Accept Jesus, Get A Server
Offline Subject line says it all. The Rational Response Squad needs to recruit more Christians so they can get a new server.
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
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Offline This is an Atheist website, I expect nothing less.
This discussion has nothing to do with the veracity of atheism, and STILL noone agrees with you. Not even a theist.
Perhaps you're unaware that arguments like these can neither be won nor lost
If you really believed that we wouldn't be having this...conversation.
Some of the posters here understand that arguing about whether or not, for example, the actions of James in Acts amounts to "excommunication", is pointless, except to show that (perhaps) Paul's status within the Church was not as great as modern Christians have been led to believe.
Irrelevant. No religion has a shred of validity to it. Very little religious "history" has anything to do with reality or history. Whatever the liars who wrote scripture came up with and whenever it happened has little or nothing to do with what actually happened and when. Discussing the false history theists designed is pointless.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
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Offline LOL @ jews are a race. Proven false. Therefore racism is not applicable. But you're a whiner with an inferiority complex who projects her ignorance, arrogance, and stupidity onto others. Probably thinking otherwise makes you feel better about yourself, but we see right through you.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
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Offline Do you want to stand up for people who tossed children into the mouth of their false god so they could burn to a crisp, and a slew of other major crimes against humanity.
i'd like to see any clear evidence of these "crimes" outside of the hebrew bible account. you'll have to excuse me if i rarely trust the record of the victors.
i also think it's funny that god was so pissed off about what these people allegedly did that their children and farm animals had to die for it too.
in fact, let's back up a bit: the israelites had to kill aaaall these people--men, women, and children--because their crime was...sacrificing their children. so god had to...kill children...to keep children...from being killed.
...uh-huh...
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
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Offline FurryCatHerder wrote:Do you want to stand up for people who tossed children into the mouth of their false god so they could burn to a crisp, and a slew of other major crimes against humanity.
i'd like to see any clear evidence of these "crimes" outside of the hebrew bible account. you'll have to excuse me if i rarely trust the record of the victors.
That goes both ways -- there's no evidence we even did the crimes. Which sort of puts the ball back in your court -- we admit to killing people who were intrinsically evil, and you want evidence they were evil, but don't want evidence (beyond our saying we did it ...) that we even committed this "crime" in the first place.
i also think it's funny that god was so pissed off about what these people allegedly did that their children and farm animals had to die for it too.in fact, let's back up a bit: the israelites had to kill aaaall these people--men, women, and children--because their crime was...sacrificing their children. so god had to...kill children...to keep children...from being killed.
You need to ask for a refund for that Jew-ology degree you got. Seriously. You were ripped off.
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
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Offline Quote:i also think it's funny that god was so pissed off about what these people allegedly did that their children and farm animals had to die for it too.in fact, let's back up a bit: the israelites had to kill aaaall these people--men, women, and children--because their crime was...sacrificing their children. so god had to...kill children...to keep children...from being killed.
You need to ask for a refund for that Jew-ology degree you got. Seriously. You were ripped off.
So Furry, are you saying that your ancestors didn't actually kill men, women, children, and farm animals to satisfy your G-d's filthy requirements ? You know gen-o-cide.
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Offline FurryCatHerder wrote:Quote:i also think it's funny that god was so pissed off about what these people allegedly did that their children and farm animals had to die for it too.in fact, let's back up a bit: the israelites had to kill aaaall these people--men, women, and children--because their crime was...sacrificing their children. so god had to...kill children...to keep children...from being killed.
You need to ask for a refund for that Jew-ology degree you got. Seriously. You were ripped off.
So Furry, are you saying that your ancestors didn't actually kill men, women, children, and farm animals to satisfy your G-d's filthy requirements ? You know gen-o-cide.
No, I'm saying that IBEWBORK can't cherry-pick. Either we killed them because they were a degenerate nation that preyed on innocent people, and raised their children to prey on innocent people, or we didn't kill them because there's no proof we did. IBEWBORK can't decide which parts of the story are true, and which parts of the story are false.
Especially since there is no independent historical evidence anyone was even killed in the first place ...
The world wasn't a happy-fun-land place 3,000 years ago. Judging the actions of people 3,000 years ago by today's moral standards is pretty intellectually dishonest.
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
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Offline in fact, let's back up a bit: the israelites had to kill aaaall these people--men, women, and children--because their crime was...sacrificing their children. so god had to...kill children...to keep children...from being killed.
...uh-huh...
Remember iwbiek, it's a Jewish thing....you wouldn't understand.
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Especially since there is no independent historical evidence anyone was even killed in the first place ...
The world wasn't a happy-fun-land place 3,000 years ago. Judging the actions of people 3,000 years ago by today's moral standards is pretty intellectually dishonest.
Okay, but if it did happen and your ancestors really were such people as described in your bible, then you're okay with it morally because, you know.....they really deserved it ?
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Offline That goes both ways -- there's no evidence we even did the crimes.
well, for you there is, since you accept the bible as truth.
You need to ask for a refund for that Jew-ology degree you got. Seriously. You were ripped off.
you're probably right. they encouraged critical thinking way too much.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
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Offline FurryCatHerder wrote:That goes both ways -- there's no evidence we even did the crimes.
well, for you there is, since you accept the bible as truth.
Yup, and I accept that these were nations that had become so degenerated that there was simply no other way to stop what they were doing to us and others.
Remember -- the Phillistines had been raiding Egypt for YEARS before Ramses III pushed them out. That didn't stop their behavior. So, we and a few others finished them off. I don't lose any sleep over it.
As you're well aware, from your Jew-ology studies, there were cultures which saw absolutely nothing wrong with robbing, killing, raping, plundering, etc. whomever they could get their hands on. A bit like Spanish Conquistadors of the now-failed Spanish Empire. If your Jew-ology degree was worth a damn, you know that G-d destroyed S'dom because they were, more or less, an entire city-state of highway robbers. You should also know, from your Jew-ology degree, that the level to which the people of S'dom had degenerated included Lot's daughters, whose boyfriends were killed by G-d, getting their father drunk so the could get pregnant by him, thereby giving rise to the Moabites ...
There's only so many times a nation can defend itself from another nation before "wipe them all out" is about the only alternative. The good news is that political leaders seem to have learned that losing over and over again, generation after generation, is a bad idea. They also seem to have learned that it can be rather difficult to maintain a despotic regime for more than a few generations because sooner or late the people =do= rise up.
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
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Offline As you're well aware, from your Jew-ology studies, there were cultures which saw absolutely nothing wrong with robbing, killing, raping, plundering, etc. whomever they could get their hands on.
Yes, they were called Israelites and they had the ethics of Vikings when it came to killing innocent people and taking their property away from them.
Numbers 31:9 "And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their cattle, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods."
That's really just a small sampling but if you're really interested it's not hard to find, your Bible is just full of this shit.
If your Jew-ology degree was worth a damn, you know that G-d destroyed S'dom because they were, more or less, an entire city-state of highway robbers.
You're leaving out G-d's homophobic tendencies in dealing with Sodomites. Why is that ? Seriously, why the omission ? I don't have a degree in Jew-ology but I do know your ancestors had very little tolerance for anything they considered to be sexual "aberrations".
Behold Furry, your G-d speaks !!!
....Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they surely must be put to death, their blood is upon them."
Okay Furry, this is where you come in and obfuscate with all your special Jewish insights that are so beyond us non Jews. Please tell us why God isn't a homophobe because y'know we never get tired of your straight shooting style of apologetics....we all love for you to confound and baffle us with your esoteric knowledge. Please enlighten us because you're the expert.
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Ah, your true identity is revealed. A 16 year old self serving valley girl. No big surprise there.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Like, I'm so SHURE your gaming GOD-NESS is so =totally= cool and pimple-faced!
Try explaining, with some degree of specificity, what you meant by your original claims that you're such a poor and persecute and unable to hang out in cyber-space bunch of people.
Because your claims are facially false. And being ignorant about what was or wasn't on the Internet, or being discussed all throughout Europe and North America 300+ years ago doesn't make it true. It just serves as further confirmation that you're ignorant.
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
no shit, which is why i said it was a false analogy to compare it with being a geologist.
i have not lived judaism. i am not a jew. however, by virtue of my studying i am more competent to talk about the history of judaism and jewish thought than many jews are. the "half of the picture" i don't "get" is that i didn't physically step on a glass at my wedding, i'm not circumcised, i never canted, i don't light hanukkah candles, i eat pork, etc., etc. that's ok. lacking those things does not hinder my ability to grasp isaac luria, rashi, and adin steinsaltz.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
no, you're not. you're people, period. you are nothing more special or set apart than anyone else.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
It was a play on words.
But apparently you've not actually read and comprehended Rashi. See B'reshit, somewhere in the second chapter, if memory serves correctly.
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
A truly yawn-worthy response. It is far too late to feign interest in what I was saying. You should have attempted it sooner. I probably would have obliged. But you just started trolling and making a fool of yourself to such a degree as to get a shiny badge describing your activity. Congrats!
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
My son, his girlfriend, and many of my closest friends are Atheists. Would you =please= become a Southern Baptist or something? You really are a sad excuse for a human being and it would be better if you had once less thing in common with people I care about.
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
Your opinion is irrelevant. You'll notice noone is agreeing with anything you've said, and you're being owned on multiple fronts by multiple posters. Of course you're delusional and believe you're actually defeating arguments, but that's where our amusement comes in.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
and heeeeere we go again. it always comes back round to this ridiculous kind of obfuscation with you.
listen, just because i'm familiar with these writers to one degree or another, doesn't mean i consider them somehow wiser than the rest of us. i'd be just as apt to trust what my construction worker neighbor says as what rashi said.
just because rashi says you are or aren't something doesn't make it so. yes, i know what "people of the book" means: nothing, when you get right down to it. it means you identify yourselves with a collection of texts about desert nomads and petty buffer states, to which you trace yourselves through a mythical family linkage (if there ever were ancient hebrews, there's probably precious little or none of their DNA in most modern jews, especially ashkenazim), and you claim these texts are still "living" by overlaying them with centuries of commentators, and commentators on the commentators, until their original meaning has been chewed beyond recognition.
then, ironically, you bitch at the christians for doing the same thing. honestly, if any group has truly preserved the integrity of the pentateuch, it's the samaritans.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
This is an Atheist website, I expect nothing less.
Perhaps you're unaware that arguments like these can neither be won nor lost, which is why you =really= need to become a Southern Baptist. Some of the posters here understand that arguing about whether or not, for example, the actions of James in Acts amounts to "excommunication", is pointless, except to show that (perhaps) Paul's status within the Church was not as great as modern Christians have been led to believe.
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
And there you have it -- the final "value" of your religious education: Nothing.
Rashi's commentary on which people are better than which other people is that because we all come from the same parents, no one can say "My parents are better than yours". This same concept exists within Islam, though I'm not as well versed with the sources, and besides, we're discussing Rashi.
Your "chewed beyond recognition" is both ignorant and dishonest. First, Rashi is no more an authority -- like, "we now follow Rashi, not Moses or G-d" -- than the cats that come begging for food most every morning. Nor is the Talmud the authority, like we follow Adin Steinsaltz and not Rashi, Moses or G-d. Nor have we replaced Sifrei Torah on Mondays, Thursdays and Shabbat with Daf Yomi -- the practice of dividing the Torah into "one parsha per week" might be an "invention" (no, it is an "invention", there is no "might be" about it), but it's still the Torah, not Rambam, not Rashi, not Adin Steinsaltz, the Jerusalem or Babylonian Talmuds, the Mishnah or whatever. Whether you believe the Torah was fabricated by Ezra, people after Ezra, or actually made it out of the desert with Joshuah, that's still what we use.
As for any remaining DNA, as a "people", based on scientific analysis, our closest living relatives are Palestinian Arabs, then other Arabs. And that most certainly =is= a scientific fact. No religious texts required. And it applies to Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and in some cases, groups of people with claim to be "members of some lost tribe".
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
not quite. it gives me the ability to recognize bullshit artists in my fie.
a. your "people's" relationship to palestinian arabs proves neither the existence of the biblical hebrews, nor your "people's" connection to them.
b. i would reeeeaaally like you to link me to that study, so i can see where they took their sample groups from, how they drew their conclusions, etc. if you furnish me the link, or give me the title of the book or journal, i promise i'll read it. but i'm not holding my breath, since you won't even pinpoint bible verses for me.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I seriously don't get your logic here. The Arab peoples haven't been dispersed to anywhere near the extent that Jews have. That Jews share genetic markers most closely with Palestinian Arabs, then next with non-Palestinian Arabs, means we come from there. Really.
I =really= need to be working on a batch of PCBs, so if you don't like the short list of pointers, I'll see about getting you some more. But have a short list --
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews
http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/?tool=pubmed
Insha'allah, I'll have more time later. But seriously, I have two weeks of business travel coming up, and getting work done today is important. Feel free to start a new thread if you'd like to discuss this as a separate topic from our usual round of whacking each other. You're smart. I like you. I just have a business to run ...
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."
Interesting Furry. You seem to be very obsessed with the racial pedigree of the The Chosen People. Your posts continually show an inordinate enthusiasm for genetics as it relates to your own ethnicity. Your cultural mindset even expresses insiders ( Jews ) and outsiders ( Goyim ) with convenient terms that identify your racial priorities. Very revealing.
Even more noteworthy is your admitted support for the use of genocide ( you'd willingly "put me up againt the wall" ) remember ? Kill'em All, Let G-d Sort'em Out ! It's interesting to see that you are so morally uninhibited.
So, to summarize your position is encompassed by embracing matters of racial purity combined with the acceptance of genocide as a valid tactic. Wow. That is truly astounding.
Oh, btw, how do you translate "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher" into Hebrew ?
There are no "insiders" and "outsiders" in Judaism. All people are created "B'tzelem Elokim", in the image of G-d.
But since you have this thing for being a stark raving mad anti-Semite, here's one for you --
A "righteous Gentile" has the same or higher standing, within Judaism, than the Kohen Gadol, the High Priest. I know this comes as a surprise, but before I ran back to the religion of my ancestors, =technically= I was "better" than after I did the whole "Jew Thing."
The mistaken notion is that Jews are "chosen" in a =good= way. Like, being a Jew makes us better. It doesn't. It's like being the teachers pet -- you get held to a higher standard of conduct and when you fail, G-d smacks the crap out of you. But if you're all that jealous of us "Chosen People", feel free to join us. You too can be "chosen"! Somehow, every time I make this offer no one takes me up on it. I guess you actually know that this "Chosen" thing ain't such a good deal.
And "Goyim"? It means "people". Jews are also "goyim".
Second word (right to left) -- G-d is saying we're going to be a "Goy Gadol", a great nation. That's Genesis 12:2, if you'd like to look it up in English, though I recommend sticking with the Hebrew. Fewer opportunities for you to lie about "goyim".
[qupte]Even more noteworthy is your admitted support for the use of genocide ( you'd willingly "put me up againt the wall" ) remember ? Kill'em All, Let G-d Sort'em Out ! It's interesting to see that you are so morally uninhibited.
Genocide? Not unless an entire people were evil beyond redemption, which are the only instances of G-d saying "Go kill all of them." Do you want to stand up for people who tossed children into the mouth of their false god so they could burn to a crisp, and a slew of other major crimes against humanity.
The Phillistines, who we also wiped out, weren't much better -- they liked to launch raiding parties on whomever they could plunder, steal whatever they could steal, then kill whomever they could kill. Ramses (not sure which one) shoved them out of Egypt and into modern day Gaza. We proceeded to kill them because they persisted in their attacks. Are you also going to stand up for a people who made an entire culture out of attacking others and killing innocent men, women and children? Is that an example of Atheist Morality?
And you're intellectually dishonest, ignorant =and= racist.
You might want to bone up on Godwin's Law.
"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."