WHY AM I AN ATHEIST???
Offline WHY AM I AN ATHEIST???
I was asking a person on here to show me the path of their apostasy. After refuting the first objection, it appears he did not want to continue down the path of his objections.
99% of all atheists are atheists for 2 reasons. And 100% of atheists are atheists due to emotional reactions. The two reasons to be an atheist is:
1) Pain and Suffereing = My Dad or Mom abused me, or Dad died when I was 7.
2) Sex, Drugs, and Rock n' Roll = I wanna tap that, oh, I feel so guilty, oh, there is no God, oh, I don't feel guilty.
There is generally a 3rd reason, but it is rare and surround money. So I will not discuss that.
So, for you apostates that did become a pagan or heretic, what were your intellectual objections. And for you reprobates who are pagans and never professed Christianity, what are your objections.
Now of course some if not all are going to say PROOF. LOL. I've discussed this until the cows came home. But we can address my arguments again on proof if need be.
But really, it would be interesting to do a machine gun approach as to your objections. You're obviously going to be stubborn when I refute you, so upon refutation, perhaps we can call it good, and continue on down the line.
Oh, and please keep it on the intellectual. I know that is difficult for atheists and Public School grown ups. but try.
The objections can be internall, externally, philosophically, scientifically, theologically, anything. You guys love this. Putting the Christian on the defense. I am putting myself on the defense. But I am limited to the speed of typing, so be patient.
So, what is the first objection to the denial of, shall we say all of theism and specify after that, Chritsianity specifically.
Good Luck!
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
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The means to "SPEAK ATHEISM" ? ? ? LOL. How does one speak Atheism ?
Sex in the proper role ? Does that mean sex as you determine it to be proper ?
Consistent Christians do not hate sex ? That is a new one to me. Seems that is the one thing ALL Christian and Muslim cults are hung up on. This is funny.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
You say it's false but your reasoning agrees with me.
Prayer starts with the person praying wanting a god to do something (volition). They then visualize that god doing something and the effects of that thing being done. The only addition is the commanding of the god to do that thing. Thanks for agreeing with me though I don't think you meant to.
Anointing is a command for the god to be with the person being anointed or to do something for that person or the person they are being a proxy for.
You only believe baptism is symbolic? Calvinism doesn't agree - are you sure you're a Calvinist?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
john-john,
in order to truly "convict" someone, he or she has to take your bullshit seriously, at least on some subconscious level. none of us here do. youre not convicting anyone. youre just being a dick.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Hi Rob,
People would leave the truth or have a pseudo-truth which is actually a lie due to sin. Nobody seeks God, no not one (Romans 3:10-12). We are all evil. It is only due to God’s grace that He gives us the ability to do good via the changing of our nature. Thus our choices correspond to our nature, and our nature corresponds to our choices.______________ Hi HarleySportster,Why a sportster? They’re like scooters with a little more CC. What’s that about? However, consistent Christians do NOT have sex. They are very sexual within the proper mode of operandum. _________________Hi JCG,
Actually prayers does NOT start with the person. I suppose it seems that way to the person not trained in Greek and logic. It is often in the reciprocal Middle Voice, meaning it is both you and an outside agent (GOD). Since the ability to believe comes from the gift of Christ’s faith, it all starts and ends with Him.
Also, since God is not bound by space and time, He already knows and has answered our prayers that we will ask of Him tomorrow. We pray primarily as a means of worship, and as a way to acknowledge that our troubles are all in His hands.
I know you’ve never heard this. Most Christians are still in Sunday School via K5.
But even if it did start with the Christian, the volition is on God’s part to answer the prayer as a yes, no or wait. So it is dependent on God. Witchcraft believes that you can actually visualize reality via spell casting, so this is absurd and not even close.
Anointing does not command God. (lol). This is foolish. Nobody commands God. God in eternity decreed various anointing via His will alone.
Calvinism does not believe in baptismal regeneration, but rather that it is indeed a sign via I Peter 3:15-21. If you are talking about infant baptism, I would disagree with Calvin on this, but even this was via a sing or a symbol of our faith, but not the means of our faith.
____________
Hi IW,
It is not I that does the convicting, but the Holy Spirit. While I may cast the truth upon the soil, it is up to God to allow the thorns to stick it to you.
It would make sense that you are not convicted since you are a bastard of a communist. I speak out of respect of course.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
If we swabbed your cheek for DNA I have no doubt we'd find the sperm of Jack Van Impe.
I am sorry Fido, but we did land on the moon. There was only one gunman. And big foot is not real.
No one is scared of your dead man on a stick myth. You'd have better luck trying to convince ear wax that your magic baby is real.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Hi Brian,
Jack Van Impotent, is indeed, impotent.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
....says the Christian.
I've already refuted everything jean has said. I did it before he she or it ever arrived here. This topic bores me. Theists bore me. I wish they'd learn to use their brains so this could be challenging.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Jean,
Why am I an athiest?
Well, many will say because of the lack of evidence, and that is ofcourse true, I am not really capable of believing in such things without something to go on, but really it is because it all just doesn't add up for me. Pain and suffering, well sure, but there is so much more... Flesh eating bacteria, solar flares, the fact the earth gobbles up thousands even millions in frequent natural disasters, the hazardous universe that surrounds us, and so on and so on, none of that seems consistant with a loving creator. If we are talking specifically of Yahweh and the stories of the bible, well, the hole deal walks, talks and smells like BS. The story itself doesn't make any sense, from the hole talking snake apple eating fiasco to the yaweh sacrificing himself to himself to escape his own wrath is rediculous, it doen't make any sense. The god of the bible sucks, he has no sense of humor, he is a big baby, he is completely insane, he has so many negative characteristics their is nothing indicitive of a morally advanced entity described in the book. So I'm not an athiest because their is some logical argument against god that resonates with me, it all just doesn't add up. There very well could be a god, I would just have a mlllion questions, and if it turned out to be Yahweh as depicted in the bible I would be so disapointed "god" is a 6 year old idiot throwing a billion year tantrum.
In the end the idea of some all powerfull all knowing being sitting around watching humans, needing worship, getting angry at the little humans he created for things he knew they would do, it just seems fucking rediculous, the hole deal, rediculous.
Hi Crazy,
Hi Crazy,
Evidence is used as a smokescreen. The evidence is not specified and demonstrated to relate do knowing absolutely. If it is probable, the ratio of error to truth within the data of evidence is NEVER evaluated thus giving the impression that all evidence is equal in merit, when via the rules of probabilty, this is cannot be the case by definition.
However, via ad hominem, there is "empiricial evidence." Via ad hominem, there is any kind of "evidence." But it is not true evidence with the technical meaning of the term in relation to knowing.
However, via empiricism (which is a false way to know) I could easily point to archeology as an ad hominem. Now of course because of this, atheist archeologist quickly distorted the "evidence" (I can name a dozen on top of my head.) This is point out in Dr. Kitchen's book, himself not a Chrisitan.
Another form of empiricial "evidence" would be the design of biological categories. I am NOT a design science guy since they are weak, but this is not what I'm talking about. Another example would be langauge. Dr. Johanson, the guy who found LUCY wrote a book on the evolutionary means of language. It is a very interesting work. You can tell he is struggling.
There is evidence surrounding us. And the best ad hominem empirical "evidence" I can think of, is that you're not dead, you're alive, well fed, and God has given you puppies to love. But even if God.
Pain is via two reason. The first reason is used via design as a warning trigger regarding an attack on the body. The second reason is due to sin. This is why it is so foolish to be an atheist, since you will experience eternal pain and suffering in hell constantly, whilie the Christian will experience zero in heaven.
Another reason why one has pain and suffereing is perhaps because God spanks you, or perhaps to push back your evil. But the pain you will be inflicted with is much worse, and this is hardly evidence against God's Being. lol
God has a sense of humor. What are you talking about? Look at Obama.
God purposely allows you to be deceived in your stupidity ( I Corinthians 1:14).
So you're really not an atheist, just an agnostic. Thanks for being honest. When I was first on this site, I called you all out on this regarding weak atheism. You all challenged me. Now you admit what I said all along, that weak atheism is really not atheism at all, but merely agnosticism with a new name.
God doesn't sit around watching humans. He transcends space and time, and thus has watched us already in eternity. Thus what you do in 5 seconds was observed in eternity.
God simply IS.
These are very poor reasons.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
That's drole.
All you fucking people ever babble about is that the myth of Jesus' virgin birth, miracles, healings, and resurrection is evidence of God.
You're such a consistent moron, via your stupidty, Jean Jean.
And you claim to be a 'Professor'...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Hi RedNeck,
I've missed you. Where've you been? I remember all those sweet memories, of you taking me out of context as you buy me an Ice Scream Cone. Or that time when I beat you in a debate (twice) and you lie and say, oh, no I did. I offered a 3rd debate in which you declined. It's still open. I would be on the defense.
But once again, those memories come in the forfront as you continue to take me out of context.
Evidence in relation to empiricism. Evidence is relation to a-posterori means. Evidence is good and is used when used correctly via a-priori means. It is this that I speak of my dear friend.
What kind of Engineer are you did you say? Taking people out of context like you do in such a pathological way may cause death to those who cross your bridges.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
I am not that well fed, I am struggling pay check to paycheck and end up having to eat mac and cheese half the time. Also it is I who go out into the world and get what I need to survive, your "god" has nothing to do with that. And even with my struggle, I still consider myself very lucky to just be born in a country where I have the opportunity to work hard and survive well. Millions don't, and so when you say "I" am fed, that needs to apply to humanity, and it simply doesn't. Thousands of innocent children die of starvation everyday.
What does that even mean exactly?
Really, zero pain? The greatest pain I could imagine is living well while people I love are suffering. That pain is greater than any phisical harm you could hurt me with. So for me your heaven is my hell, I'm assuming it wouldn't bother you atall, as long as your taken care of who cares about your mom, or uncle, or brother suffering in hell right?
Yahweh is one of the most unnapealing characters ever created my man. He has absolutely no sense of humor at all, you can't make a joke and apply your humor to the character, lame. Same stupid argument my mom use to use when I asked her why god is such a tool, her response: "god has a sense of humor, just look at the platypus." Stupid.
I'm glad it says that in your holy book of choice, in mine it says the god Dalius allows you to be decieved by your stupidity, so it must be correct and Christianiy false, beacuse it says so, you know in writting on paper, infallible.
Not at all, I very much don't believe that any gods exist. But since I am not certain I don't claim any truths on the matter, I certainly don't go around telling people a god certainly doesn't exist this would be intellectually dishonest of me. But it would also be intellectually dishonest to say I'm not leaning on any side, because I'm Micheal Jackson style leaning towards their not being any gods, you just won't catch me saying I know forsure. What I do know, is if a god does exist, and he is the god depicted in the bible, he is a complete fail as a morally advance being and not even deserving of my respect let aslone my worship, something no being should ask for. He has oddly human charasteristics, he is petty, narsassistic, jealous, violent, he is a tool.
How convienient.
I tried to keep it light instead of getting technical, you are yet to really defend the fact christianity makes no sense and reeks of myth. Jean I avoid you on this forum for 2 reasons, 1 your obviously off your rocker, and 2 you go on and on trying to logically prove god's existence, and it bores the hell out of me, yawn. How's this, OK, your god exists. Now I have 10,000,000 questions instead of 8,000,000. So let's say you've proven the existence of your god somehow that satisfies my needs, then were just left with the problem that your god is completely insane, or just plain incompetant.
I'll give you another reason that leads me away from believing in a god. All around the world people claim god exists including you, and everywhere I go I meat more and more complete wackos who claim to know the truth. "God" is represented all around the world by some of the most crazy, sleezy, incompetant, bafoons of all time, many like cartoon characters they are so rediculous. Now ofcourse not saying all are like this I know their are many bright theists, it is just staggerring to me the number of religitards out their pushing their particular brand of crazy. And you jean, you are no different, going on about god's earthquakes in japan, and these types of things, you are one of them. You jean YOU are one of the reasons find it hard to believe in a god, I would imagine a wise god would want himself represented by better people. Benny yin, peter popoff, this Camping guy predicting the end of the world, you Jean, I mean just go on yourtube and watch various preachers preach half of them are completely insane. The words and behavior that come from many theists are just rediculous. I find it hard to believe this wise god would not have put a stop to you and the verbal cow manure you spout in his name, unless he really is yahweh of the bible, then you seem right up his alley of comrades.
I don't have any one particular reason or argument for why I don't believe in god, like I said it just doesn't add up for me and your particualr religion stinks. I wouldn't be shocked if there was a god, I wouldn't be eating my words or anything, I'd just have alote of questions. And if it was yahweh as depicted in the bible, I would want anything but a relationship with such a being.
It takes more words than are in the bible to make any sense of the bible, and the verbal gymnastics that have to be done to defend the book are astonishing. God or not the bible and the entire story as a hole just doesn't make a lick of sense, somethings are so redicluous it is just like some idiot was randomly rambeling away making shit up, probably the case for most of the book.
Hi Crazy,
God gives you the strength, the arms and legs to move, the ability to think, the warm sun for you to live so that you can earn a living. While you may be in denial, It is God that has set you up from eternity to live pay check to pay check for now. The issue is to find out why, but this is impossible if you're an atheist since God doesn't hear the prayers of an atheist.
You are fed nevertheless. Consistent atheism would have communism rule the day where it would be worse. This great country you love was influenced by Christian thinking via Capitalism and a country set up as a Republic. So your atheism certainty counterdicts your desires.
_____
As an atheist, and if you're a reprobate (designed to be spiritually dead forever), then the death of your loved ones comes with the territory of your sin. As a Christian, God equips us with strength to deal with such things, and to lean on Him and His strength to grow stronger. It is the very oppositve with atheism. You grow weaker and more resentful to all thus making yourself a worse kind of a person.
But pain and suffering is due to sin. Again. Jeremiah had a very slow death according to the psuedo-pigraphy in a sewer with open soars and wounds. The record shows that he praised God while he slowly died in agonizing pain. Isaiah was cut in half while inside a hollow cedar tree. Peter was crucifed upside down so as to allow him to choke on his vomit.
You ought to read a very very interesting book. Fox's Book of Martyrs. It shows the torture that Christians have gone through over the centures. Like having their stomaches cut open, tossing in hog food in their open stomach while the hogs eat them alive.
Even today, children are dying or burding to death in Sudan for being a Christian. Yet they continue to praise God. This you do not understand and rightfull so. Christians go through pain and suffering sometimes worse then atheists. But we have something to look to, we have hope.
I plan on learning Bach's D Minor on Organ or Piano while I'm in heaven. It may take 10,000 years, but I'll get it. Oh, and some golf also.
Again pain is not a reason to deny God, but a reason to trust in God. It is a poor excuse for which you do not have an excuse.
____________________
Years and Years ago, while I was in Bible College, a professor told me that God did not have a sense of humor, nor should I. I showed my professor, he was wrong. But he didn't think it was very funny.
God laughs at the wicked. This is shown on countless occasions (Psalms 2:4). We see some humor via Hebrews 11:12 and Exodus 31:1 (Chisel out the two stone tablet again since the others one are not more "which you broke."
.
Also, since God created man in the Image of God, it is logical to say then thus God has a sense of humor since man does. especially the Jews. Think about it, the majority of Funny comedians you know are Jewish.
There is evidence that God indeed does have a Sense of Humor.
___________________
The reason why you and 100% of all other atheists deny Christianity is purely due to an emotional reaction. I've said it before, and I say it again. It's because you simply don't like it. But you may be an elect person that God simply hasn't saved yet. For this I hope. I am not arguing that because God says you are deceived, thus that's proof for God. You are putting words in my mouth. However, via my argument, this is deduced from that fact.
________________
For you to be an atheist (Strong Atheist, all Weak Atheists are agnostics), you must experience ALL claims of theism to say there is no God. This due to the fact that empiricism is the opus operandum of one to attempt at the known. Since thi is 100% impossible, then by definition, it is impossible to be an atheist.
Also, since your experience is limited, you cannot know there is no God since you have not had infinte experience to see so for yourself. Thus there is experience you have not done that may show that God exists. Thus making you an agnostic, and not an atheist.
________________
Sorry I bore you. LOL. Perhaps if this was a lecture, I would tap dance for you as I gave my speech. I may be wrong, but I have a gut feeling about you. I think you may be an elect person and soon will be my brother in Christ. I think there is some sin in your life or some issues that you are trying to over come.
I have not proved that God Exists, I have Shown God's Existence of demonstration of proof. This may be boring to you since this is technical, but you have to be technical with inconsistent atheists. You are not required to respond to me if you don't feel like it. I'm sorry about the pain and suffering in your family.
The wackos in the world that believe in strange false gods or who claim to be gods are all discussed in Scripture. It says ni the last days this stuff would happen.
From my perspective, there is a satan. So logically speaking, Satan would deceive people in many avenues. "religion, atheism, or the Occult, etc. This is not a reason to not believe, but to believe in the true God to protect yourself from deception.
Once again, the Bible talkes about these people. And there are many nuts out there. I tell you how it is. Of course, I'm taken out of context a lot of times. The Japan incident was a consistent valid argument I made via consistent Christianity. That ought to put fear in people that if Japan can go through something, what about me. But I know it doesn't. If it does, you may be of the elect (maybe).
It is not I that makes you an atheist, but your sin. Period.
If somebody is not properly educated like yourself (no offense) of course it isn't going to make sense. You need to understand things. However, while there are very deep complex things in Scripture, the gospel is easy and makes "sense" for anybody to understand.
You were born into sin. You are a sinner. The punishment that is suitable against an infinte eternal God must also be eternal (Hell). God allows a way out. Jesus's death, burial and resurrection so that through HIm, you too can over come the 2nd death of eternal hell and torment.
The greek word for salvation or saved is rescue. However, you wish not to be rescued. You are drowing in a Tsunami, but you say, oh, no I don't. That boat that you're on is fake. It doesn't exist.
This is why the Bible says you are without excuse. There is a way out, but you are to evil. Repent, and put your trust in Christ alone as the mediator for your sins between you and God the Father, lest you be judged for what is rightfully your end.
If you wish not to comment because of boredom, no big deal. However, you gave me no reasons (logical reasons), but rather dislikes or prefaces. This is outside of logical thinking.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
I have no need to take you out of context, to illustrate your stupidity. Your ideas aren't even sober.
No, it's not.
There's another recent post of yours where you babble your inane epistemological drivel that even if you do an experiment 57135 times that you cannot be sure the result will be same the 57136th time, and therefore arrive at the moronic conclusion that therefore we can never have 100% certain knowledge of reality, or some such nonsense.
You know, the kind of pseudo intellectual bullshit that baffles church goer's brains into nodding in agreement with this kind of 'reasoning'?
Do you people think that the next time you boil a kettle of water might possibly not turn to steam once it boils, since we can never be 100% certain of anything?
The kind that's real, Jean Jean.
It's ironic that you bring up pathological liars, Jean Jean.
Remember when you used to claim that you were a university professor in real life?
Your thread is complete irony as well.
It's belief in god that is based on emotions, you fucking tool.
All of the 'learnin's' of the church are based on God's 'wuv', and the 'fear' that you won't get to go on living in some warm and fuzzy place after death if you just 'wuv' Jeebus with all your heart.
Ya, none of that has anything to do with 'emotions'.
You're such a non sequitur, 'Professor' Jean Jean.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Hi Rednef,
I'm just curious, is saying my name twice suppose to be an insult? So if I say a persons name, it's an insult? Rednef, Rednef? Is this a joke from a movie or something?
-If you have no need to take me out of context, then why do you do it so often.
-Yes it is. 57315 of burning a kettle does not tell us it will burn on 57316. Via empiricism, you must experience that which you know. Since you have not experienced the 57,316th attempt at boiling water in a kettle, you do know KNOW if it will happen. You can guess via a probable hypothesis only. But even in empiricism, you cannot even do that since an hypothesis is non-empirical.
But that's not what I said in the post you took me out of context. LOL.
Christianity has nothing to do with emotionals. God is not emotional. So this simply cannot be. You are making things up like a man making up for lost time in prison, serving his time.
Unless you define emotions from a psychological point of view (not Webster's Dictionary), your whole issue on emotions is reflective on the absurdity of your "atheism."
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
Well, that's proof that you're certifiably insane.
How many times did you burn yourself on the stove before you started to 'suspect' that you might get burned the next time you tried touching the red burner?...
Yet, none of you clowns experienced Jesus' virgin birth, his miracles, his crucifixion, or his resurrection, even once.
That's a funny double standard you people have at distilling 'facts'...
I proved that it's all based on 'desires'.
Apparently he's a 'jealous' god...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Hi Rednef,
So just to make sure, you do consider us friend?
Even as you post against my point, you demonstrate my point. LOL.
MIGHT is example RIGHT!!! my dear friend.
Again, I am NOT an empiricist, you are. Thus via YOUR empiricism, you are forced into this. You do not know, you only suppose or suspect your might. WOW, that's a classic.
Rednef, I'm not an empiricist. You are. I don't use empiricism since I've refuted it so many times, the doctor's continually call it dead many times over. Empiricism is a non Biblical way to know, and by definition, one cannot know in empiricism. Like you said, they may suspect or it MIGHT, but they cannot now unless they've experienced it via a-posterori.
desire in theology is not emotion, but rather volition.
Jealous, Angry, Sad these words used for God are anthropomorphic. They are figures of speech. And you have yet to define psychologically speaking what emotion is. You cannot just make it up as you go. It needs to be backed up by scholarly psychological sources please. Until then, you do not know what you are talking about.
Could I get a list of the bridges you helped built so i can find an alternative route.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
Hello,
If I was an atheist, the excuses would logically have to be selfish if I were to be honest (which is rare for an atheist). It would have to be about my sins, my sex. Sleeping Around.
You have to admit, it is the atheists with the hardened hearts. It is only the Holy Spirit that can crack that.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
I am tired of this.
Look, I'm a 60 year old woman. I am not lying. I am post-menopausal. I have osteoarthritis in my back. I am flabby, wrinkly, and generally not pretty any more. I don't have enough money to get my body and face sculpted so I don't look my age. Got it? Screwing around is not one of my desires. Been there, done that, and it was a drag after the first dozen or so one night stands. Now, my back hurts too much to risk sex with anyone who isn't at least as decrepit as I am.
So, get it through your thick head - my atheism is NOT about my wanting to screw around. Maybe you want to screw around - big deal. So do it. Doesn't stop any of the other christians that I can see. Don't knock on my door looking for nooky, cause I'll just use my cast iron skillet on your thick skull.
It's obvious to me - you are selfish, too. BFD
very disrespectfully,
CJ
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
HI CJ,
Messing around is just one reason (the most common). For old people, it then becomes an issue of stubborn arrogance.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
I love when I say the bible doesn’t make sense, and the dumb ass theist reply is “I know, the book is complicated, you need to study bla bla bla…” Dude, I’ve read the book many times, cover to cover, I was raised reading it strictly every day. I’m not saying the book doesn’t make sense because it is difficult to understand, I am saying the book doesn’t make any FUCKING sense, the story in general doesn’t make sense, the bible is not hard to get the jest off and for the most part is written poorly, randomly, and sometimes just blatantly ridiculous like 2 pages about how to treat a women on her period. I mean the book starts out with a botched creation story, RIGHT OFF THE BAT. They couldn’t even get the very first opening story right, it’s a gong show, plants created before light, women and man created at the same time equally, then created again next chapter totally different story, I mean common. The forbidden apples, talking snakes…Genesis to Leviticus is some of the most putrid garbage of literature ever put to paper. Then… Who the heck sacrifices themselves, to themselves, to save people from themselves??? That doesn’t make any fucking sense. The book is a fail. FAIL!!!
I shouldn’t need to be “educated” in nonsense so I can pretend to make sense of nonsense.
Hi Crazy,
What's the deal with your mom? She seems like a nice lady. Is she? Do you get along with your mom? What church does she go to? You ought to go with her.
Those things cannot be explained in any other way. Since God is the creator. My argument is valid. You have no argument.
You have already heard my argument regarding God's Being. God is axiomatically which is understood since we are the image of God. The demonstration of the first principle are the correspondance of the claim to reality within the implications of deductive reasoning.
So if God said He created Fish, He created fish. If God said He created man, and we encounter man, the proof of demonstration. Since God created you with arms and legs, and the ability to work via the deduction of the axiom.
God renews the nature of those He wants to correspond to the choice of Him. You cannot choose good if you are evil. Evil plus evil is always evil. You must have a good nature to choose good.
So if your seemingly nice mom is a Christian, you my be an elect person, just confused or angry or hurt or all the above
While it is true that people have beeen persecuted of all types, it is unique to Christianity with the type of pain and the duration. I'm talking about Real Biblical Christians persecuted by the pagan Roman Catholic Church and the alike. Along with queen mary (bloody Mary) and so fourth.
Pain and suffereing is due to the sin of this world. A little girl that suffers is painful for us, but was decreed in eternity for a purpose. We are not to allow our emotionals to interfer with logical analysis of the truth of Scripture. We can have empathy, and help, but sometimes it is not revealed to us as to the why (Deut 29:29).
The hope I'm talking about is not a hope like your hope. It's not a hope like I hope this will happen. Biblical hope is absolute confidence in the hope that we will be free from all this someday soon.
By definition, an atheist cannot be an atheist BECAUSE it is impossible to know this. There are atheists who claim this. So you are really an agnostic rebelling against your kind loving mother.
Oh, I get it now. Your mom is very legalistic. Yeah, that would drive most little kids away. She does not understand the liberty of Christianity via II Corinthians. I would let you watch Earnest scared Stupid and I'd watch it with you.
I'm not sure what you mean by sense? Common Sense? What is common sense? there are 4 schoosl of common sense. Glenn Beck wrote a book on common sense and I called him out on this too. ,
Anyway, since we are finite, and God is infinite, we are not going to UNDERSTAND everything, but we are going to understand SOMETHINGS. That's part of eternal growth for us. If you have trouble following Stephen Hawking, there are things that will take time for us to grasp. That's what heaven is about.
It's only non-sense because you are emotional and thus antithetical to that which is reason.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
f
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
Non sequitur.
Circular reasoning.
Circular reasoning.
Argument from authority.
Logical fallacy.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
You're right, repeating your name twice isn't very effective. It's much more psychologically destructive ( and godly ) to repeat every post with hollow and meaningless salutations such as ....
" Hi ________ blah blah blah.... Respectfully, Jean Chauvin ( Jude 3 ) "
Hi Redneck,
It is not circular since I am arguing in a straight line. You are using big words in logic that you obviously have not been trained in their meaning and application.
(LOL).
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
H-E-L-L-O-J-E-A-N-C-H-A-U-V-I-N........
I agree. Because he is nonexistent ( except within you polluted mind )
R-E-S-P-E-C-T-E-C-T-F-U-L-L-Y-P-R-O-Z-A-C-D-E-A-T-H-W-I-S-H
( B-U-R-N-I-N-H-E-L-L )
Hi Death,
Do you tend to be creepy making a living or is this just a hobby you do?
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
H-I-J-E-A-N,
I-t'-s -j-u-s-t -t-h-e- w-a-y-G-o-d-m-a-d-e -m-e.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T-F-U-L-L-Y-P-R-O-Z-A-C-D-E-A-T-H-W-I-S-H
( B-U-R-N-I-N-H-E-L-L )
Tha
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Hi Redneck,
I argue in a straight line since God's Being AND His WOrd are both axioms. You speak that which you don't know.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
Fuck you and the christ you rode in on.
I just busted your ass for blatantly trying to pass off someone else's words as your own.
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/29503#comment-346685
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Shame on you Jean. Taking a lesson from the gospel "writers" and plagarizing sources???????????
Article by Dr. Jason Lisle, Ph.D. Astrophysics
http://www.astroillume.com/?p=79
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa
http://atheisticgod.blogspot.com/ Books on atheism
is starting to sound like Fonzie...
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
lol, wtf? I skimmed through that article. So this guy uses hyper inflation as proof that the universe is 6000 years old? This sort of compartmentalization amazes me, or makes me suspicious that he's just in it for the money. I'm sure that AiG are paying him handsomely to present all this science fiction as fact.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Hello,
I am a professional researcher. I helped do the research for this article. I've done this for several authors/individuls. This is one of them. So therefore I did not plagarize.
(LOL).
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa
http://atheisticgod.blogspot.com/ Books on atheism
H-I-J-E-A-N,
S-u-r-e- y-o-u- a-r-e. A-n-d -o-n -M-o-n-d-a-y-s, W-e-d-n-e-s-d-a-y-s -a-n-d -F-r-i-d-a-y-s -y-o-u'-r-e- a- t-e-s-t -p-i-l-o-t, -a-n-d- o-n- T-u-e-s-d-a-y-s, T-h-u-r-s-d-a-y-s- a-n-d -S-a-t-u-r-d-a-y-s- y-o-u'-r-e- a- b-i-g- g-a-m-e- h-u-n-t-e-r- i-n -A-f-r-ic-a.
R-E-S-E-C-T-F-U-L-L-Y-P-R-O-Z-A-C-D-E-A-T-H-W-I-S-H
(B-U-R-N-I-N-H-E-L-L )
You - stubborn. True.
You - arrogant. True.
BFD
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Concerning this, you did not cite your sources. By definition, if you write something down and do not attribute it properly, it is plagiarism. (A professional researcher would know how to spell "plagiarism" as well.) And copyright infringement, if the article/Webpage has a copyright. But a professional researcher would know this.
It does detract from your appeal to authority above (I am a professional researcher) when your writings seem to be plagiarisms.
1)No, I really mean prejudice, like you are assuming things without knowing them.
2)I deny that Blacks are inferior to Caucasians because the premises are false.
2a)We evolved together. It doesn't matter where the source is. We descend from them, but actual "Blacks" are not them.
2b)You are saying inferior, but intelligence is not the only parameter. "Blacks" are physically superior (but not in swimming).
3)I don't steal christian ethics. You see? This is a prejudice, you gave an opinion on me without knowing me.
3a)There's no real "christianity";
3b)I don't steal ethics because religions and sacred text don't explain them, they simply assume them.
4)What I mean for religion is "a collection of knowledge and rituals that connects an individual to a supernatural realm".
5)Empiricism descends from logic. Maybe what you and spence was arguing about is that empiricism and logic form a circular reasoning, but the impasse could be solved simply by observing that by asking questions you are reasoning, so empiricism does mean something.
Sorry but it is you the King of Circular Reasoning. Look at you: you are posing your religion as an axiom, when really it comes from books written by us.
How can you show to us that what you retain true is not only in your head?
But there's no discussion if you don't think on what is being told to you. Sorry, but I don't see effort from your part, and you have to make an extreme effort to understand an atheist vision and so removing a theist interpretation of the world.
What happened to you that moved you to a pro-punishment christian? We know better.
Jeannine,
Saying something is an axiom does not make it so. Can you support your statement (likely a rhetorical question)?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Lol, I think this is one of your funniest posts Jean. Keep up the good work.
Not enough evidence.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
So, rather than answer my questions and comments Jean, you ask me why I ride a Sportster ? Well, my Sportster is over 1200 cc, so your wrong about cc's on Sportsters.
Do you ride ? If so, what do you ride and how often ?
I have ridden shovelheads, panheads, evos and twin cams. I prefer a Sportster ride. Did you know that Sonny Barger, one of the biggest Hells Angels in history, rode a Sportster for years?
So please, let's stick to the comments at hand rather than ad hominems. If you want to talk bikes, I have probably forgotten more than you could possibly ever learn. See, I am a "consistent" biker Atheist. Hehehe.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
The last thing I would ever do EVER is go back to my moms church, ewww. She is a Jehovah's Witness. Yes, my mom is a very nice lady for the most part, she's also completely bonkers. No, I do not have a very good relationship with her although I try. My mom is so heavy into the religion drug she can't have normal conversations, it is all she thinks about every second, everything you say offends her or just makes her geek out. She is literally intorelable for more than brief visits, not just for us the kids, most people. My mom is a perculiar character to me as although nice, she has a very dark side that I find quite disturbing. First she lives, eats and breaths the rapture. It is all she thinks about, it is what her life is literally dedicated to as a pioneer in the Johos. She goes out and knocks on peoples doors and tells them the end is coming. Although she has lived through multiple rapture prediction failures from the governing body (the men who control the literature), she still strongly believes the end is coming in the next 50 years (her words) and only her and her little group will get into paradise. Now she not only believes this, but desperately wants it to happen, and this is not some magical poof rapture, this is a fucking bloody violent natural disasters or something type of rapture. I find this disturbing.
Another thing that rubs me the wrong way about my mom and people like her is their blind willingness to do anything for this religion and this god, regardless of what it was, it wouldn't matter it was for Jehovah/Yahweh/Jah/Allah... For example when I was about 13, I asked her "If god knocked on the door and told you he was going to take me for my non-belief and hurt me or send me somewhere horrible would you argue against it or bow down and let him take me." And after a few minutes of awkward theistic verbal gymnastics I found the awnser was indeed bow down and let him take me. I wondered what would she do after, knowing I was suffering, would she just smile and fake it for her god, more than likely she would and eventually forget, this disturbs me. This mindstate of blind following creeps me the hell out, stand up for yourself, make up your own mind this stuff is just wierd.
If presented with a button that began the violent rapture, my mom would press it. My little 80 pound seeminly nice mom would press that button as fast as she could, even if she knew the direct result was billions dying in horrible deaths, as long as it was for Jehovah it would be ok for her, not a second of thought, just press.
This way of thinking truly disturbs me. So people like my mom...nice and not so nice, strangely dark and twisted in deep parts of their character.
This is non-sense man, theistic nonsense. Again your trying to prove to me god exists (with lame reasoning), I don't even argue the possiblity of a god like entities existence, because it is just that, somewhat "possible." Giant goldfish from planet scaleon are possible aswell, I don't find it too interesting debating whether giant goldfish from Scaleon exist or not. How about explaining how you get from your personal conclusion that a creator exists, to his name is Yahweh, he caused the earthquakes in Japan, he doesn't like gays and stuff...oh and that god couldn't possibly be any other of the thousands of gods man believes are real, just my god big daddy Yahweh.
This is such nonsense, it's like those banking comercials with the kids where the banker tries to make sense of his sneaky shady ways but even the kids smell the bs, I think a kid would reply to this "so god created man, man exists, so god exists? ummm, that doesn't make sense."
Yes Jean I must be confused and angry it is the only explanation. It is not the absurd dogma, the rediculous garbage littering mans holybooks, the loopy mentalities and glazed eyes of the religious, the violent nature of the deities, and the overall general stanky BS that is religion, no I must just be confused. I should go back to church and re-indoctrinate myself to make the above sit right with me.
It's great that you make sense of things through sripture, got any ways of making sense of things using your brain?
Just more evidence your incompetant god can't relay his message to his people effectively. You will die in my moms worldview, you liberal false Christian 14a movie watcher you, bwahahahaha!!!
I wouldn't use glenn beck and sense in the same sentence.
Too bad Hawking wouldn't be there, being the apostate he is.
Jean you are my definition of non-sense.
Wrong on all counts. Your gods existence and its word are both falsehoods. THAT is the axiom. It has been proven. You speak that which you don't know. You suffer the common theist failure known as emotional reasoning. Learn some logic and learn how to remove your emotions from your arguments, then come back.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
No they aren't.
At least they have not been established as fact.
I have yet to see underlieing reasons to accept them as fact.
And to start using the Bible as back up you have to independantly demonstrate that it is accurate.
Do you understand that the KJV was written by people born and raised as Catholics? Using material passed down through the generations by Catholics?
There is a mathematical proof that all triangles are equilateral.
All it requires is to get the person to accept a zero'th premise.
That "if" is your downfall.
You can't eliminate it.
You can avoid using it and can pretend it isn't there but you can't really get away from it.
I've met people that I swear interpret "if" as meaning "given that".
Wtf? Why does your username begin with the word 'butter?'
That is blasphemy.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare