Because beliefs usually inform actions, and some belief-inspired actions can lead to real harm to real people.

And people have often thanked us for helping to show them the foolishness of God-belief.

Some of us value truth, and the honest search for truth, and religion is the opposite of truth and honesty.

Many things people do are things they don't have to do, that is not the point.

Religious beliefs have a strong influence on how people vote, and how people who get into positions of power act, so they can have a major impact on a whole nation.

 

Pleased to meet you.

Personally, I think monotheistic religions can be demonstrated to be divisive, oppressive and readily subverted to extreme causes. They are also morally inconsistent. 

Those who don't believe the arbitrary cultural 'morals' of theism are described as sinners, gentiles, dhimmis and unbelievers and called immoral, not on the basis of their behaviour but on the basis on their thoughts. 

The christian religion I grew up on insists there is ancestral (genetic) sin and eternal hell and torment for justifiable doubts. It insists the crime of not accepting the invisible holy spirit is the unforgivable sin. 

Worst of all, it crams these fallacious arguments down the throats of young children before they are capable of self defence - arguments that are no more than ad hominem backed by fallacies from force.

"Believe you are evil, you stupid, worthless child, or be tortured forever." That pretty much sums up fundamentalist christianity for me.

Liberals may drone away about 'only seeing the negatives' but this is a joke. Jesus is meant to have died to save humans from their crime of existing. There is no other possible interpretation. 

None of these points address the foolish cognitive biases of the theistic believer. Even the most sophisticated christians must ultimately embrace arguments from complexity, whereupon their assertions are exposed. 

We have a responsibility to speak out against the hate crimes and embedded ignorance perpetuated by christianity and islam, wherever they may be found.

 

 

 

You sound young and you also sound like you are having an emotional reaction to things you are not used to hearing.

Why do we argue? First off because in western societies the right to criticize any and all claims by our elected officials or even merely our neighbors is protected by secular law. Anything less is fascism and no one wants that.

SECONDLY, the right to make claims on any subject IS NOT our issue. The ability to demonstrate the credibility of any given claim IS our issue.

Why do we question others beliefs? Why shouldn't we? If humans never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves. We would still believe the earth was flat ant the Egyptians would still believe that the sun was a god.

Do you think our species should dwell in the past and base their lives on tribal myths? Or do you think we have better tools to measure reality, like science, in technology, medicine, and space exploration?

Believing in invisible friends retards discovery and infects politics. None of us here are out to end religion by force of law. But we damned sure don't think humans need ancient stories by any label.

Why do we argue? Because we have BETTER information about the nature of nature and the universe and we think humanity can do better than Santa for adults.

Do not confuse the separate issue of human rights(the right to believe what you want) which everyone should have, And the separate issue of proving what comes out of your mouth(ON ANY SUBJECT)

To be intellectually brave one has to face their own claims, and be unafraid of having them questioned. Looking for justifications is NOT testing, but merely looking for an excuse to hold a position.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god" Thomas Jefferson.

 

 

Speaking of which, who started the idea that dozens of specialized gods are inferior to a single swiss army knife god? Obviously they have never wasted money on a swiss army knife.

 

Because arguing is fun.

Prostitution creates competition for the wives of men. Most married women (regardless of religion) would feel insecure of their husband's loyalty to them. If prostitution were made legal in, say, developing countries many women, and even girls would probably become prostitutes for money even though its not always their will. They might have no choice since being a prostitute is one of the most high paid jobs and to live a better lifestyle, they need the maximum amount of money.

 

I dont really understand why polygamy is something Christians are against either.

 

Maybe its because the consequences of drinking too much alcohol and taking too much drugs can lead to disastrous consequences. It was on the news last time, a guy died from consuming too much caffeine. People can do things that they regret when they're drunk. I dont think there are laws that are completely against the comsumption of alcohol and drugs, just something about it being bad to be drunk.

Most crimes against god are actually pretty reasonable. Like stealing, murdering e.t.c. The only crime I have trouble understanding is homosexuality.

No, as in i have trouble understanding why its said to be a crime in the bible.

There is always prostitution. The question is why there are laws against it. So far as the evidence is concerned the only laws which have ever had an effect on prostitution are those which regulate it mainly requiring health certificates and eliminating white slavery as we racists call it because "those chinamen love our white wimmen."

I agree there are many places in the world where prostitution is the best paying job a woman can get. So why are there laws keeping women out of the best paying job they can get?

But please tell me why athletes can sell their bodies or why it is not selling one's body.

The Romans didn't like it. It was an oriental custom. I have even read an article in Haaretz of rabbis working to remove the laws against bigamy and return to Judean traditions.

By current thinking on health and nutrition (which I think is bullshit) most people die from stuffing their bodies with red meat and starches. BS because that is the hunter-gatherer diet is that and fruits. Grains as in wheat and rice only entered the human diet as a major component about 6-8000 years ago and really screwed up people until modern times.

Factually there are more deaths per capita from prescription drugs than from illegal drugs. There are deaths from aspirin. There are no known deaths from marijuana. Even alcohol deaths are extremely rare when "taken as directed" and as directed is the social wisdom. In fact mixing drugs and alcohol can be safe if it pills then drink not drink then pills. You can stop drinking or fall asleep before the former becomes lethal. The latter is a drunk sealing his fate.

In any event if there are social issues they need be addressed rationally not be rednecks speaking for their retarded deity.

What might be a crime against god? Excuse but there is no god. One has to ask what kind of fool thinks a god would care in the least about human affairs when in fact humans can deal with theft and murder without any "superior" advice. If someone steals from me he is advised to be more concerned about what will happen to him when I find him than what might happen in the great by and by after he is dead.

As for homosexualty, I am all in favor of it. It improves my odds.

In a few cases, very few.

I actually think religion has helped people. Atheism could have done the same thing, but due to the circumstances or mental contraints, or merely lack of time, religion took hold and actually did some good.

i wonder if atheism is too fast a change for some people, and if it can be gradually introduced, as sort of a gradual therapy.

even Karl Marx stated that communism can never be brought about by a coup, but that it works best as a gradual evolution, and that it is inevitable. maybe thats why true communism has never existed yet, and it has never really worked yet.

 

Just a thought, not a position.

 

but I do see your point, about imposing views on others.

 

 

 'proving', 'logic' and ego?

Welcome to the forum.

Why are you arguing?

Why is the sky blue?

Why doesn't my food from Taco Bell stay warm?

 

I haven't had Taco Bell in years... last time I had it... let's just say it came out steaming warm.  And that's about as much value as I put on the OP, as much as a bean burrito that has fully passed through the digestive system.

mmmm fries supreme....

The group ringing doorbells are not atheists.

The theists of this world want to impose their morals and views on others through civil laws such that they can easier comply to the ancient rules created thousands of years ago for goat herders and tribal societies.

If laws were passed that made it a crime to not follow all 10 commandments explicitly they could systematically eliminate all dissent and non-compliance, at least open non-compliance.

Many theists desire a Christian nation where all laws are based on the Jesus and the creative writers of the 1st and 2nd century. Somehow they feel it's their responsibility to force beliefs on others. This view comes from the likes of St Ambrose and St Augustine that held it was fine to torture someone to get them to accept their true beliefs.

Yet, the Jesus portrayed in the Gospels told his disciples to walk away from any town or village that refused them and knock the dust off their feet.

So knock the dust off your feet and go to the next town or country or planet. Then you would be following the Jesus.

But no, they want to make their morals as laws.

This is not freedom and has no place in the US.

If you are a Christian and don't want to marry another person of the same sex you don't have to. No law needed.

If you are a Christian and don't want to drink or buy alcohol you don't have to. No laws needed.

If you are a Christian and don't want to go into strip clubs you don't have to. No laws needed.

If you are a Christian and don't want an abortion don't get one. No laws needed.

If you are a Christian and don't want to gamble you don't have to. No laws needed.

If you are a Christian and don't want to watch porn you don't have to. No laws needed.

If you are a Christian and don't  want to accept evolution you don't have to. No laws needed. If you think that creationism deserves to be a public school topic then so does Enki and the New World Order how the Sumerians believed the Universe was created. And the Aztec beliefs and every other belief that has zero support from science on how the Earth and Universe got here.

 

Instead of just avoiding activities like these the do gooder believers pass laws that ban them.

How is that not forcing your beliefs on others??

 

If you are a Christian why do you get to have an oath in the pledge of allegiance in the US to your god pushed on others?

If you are a Christian why do you get to have the name of your imaginary friend on the money in the US. I like the Sumerian god Enki better, I think it should be in Enki we trust, all Yahweh believers pay in gold.

 

 

Exactly and that is what believers do, they try to change everyone's beliefs to be theirs or have laws passed to make their beliefs the law.

So, you want all theists to stop trying to implement their morality on others right?

Great. There are many puritnaical laws you need to have rescinded and repealed in the US. Anonymouse listed a few you can start petition drives to change and I listed a few above.

All laws that prosecute people for victimless crimes should be repealed immediately.

The Jesus said you were your brother's keeper but he never said to make laws to implement his ideas. Instead he said render Caesar that which is his.

 

 

Ah, yes, when they give it to me, it's always nice and warm. I'm questioning why it doesn't stay warm when I drive somewhere or something. Why does it have to cool down?   

(Yes, I know why, you silly, silly people that might think I'm serious.)  

OP, you'll notice that the best source for reasons to argue against theism, is often from the 'ex' theists, themselves. Some of them were not only 'hard core' church goers, some of them were ministers, preachers, etc.

It's difficult to ignore the 'reasons to argue' they provide.

You know you are dealing with a fruitcake when he claims to be the head of a hereditary monoarchy.

Am I the only one who finds this use of the term kingdom to be incongruous?

 

The problem with these 'appeals', is that they are appeals to emotions, and not to reasoning and logic.

It's beyond sophomoric to stand back and not see the clear picture of the ramifications of letting people indulge in choosing what the 'truth' is, when that truth is a storybook which they have in their one hand as they're waving it as a gavel into lecturing others that their behaviours are 'evil', because of the storybook.

Not 1 single theist, IME, has ever been able to explain 'why' things are 'sin', or 'evil', other than to parrot 'because, God says so'.

IOW, they can't rationally explain the justification for the verdict, they just knee jerk and regurgitate edicts.

And they get upset that they are characterized as irrational, when they've done nothing to the contrary.

Duhhh....

 

I think that jesstacia has a valid point. There is no point in arguing because you cannot change a “believer’s” point of view by rational arguments. If they were rational, they wouldn’t be believers in the first place. There is no rational argument that you can use with a baby that will keep him from soiling his diaper. He just doesn’t understand.
 It is probably best not to argue with them, but to merely point out the fact that, other than circular arguments, they have no evidence that can support their position, and just leave them alone. By circular arguments I mean the sort of, “I believe there is a god because the Bible says it.” And, “I know the Bible is correct because it is the divinely inspired word of God.” 
 We should only argue with theists when their beliefs and actions cause harm to others.

 

 

AW SHIT.........

 

I'm sure envy is off in the corner envying all the other deadly sins and wondering why it isn't included. 

Well said JohnPaul the Skeptic. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

So that's why Ktulu got diarrhea after eating at TBell...

 

"If you could reason with believers there wouldn't be any." -- Dr. House

While I agree we should not knock on doors and hand out atheist tracts (unless that will get them to stop) their beliefs should not be treated differently from any other superstitions. The difference between an apparition of a ghost and seeing a dead virgin is what? Are not both ghosts? The latter tends to be chattier but she is a woman after all.

Kali, a sacred tree and Yahweh are not intrinsicly different.

If a tree will punish breaking taboos how does that differ from "God will get you for that."

This is true. I've never had problems getting any reasonable people to notice the non sequiturs in theistic dogmas and teachings.

Here's a survey taken before and after a Hitchens debate on the feelings of whether the RC church is a 'good' force in the world. The difference is dramatic.

 

 

This titillates me. "There is always prostitution" is until now probably true, but if there are reasons for prostitution (if it's causal) then it could end too.
I don't care about laws, I don't care about forced prostituion here because I think I suppose we can all agree that forcing somebody to do something is not so right.

So what about who chooses to do prostitution? If it is a well paying job, then it's right to go for it? Well sorry I disagree. I don't think it's a great thing to do. A job is useful for the comunity. Build something, study something else, go cure cancer and aids. Prostitution does nothing.

Please do this thing for me, go to read some interview, read what prostitutes (anywhere: singapore, new york, scotland, even arctic if there are some) think about their job and the world in general. I never found anything positive.

I could care to elaborate more, for example athletes vs prostitutes "selling" their bodies, but I require a first answer to this.
Keep in mind I'm not telling "IM RIGHT YOUR WRONG", I'm just exposing what I found. If I'm here it's exactly to discuss about it.