Guilt over atheism
Offline If you are an atheist and if you had guilt about being/becoming an atheist how did you handle this? Some of us knew from childhood. Some of knew when we were teens - this is me. Some of us knew as adults of various age. Some of us knew as teens and didn't actually think about it until years later - this is me. If you had guilt about turning your back on the God belief how did you deal with it? I am of course referring to positive/constructive ways of dealing with it. What kind of work did you do to not feel guilty? What I'm doing is mostly seeing the goodness of humanity without the God belief and allowing myself to see that not all good people are religious with the God belief and not all bad people are atheists. I guess black and white thinking takes some time to get into the grey area. When we are raised to think good people are good due to God belief and bad people are bad due to rejecting God belief it tends to stick around for awhile even when we come to know that this isn't true. I'm seeing too many good people from all walks of life to include atheists as well as theists. I'm seeing too many bad people from all walks of life to include atheists as well as theists. Just go with the flow and see that people are people and most are not either black or white - good or bad based upon their status of being theist or atheist. But I still have so much guilt but I'm working on it.
- Login to post comments
Have you ever heard of a meme? If not, look it up.
Anyway, Christianity, as a meme, has very advanced defenses against atheism or conversion. You are raised to feel guilty/evil about questioning God, thinking badly about God, having the strength to think about morality on your own terms, to question the Bible, to go against social norms, and on and on. You are indoctrinated to be hostile to atheism to such a degree that even considering it makes you feel like you are betraying God.
Anyway, with that in mind, the bad news: There is likely no silver bullet.
The good news: With time and a good outlet for your new beliefs, things will get better.
In a rural area sites like this are great. You can voice dissent, have honest discussions and be yourself. When you have specific issues, think about it, talk about it, post about it. Read books about it, there is some great, positive atheist literature. The main thing is to confront the guilt and keep asking, "Why". Every time you go through that process you kill another part of the theistic belief system that was a part of your life and replace it with something, hopefully, better and more stable.
I know where you're coming from, I've been there. It took me a lot of time and a lot of painful questioning to get to the point where I was comfortable with my own disbelief.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Check out these :
http://www.ffrf.org/about/getting-acquainted/dan-barker/
http://ffrf.org/legacy/books/lfif/?t=lostfaith
http://ffrf.org/legacy/about/bybarker/ethics_debate.php
This is a very lengthy page, but well worth the read. This lady takes us on a journey through faith, doubt, finally agnosticism and then how she became an Atheist. As a former religious person, I got alot out of reading it and I think you might too :
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/testimonials/avellone.html
Yes, I struggled with the guilt for a long time. But looking back on it, that was only because no one had provided me with any answers of substance.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
I'm not sure I understand what you mean?
What are you guilty of specifically? You said that you have so much guilt 'about turning your back on the God belief'. What is it, or whom is it you feel the guilt towards? Because I honestly don't understand. I was born in a secular home that dismissed god out of hand, because it was 'the thing to do' in Eastern Europe. I wasn't satisfied and I searched for myself from a young age. Even though religion was ridiculed, or perhaps in spite of it, I did my research and stumbled on to the cosmological argument and other metaphysical arguments. I was uneducated and gullible at the time and reasoned my way to religion. Later I progressed to agnostic deism and all variations in between, as my knowledge base expanded. I now consider myself an agnostic atheist.
I'm not sure where guilt fits in throughout this. I've never felt like I betrayed anyone, or turned my back on God. I don't believe God exists. The people that believe in God are deluded and, if anything, deserve pity not guilt. If I had been part of a theistic community I may feel anger towards them, but I'm confused about your feelings. Perhaps you can elaborate.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Just for my own personal experience, the guilt is a result of indoctrination.
I know when I first realized that I no longer believed in god, people in both my family and church were forever telling me " You just want to do what you want to do without god" or worse " God will punish you for your wicked and evil thoughts, you deserve what you get".
The problem was, in the very back corners of my mind, even though I had rejected the religion, I was afraid they were right.
I guess this is one of the reasons, both in my personal life and on here, that I go out of my way to debate theists so much.
For a long, long time, I was actually afraid to debate theists. Their clever little trickery of semantics and stuff actually messed with my head years ago.
Had it not been for science books, Atheist authors and just tons of knowledge at my disposal, I don't know what direction I would have gone.
That is why I love sites like this so much. Spreading knowledge into the shadows of ignorance.
Today, I am not afraid of any theist argument. I am not afraid to debate anyone, no matter if they are even some sort of theologian or minister.
And I have no reservations about Blasphemy challenges or flat out saying that god is nothing more than a subjective concept of the imagination.
I think for new atheists, like Mellestad was saying on another thread. They have to find something that gives them the crutch that religious thinking might have once provided. For me, that was as much scientific knowledge as I could possibly learn (and I am nowhere near as educated as most of the posters on here).
Today, I need no crutches, thanks to Atheism. I can live in a city, smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt, surrounded by all sorts of delusional fundamentalists, and not harbor any doubts that religion and god are total fabrications.
That is just my experience with some of that so called 'guilt". The faster the god belief ends up on the shelf,the quicker that indoctrinated guilt subsides in my opinion. Knowledge is power.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
I understand where you're coming from, but what I'm trying to say is, while you were guilty you were not really an atheist. To me, atheism is a conclusion of eliminating all other available options. While you have doubt, you are not really an atheist. There should be a different term for that phase of the transition. For this reason I also don't understand people that consider themselves atheists and then convert to some religion or other. Maybe I'm out to lunch here, but once I reasoned atheism, I really did feel liberated, to imply that I felt guilty would imply that I haven't reasoned it through.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
I agree. I think when someone is still harboring guilt and still slightly feeling a fear of god, they are almost but not quite out from under the banner of theism.
In my case, I just needed to find some well reasoned arguments and sound scientific evidence to realize that theism was false.
Like you, I have never understood people that claim to be Atheists and later convert to another religion. Never made sense to me either.
I just don't see how anyone could even be remotely attracted to theistic ideas after overcoming them.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
I dunno, I think it is simplistic to think being atheistic somehow overrides a lifetime of conditioning. At least for me that conditioning had to be fought step by step. I've been an atheist for a long time, but I'll still catch myself feeling guilty about some random thing that I don't think is wrong anymore.
From a biological perspective, the neural pathways that are laid down during theism aren't overwritten by a single decision to abandon the central concept. Our brains aren't that good.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Why do you feel guilty? My best guess is, that because of the family, who trusted you so much to be a good Christian. You aren't and you have to lie about yourself.
If this is the case, realize, that they grossly overstepped their and your rights. Nobody has the right to tell you what to believe in, specially in childhood. Realize also, that they need the infantile comfort of a Father in the sky, so your lies about yourself fall into the same merciful cathegory. You have to tell them, to spare them of other lies they would worry about too much. Like you going to Hell.
Probably they wanted you to be ethical and therefore remain out of jail. Little they know, that atheists get comparatively much less into jail than theists. Theists commit crimes, thinking that god will forgive them or maybe even save them. Atheists commit far less crimes and probably are not as easily caught. Atheism is good for you.
But anyway, what is the greatest problem? Their god belief, or their way of worshipping god? IOW, it is harder for them to get over with you being an atheist, or you not attending their little big congregation? Can they understand if someone prefers... uh... "solitary prayer and contemplation", instead of sitting in a church full of people?
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
I was never that strong a theist, but I honestly can say I don't understand where guilt would come from. I hardly ever feel guilt, so maybe being an asshole is in my genes. The way I reason, it is EXACTLY as if I felt guilty over not believing in Santa Claus. Once you realize Santa doesn't exist, you are disappointed and think your parents were dicks for lying to you, but you don't feel guilty for Rudolph, Prancer and Dancer. I really do equate it this way in my mind. Same with reconverting, I won't go back to that belief unless I stumble onto Santa's workshop while on a North Pole expedition, or take a ride on his slay...
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Have you read this stuff? I tried to elaborate a bit. http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/28911
The Santa meme doesn't incorporate any of the guilt/fear elements. When you disbelieve in Santa, you might feel sad or melancholy but you're right, why would you feel different?
I'm assuming your theistic tradition did not incorporate guilt, fear and hell very much? That is probably the difference. 'Friendlier' traditions aren't going to indoctrinate in the same way. So that is what it comes down to, our "Santa" was a guilt tripping, abusive monster wrapped up in a package of forced 'love' and you can't relate because although we share a a word, God, the content of that word is radically different.
Maybe an abusive relationship analogy is better? Yea, I think that might make more sense to you. Try to think about it within that conceptual framework, does it make more sense? The guilt, the fear, the destruction of ego that leads to dependency and the long, painful process of recovery have parallels.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
You're probably right on both counts, I think knew more about the Greek gods then Jesus when I was six. I guess I've never though about it in that respect. God the abusive alcoholic.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Heh. Although, for the sake of clarity I would replace "God/Santa" with "The religious meme as a whole".
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
While there is quite a bit of appeal to emotion in this particular vid, damned if the Thinking Atheist wasn't dead on with this "public service announcement" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXgnpuKoWhU
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Well, yes and no.
It's an analytical and objective juxtaposition of the similarities to the control mechanisms that are employed by the abuser, to terrorize their victim.
And yes, it's not difficult to empathize, or sympathize, if you're human, and have been on this planet for any significant period of time...
Thanks for posting the link.
It's a great objective analysis, that's very informative, and succinct.
.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
I don't feel guilty for not believing, luckily.
My sister, too, starts doubting. She's going to a course that informs her on Christianity (at least, that's how my parents formulated it. I argued with them whether they, the course leaders, are objectively informing the little minds, or tried to convince my sister and her peers to become christian again). On the one hand I want to debate with her concerning religion, to show how that the Bible isn't really that inerrant et cetera.
But on the other hand... I feel like I'm being immoral if I do that. Taking away another child from my parents, perhaps. Or still feeling like innocent belief is something to be cherished, deep within. I don't really know what it is, but it's keeping me from making my sister an atheist...
To the OP, assuming this was a legit question and not just some kind of POE (I am skeptical):
Just keep reading and questioning. The more you know, the more this imagined sky bully will seem an ancient memory. Then, you can feel free to make your own decisions distinct from the dictatorial ramblings of a bunch of goat herders from the bronze age.