mess with the elderly, I think it is normal.

Granted, some of this new pop music does seem talentless. I don't see how it could compare to what Madonna and Cyndi Lauper was to us back in the day (and trust me, they had FLOODS of people that did not like their imagery in performance).

I do have to admit there are some Lady Gaga tunes that I almost (I said almost, I did not admit ) to liking, but I think that is because she is just so weird.

So true, we do "flex our muscles" for girls, and that is our funny thing (look shinny car, sexy time?).  But we don't seem as quick to irrational judgement of other men in that way.  From my observations men certainly do silly things like fist fight over some random girl at the bar, but we're far more likely to have a beer with the guy on a later date.  We often compete/fight but don't "hate" eachother in that way.  Men don't seem as quick to   Women in general seem more prone to quickly hating other women for minute reasons, and setting up elaborate scenarios in their mind that prove other women to be this or that.  Men seem in general much quicker to befriend other men, and usually get along right away.  Put 2 guy friends on competing rugby teams and they will gladly beat the shit out of eachother without holding back and have a beer together after the game.  Put 2 girl friends on opposing contact sport teams and it could literally ruin the friendship 

In my current personal experience just looking at my guy friends in comparison to my girlfriends girlfriends the difference is clear.  My guy friends get along, always with eachother (we are solid as a rock), and the majority of the time with other men including all my girlfriends friends boyfriends.  The flip side however is the complete opposite.  My girlfirends friends are a gong show of constantly changing cliques, cattiness, gossip, and psycological abuse.  They are constanlty shifting the hate towards girls in the group, and it changes depending on current events and who's there for the conversation.  Sometimes, whoever didn't make it to girls night, just gets torn apart verbally by the girls that came (trust me, I'm trying to sleep in the other room while the hens down 6 bottles of wine).  I've heard my girl friend talk to one friend on the phone together bashing another friend, and then do the exact same reverse 2 minutes later with the other friend.  From my experience they're just mean to eachother.   

Example:

Just 2 nights ago, my girlfriend was out with the hens, something happened (not 100% sure) about one girl asking for a ride from another girls boyfriend yaddayadda (silly stuff), instigates 2 hour hen picking of how this girl is "a bitch like that" and how "they don't even want to be friends with her anymore" blablabla texting and verbal warfare extravoganza back at my place.  This goes on and on and on, some of the things they say about eachother, it's crazy.  They ofcourse will all be friends again but this will happen over and over and over... shifting from one girl to the other.  And new girls brought in to the group, don't even get me started. 

Very true.

  I think if you wanna be a stripper who I am to tell you it's wrong, but I have known many girls in the trade, and many of them are not healthy mentally because of it.  Many can't handle it, do it for the wrong reasons and become messed up from it.  I've met some, one in particular I believe was absolutely strong enough, did it for the money only, and could handle the daily harassment of men at the bar.  But still who am I to say you can't be a stripper because you can't handle it, it's their life. 

Well put.

Have I mentioned that I have a book due out VERY VERY VERY soon abvout male/female sexual interactions and committed relationships?.... and which tackles many of these subjects?....Have I?... JUST ASKIN'....

(shameless, I know)

I'm a carpenter born and raised.  Been in construction for 10 years, and the one thing I know most about construction, is that I don't want to be in construction.  You nailed it on the environement, most job sites are like a chimp exibit.  I'm almost numb to it all now: 

Bob Wankermans (betta males obsessed with the little power they have on the job site),

Carpenteritus (thinking one is the best carpenter in the world),

How to swing your hammer syndrom (Someone who micro manages everything, just stands there watching and correcting you, telling you "how to swing your hammer&quot, 

The Lifers (45-70 year old veteran tradesman, missing fingers, black lungs, grumpy, condecending, usually seem to hate their wives)

Their are alote of tools in construction.

  That's why I went into real estate and flipped a house, to bad the market is so flat or I would still be doing it, (40 unit townhome development here I come).  For now, back on the sites.  I think contruction will always have special place inside me, but I'm ready to move on.  It is for the most part an unhealthy environement, dust, saws, heights, the people, everyone usually gets atleast one bad injury for their career in the trades whether it be a missing finger, or a back that just won't bend anymore.

Construction...I'm out!   

Design, management, realestate development, yes please.

I saw a placard in a store the other day that said : Isn't tradition merely a way of clinging to the illusion of permanence ?

Why is it not right ?