First off there is no such thing as "agnostic". If you understood the roots of the prefix of the word and the suffix of the word, you would know that it was horribly cobbled together by Thomas Huxley to mean "fence sitter:. But the reality to the core of what the word means it can only be and should only be used as a qualifying word, not a stand alone word.

Now, it IS ok to be unsure. But there is also a direction one leans while being unsure which is common lexicon people wrongfully use in the word "agnostic".

IF IF IF IF, one is unsure but leans to a god existing or "something" existing they are an "agnostic theist".

But you can also be unsure and at the same time say, "what I have seen so far is all bullshit". That would be an agnostic atheist.

I lean toward's a god not existing and that is my current position, although semantically speaking only, I have not lived the future so only in that semantic sense "I don't know".

I hold no god belief currently and reject all current and past claims due to lack of evidence. I am only agnostic in the sense that I have not lived the future.

NOW, as far as being a "coward" don't put yourself down for not always sticking up for yourself. Battles are never absolute and since we don't know your personal life or your personal psychology, while we can give you advise only you know what is going on around you.

I never fault someone for being blunt or blasphemous and open OR quiet and reserved, it is always situational and case by case. Life is never either or.

But in any case, the fact that you are here says that at a minimum when you need a place to be yourself, you have found one. Only you can decide, even with any advice we may give you, what you should or should not do.

Let me give you an example. At a bar one night a jackass jock who hated my team wanted to pick a fight with me. The truth was he could have easily kicked my ass. Did that make me a "coward" because I didn't want to fight him, or because I was physically weaker than him?

NO. here is how I handled the situation. I simply said, "You can call me a wimp all you want for not fighting you, but if you lay one hand on me, I will call the police". That ended the fight.

Now, who was smarter? The asshole hung up on pride who would have ended up in jail, or me, who thought his way through the conflict?

THE POINT IS, there is no shame in picking your battles. There is no shame in sticking up for yourself but at the same time there is also no shame in knowing when to back off. Life is never either or and there is plenty of shades of gray.

We cant ultimately give you a script to solve your problems. Just be yourself. You don't have to make everything a battle, but you also don't have to think you are a coward because you have real fear of how someone might react.

I don't like being confrontational, either.  And sometimes, I have to be polite if I am on the job.  So, here are some various things I say:

In response to "would you like to come to my church?" - "Thank you, I have plans for Sunday mornings."  I don't have to tell them my plans include sleeping in and perhaps ...

In response to "I'm praying for you." - "Thanks."

In response to "Praise the Lord" or "Hallelujah" or similar - "And the paramedics, firemen, doctors, policemen, linebackers, medical researchers, quarterback, center, goalie, etc"  What ever is appropriate.

In response to anything else I am not sure what the heck they are going on about - "thank you for sharing that."

Occasionally, I will say, "I'm really not into that."  Especially if I want someone to back off.

Very seldom will I say, "I'm an atheist" unless confronted.  And then I will.  I used to say it frequently - but too many people, it seems to me, take that as a challenge to waste an hour or two of my day arguing about religion.  And I really do have better things to do most days.

Now your mom may say she has the right to know just what your other plans for Sunday are.  My mom had a heck of a time remembering I was an adult.  At age 28, you have the right to say, "I'm going to have a lovely day, thank you.  May yours be as pleasant."  You do not need to share every detail of your life with your parents once you are an adult if you don't wish to. 

You just have to find your own comfort zone.  Recognize that your zone will change with time.  That's okay.  Some people around here are more comfortable being more forthright.  That is fine for them.   Some people have been more confrontational with their own families.  If that works for them, good.  If it doesn't work for you, that is also good.

It depends on the situation for me.

Much like CJ said, if someone is offering me a church invitation on the job, generally I just have an  excuse.

Now when fundies try to "witness" to me, it becomes a whole different ballgame. It just took me lots and lots of practice at telling people that I was an Atheist, to get over my fears of persecution. That and I made sure that I read alot of books,so that I would have all of the facts on my side in order to make sure that a fundie never stumps me or finds me without an answer to their rhetoric. I have found, that the more information I have on my side, the more confident I have become. I would suggest reading alot of Hitchens,, Dawkins, Dennett and as many books on the history of religion that you can find. I also suggest even reading some of the Bible, so that you can throw some of their scripture back at them. Knowledge is truly power.

  This may seem a  gross  over-simplification, where it's off the bottom of a soup can or a bazooka-joe comic-strip wrapper. However, According to what I am reading  your  'assumptions  are  religion and myths  are one in the same'.  Am I correct in assuming that about  what you are saying to the board?  If you decontextualize the purely cultural aspects, maybe fears are rather silly.  But if it is too tough on you.  Any chance of making for yourself different arrangements?

 A-m-e-n. 

    What is going on w/ your situation ???  This is surprising , please bare with me, I dont understand your initial feelings you are feeling.  You require some 'distance'?  Before I'm the somebody who has others  'upset' by "my" comments.  Explain what you are being forced to do.

You're not being a 'coward" dude.... don't be so hard on yourself.... There is a big difference between keeping things to yourself, and denying who you are to strangers...

Hi OPIE,

ha ha ha. Hilarous OP. Truly funny. The thing is, God mocks you from the heavens (Psalms 2:4). Him and His angels are laughing at your stupidity. You're always be a coward since you are afraid to embrace the truth.

Thus your trouble of conviction. Get some backbone my friend. Atheism does not have this. They must borrow from Christianity. Or Except Christ and be a man of courage. Thanks for the laughs.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Oh and to any Christian reading this, you may not be privy to the history of Jean's posts. He is attempting to put us on display like zoo animals.

When I say "fuck you" or "fuck your god" I am strictly talking about HIM and what he has presented as what he believes his god is and or will do.

He started a thread about Japan and claimed that they were served up the tsunami and deserved it and it was a warning to us. Now, having been married to a Japanese woman, and known her friends and family and having visited Japan and knowing about their high education rate and low crime rate. I found his absurd view of his god sick and offensive.

He is nothing more than a troll and most certainly one with the same tyrannical view of his god as many Muslims in the east view Allah as being.

Not all Christians view their god like Jean here does. There are lots of believers I can get along with, Jean is not one of them.

Zeeboe: To me it doesn't look like cowardice, more like too much concern for people's good. The others should be able to handle something too. Not everyone is going to be as nice to them. 

What's wrong about saying... "God? That idea never made sense to me. Looks like people just believe what they were taught as children."

Usually they just respond with one big "Ooooo-Kkkk..." 


Usually, I'm a coward when it comes to physical confrontation, authority and confidence and dogs consider me an easy prey. (always been the weakest and slowest kid in the class) But I love the competition on intellectual level. And arguing religion is one of the most available opportunities. Christians are rather tame around here. It is more a challenge to keep it simple stupid for them and stick to basic points. Usually I take every available opportunity. By the rumors of how senior neighbours at church were looking daggers at my grandma, the latest episode of public discussion on local Xcamp did not go unnoticed. But hey, Mr Stefan himself said, please be VERY CRITICAL, so I was

Hello,

Brian, come on, you like me a little. Let's be honest, i represent Christianity 100% consistent. The Christians today have been bitten in the ass by the poison of atheistic liberalism. So of course you get a long with most Christians today duh. They're programmed in atheist language. lol.

But i"m hardcore. I have not been bitten by your poision. I have been guarded by the Holy Spirit. With my weapons of intellect you to kingdom come and you know it. That's why i piss you off. I pissed you off way before the Japen thing. Give me a break.

Gallow. I do speak respectfully. Even though you are a pagan going to hell to have your feet slowly pulled from your body while intense pain occurs due to your stupid evil, you are still my sister. You are my sister in ADAM. And i do respect you, but I'm hard on you. I'm not just blowing trumpets, as a logician, i am bringing atheism to it's consistent conclusions. If murderering your family as atheiism would have no problem with is offensive or not respectful, then you are in a system that you find offensive. This is so odd. This is why God calls you people foolish.  I DO NOT respect th evil you and your system is doing to this country and our children. My kid is attacked daily by your crap. When she grows, she''ll be kicking your kids butt, and when they have kids, your kids butt.

But i'm a nice guy. I would treat you like a lady. I would refer to you gently. HOWEVER, if you wanna play with the big boys, either grow some balls or become a feminist lol.

Forks in the head lady, um, hi? I do view your position. I just perported it in my post. Quit goofing around you guys and either murder people as atheism dicates or bow your knee to the One who created you les the Creator burn you.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Make that five.

<---

  Thanks for the correction Kapkao     

A little out of order, but I want to address this first. Your intuition is right, you cannot really have peace of mind when you're scared. Whatever it is that's holding you back from what you want, that is the thing that needs to be dealt with. So, kudos to you on being able to admit your fears. That is actually a very courageous thing to do, and there are many (most? by a large majority?) people who never get to that stage. But it is the first stage, and it is necessary. You can't deal with something if you're not even able to recognize it.

Not as crazy as you might think.

And another kudos for recognizing that it was your parents' job to raise you, and they did fail (though not completely, just in a few important ways). It definitely is not your fault.

However, while it was their responsibility, and they did not manage to give you the love and support you needed, and they are clearly responsible for that lack, I think you might want to reconsider focusing on the words 'their fault'. In one sense, it is correct, and I'm not disputing that at all. But in another way, it has a tendency to lead you down into a 'blame game', and focusing your mental energies on the regrets of the past, rather than focusing more on "Okay, my past sucked, and I know they were responsible for that, so I don't have to blame myself. Now, where will I go from here?" Because it is your present-day experience and your hopes and plans for the future that will be the key to overcoming your fears and any other obstacles that are in your way. It is super-important to understand the past. It's just not good for one's mental health to ruminate on it over and over. Doing that will lead to more fear, possibly depression, and certainly bitterness and dissatisfaction.

I'm not saying that that is what you're doing. I'm just saying it's a common pattern, and you should be aware of it and try not to fall into it. Focus on changing the things that you can change, in your present life, e.g. today, right now. You can't change the past. It's done. The key idea for you now is "recovery". If you're driving along a road in winter and hit a patch of ice and the car goes out of control, it doesn't help to go "Oh that damn ice, they should have salted the roads, those idiots!" You gotta focus on, "Well, regardless, I'm in it now, so I better do something to recover control and balance."

Okay, next. You've mentioned several times your fears and being easily scared. It's good you're aware of that. For a long time, I was not aware of my own fear. I couldn't identify my feelings. If my mother or someone else asked sincerely "How do you feel?" my honest answer to them was invariably, "I don't know." And I didn't know. Or rather, I didn't have the right words, nor the right understanding, nor even a sense of how important it is to have this awareness.

Long story short: I ended up having a crisis at work where I literally (yes, literally) could not move my fingers to type in order to complete a project I had been assigned. I had been struggling with this kind of 'mental barrier' (that's what I called it back then) for a long while, and it got worse and worse, and then I was literally 'stuck'. And this freaked me out. Eventually, I asked myself, "What do you call that? You want to do something. And you should be able to do it. You know how to do it. Nobody is stopping you. Nothing is stopping you. You know exactly what you want to type, you've planned it all out, you've got all the resources you need to do it. And you still can't do it? What the fuck is that?"

Of course, that mysterious force holding back my fingers was simply fear. But I had no awareness of my fear, and had no name for it.

Today, I don't just call it fear. I've learned a lot more about it, and today I call it anxiety. Specifically, I'm diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Which means I'm often afraid, for no particular reason, and I'm not even aware of it. Well, I'm actually much more aware of it now, these days, since getting diagnosed and treated, than I was at first. My first awareness was of my body's response to fear. My stomach would be tight, my muscles tense and stiff, by breathing very shallow. Then I became aware of my thought-patterns, worrying about the future, re-playing old conflicts in my memory, always imagining the 'worst case scenario', etc.

Anyway, the point is simply that, while I'm no doctor or expert, your story makes me think you might want to bring up these issues with a doctor or counsellor of some kind, to get local support from a mental health professional. Personally, I would recommend it. It was the key to really getting a handle on my anxiety. Today, anxiety is much less a part of my life, and my improved awareness of it allows me to catch it early and to take preventative measures (e.g. breathing deeply, relaxing muscles, focusing on something in the present moment (rather than past or future)), so that it rarely gets even close to the level it was at only a year or two ago. I am also taking some medication (actually an anti-depressant, which also happens to work for anxiety), and that was the other big thing that has helped. Actually, there's one more thing, which is called Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. It's great, and it fits nicely with a rational mind (no woo woo crap), and even has a significant amount of scientific evidence to back it up (unlike other forms of counselling, which usually have a little bit, but not much, and usually don't show very much benefit overall). Also, CBT is a skill that you learn, and you can either learn it on your own without a paid counsellor, or you can get a head-start with the help of a counsellor, and then once you learn it, you just do it on your own, and don't need to continue counselling.

I don't think you'll be able to get the kind of feedback you need from your parents. Unfortunately, while it takes years of education to become any kind of professional anything, all it takes to become a 'professional' parent are a working set of genitals. Many people are hopelessly clueless about parenting. You don't even need a license.

You're going to have to get through this phase without expecting too much from your mother. She may simply be unable to really help. Again, I would recommend finding local support. Of course, we're here too, but it's not quite the same as being able to talk to someone face-to-face about this stuff.

Good luck! Honestly, I think you've already done the hardest part, which is the self-awareness. Once you can identify the issue, you can deal with it in time.

Thanks for the response natural. I tell ya, I would never admit any fears to anyone in real life because I know better then that. And these days, I honestly have no problem telling people I am not a believer. The thing is, sometimes beforehand, I take too long of a second to tell them and/or I get butterflies in my stomach, hearts starts to beats fast, etc. But then I tell them, and all is fine.

So I like to think I am not a coward because a coward runs away from his fears, whereas I have been able to face them. It's just learning how not to be scared that I am curious about, but I guess the best answer is - Keep doing what I'm doing, and in do time, I won't be. I told a young woman over the phone that I recently met about not being a Christian, and was okay. I guess it all depends on the person.

I can't help but blame my father for this fear - I couldn't tell him anything without him getting furious, and he used to scare the heck outta me. I use to also say "sorry" waaaay to much to people. Again, that blame belongs to my father. He'd actually SCREAM at me if I made a mistake. He's a much better person now that he doesn't do drugs, but back then, drugs were his whole life.

But anyhow, I agree getting some help would be a good idea. At this time however, I am not able to because of the $. So I try to be my own shrink when out there in the jungle. I like to think I am better then what I use to be. It just depresses me because I am pushing 30, and the things I have been doing and thinking are things I should have been doing as a teenager. Mentally and socially, I am aging very, very slowly.

My answer to it all is - Never quit. Never, never quit. Keep making mistakes over and over again, don't worry what strangers think, keep doing things that scare me, and in due time, I will get use to it and get braver and get smarter. That is how our ancesters learned, and that is how I intend to learn too.

I forgot to mention that there may also be low-cost or free counselling in your area, depending on where you are. You might try looking around to see what different organizations are providing.

Hey,

I understand where you're coming from. It is difficult to express your disbelief in a heavily Christian area. I live in a small town in South Dakota where virtually everyone is some brand of Christian or another.  The one piece of logic that has helped me is that the philosophic burden of proof rests upon the person who makes the claim just as in science the burden of evidence rests upon whomever is making a claim. A theist is claiming that there is a god, he is making a claim. An atheist, a non-theist simply does not subscribe to the story being offered and is making no claim that need be substantiated.

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further" -Richard Dawkins

My advice is to read anything and everything you can get your hands on from both sides of the fence so that you can make an informed decision beyond "agnostic" and be able to defend it if need be. Know and be solid with where YOU stand and the rest will be a bit easier for you.

If it makes you feel any better, I would have been driven insane being around so many hardcore theists of any kind. I had a hard time just running into a couple of them, and the treatment I received at their hands lit in me a fire that would have cost me greatly in such an environment. I would have constantly gotten into fights, and probably ended up being expelled from multiple schools. Worst case scenario would see me dead or in prison.
There isn't necessarily anything wrong with being scared, and depending on the circumstances you may have more than enough reason to justify your fears. As has been suggested, the best thing to do is expose yourself to conflicts between religion and other religions and non-religion, without jumping into the fray until you feel ready and/or compelled to jump in.

I'm kind of at the other end of the spectrum. It's very difficult for me to hold my views inside if I hear something that doesn't make sense, or if I know what they are saying is factually incorrect. I personally do not think it's rude to argue with someone, as long as you are not attacking them personally. The thing is, many people take it as a personal attack if you say something negative about their beloved religion. Try to find a freethinking type group in your area to find more similar minded people to hang out with. That might make things less annoying. One way to be non confrontational is to just ask them questions about what  they believe. Just try to learn more about them and why they think the way they do. I wish I could be more confrontational myself but most of the religious people I'm around are at work, and it's usually not a good idea to get into a religious discussion there.

                 Since you live in Austin  why don't you check out the http://www.atheistexperience.com . The podcast live on Sundays at 4:30 your time then meet up at El Arroyo's restaurant after the show, that's an open invitation to all Austin atheists, tell Russel Glasser Jeffrick sent you. Also on channel 16 in Austin.

To the original poster who asked how they could be more brave when dealing with theists.

Here is how you do it. Not with all theists because everything is situational and not all theists are dicks like Jean here. But I'll deal with him now, to demonstrate how to deal with pricks.

Jean, your projecting your bullshit "true Scotsman" fallacy. It didn't work the last time you used it, and it doesn't work when others use it.

I was a Christian and I have no doubt the op was. You don't own any legal rights as to how people view their holy books. How someone behaves does not change the label they hold. Beyond Saving is an atheist, and so am I but we have NOTHING in common other than that.

But if I wanted to be a Christian, you Jean certainly are the worst example of what I would want a Christian to be. You are a self centered bigoted asshole. You don't even constitute a decent human being, regardless of what label you hold.

To the op. What he doesnt get is that humans are individuals. Sharing a label doesn't change the fact that we are individuals. I doubt that such a self deluded asshole like Jean is ever going to get it or even care. He is simply a child throwing a tantrum trying to get attention.

Way to advocate for your super hero, dissent is a crime. Hitler thought dissent was a crime too.

I think everything has to be taken into context. We cannot de convert 7 billion people, so "bravery" is also knowing who to take on and who just merely makes claims you roll your eyes to. I think the best our species can do is keep religion on a leash, not by oppression, but by keeping government neutral.

I think we have no choice but to be brave collectively when it comes to defending science and education ESPECIALLY, but also challenging pulpit politics which causes division within a country and globally as well. Those are things we cannot ignore.

But I was a "coward" to because of the deep seeded societal indoctrination that "you just believed". So when I first tested the atheist waters on the net, I needlessly feared that I might be lead into a evil cult. And I also feared challenging theists in debate, because back then, I didn't know shit as compared to today.

But I do not fear debate anymore, there is nothing that any theists can argue that will shake me.

Hello, Oh Brian, It is not good to be a criminal. it is very evil. But it is the atheist way. So the more consistent an atheist is, the more of a criminal they are, which will cause them to be arrested, and hopefully put in prison. But consistently is a sign that you adhere to the soundness of your path.

Mr. Coward, you are religious. You are a selfish bastard and you worship yourself. The Humanists say they're religious, but i know you're not humanist, you just do every single thing and believe in every way they do. The atheist denominatin of humanism says this and you say that.

There are so many atheist denominations you atheists don't know how to be an atheist anymore .

May i say to the last guy that perhaps He becamse an atheist because he never saw what a Christina looks like. Chrisitanity is not a bunch of people who kiss puppies and slide down rainbows. I'm afraid many fake chrisitans are this way and thus the atheist population increase.

Perhaps if you would have read your Bible and studied it like you were suppose to you would not have slid down to foolishness and stupidity of your atheistic religion of hate and christianophoia.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

I wouldn't worry too much about Jean. Initially he did piss me off, and I most certainly loath him as an individual, but just keep reminding idiots like him that he worships his interpretation of a god as being a hostage taker willing to put a gun to a third party's head to threaten the rest of us. That is what he has claimed his god does.

I am glad most theists in the west realize that they live under governments that do not tolerate violence in the name of religion.

Just let him make an ass of himself, he does that well without help.

As someone who has offended a co-worker by making a disparaging comment about water-dowsing and experienced the unexpected discomfort of having a nurse practitioner tell me, after I had survived something I wouldn't have survived had I suffered more damage than the efforts of doctors could repair, that "God must have a plan for you" I share your frustration of living among believers in magic. I understand why you feel that you are not holding true to your beliefs (or lack thereof) if you don't contradict every opposing view. However it is just a self-manufactured mental trap not unlike the one I create for myself whenever I'm tempted to type OMG or respond traditionally to a sneeze.  Unless you have the opportunity to affect change (i.e. vote on a proposition) or save a life (i.e. ummm...prevent a lynching?) you are under no obligation to take a stand and deserve no accusation of cowardice.