I'm leaving the "atheist movement". My hearfelt sympathies to Rich Woods and others who may feel the same.
Offline Dear friends,
At first the atheist groups were for me quite fun and entertaining. All the good stuff of bashing the supernatural and sticking it to the fundies. Dawkins, Dennet, Hitchens, Harris and Ali are still icons for me. But now I find that atheist groups are devolving into extremist ideological camps that do not tolerate dissent. The expulsion of Thunderf00t from FreeThought Blogs is a good example.
I'll be blunt. There is a disproportionate amount of time and energy dedicated to the extremist fringes of social justice. I consider myself socially liberal and wholeheartedly agree with the general principles of human equality and I feel I'm preaching to the choir on this with the majority of atheists. But I absolutely refuse to acknowledge that atheism must be hamstrung by some specific ideology even if it champions social justice. When atheist groups latch on to extremist dogma, then there is no place for me among them. I'll give you an example.
Some time back on a skeptic blog it was stated that we should boycott any meeting or group where the panel is made of soley white males. We are asked to disregard the fact that these individuals on the panel are experts in their fields and have something interesting to say. Indeed, it is mandated that the panel and the audience must be at least 50% women and there should be some representation of other marginalized groups ie. African Americans, Latinos, LGBT, etc. Furthermore the topics at hand need to acknowledge these sociologic factors even if the topic is the Higgs-Boson particle discovery. I don't conform to this sort of ideological stupidity.
I am dark skinned and of Indian origin and I recently went to a Roger Waters concert ie. The Wall. I thoroughly enjoyed it and guess what? 90% of the audience were white males. What these self-defined social justice atheist nuts recommend I do is shun the progressive social justice message that Roger Waters preaches and instead boycott the concert because of lack of diversity. The irony is so fucked up. In the name of social justice, I should boycott a singer who champions social justice because there weren't enough women or blacks in the audience. Well fuck off!!!
I can go on about several other issues that relate to what I see as a radical feminist hijacking of atheist groups. It is the endless and annoying diatribes of how oppressed they are from the evil "patriarchy" and "privilege" that has led to a lot of self-reflection. I really don't belong with this crowd. And by the way, they take great orgasmic pleasures in pointing out the privilege of others as they mount and fuck their moral high horses but are never self-critical of their own privilege.
And these fucktards are now dominating the atheist blogosphere with anecdotes of alleged sexual harrassment because a couple hands a card to a speaker to invite her for group sex. Or there will be threads about whether a movie like "Brave" is feminist enough. What the fuck does that have to do with atheism or skepticism let alone the price of cheese? And if you come across even in the slightest way as being contrarian, you will be regarded as a troll and banished like Thunderf00t. And yes there are scores of lobotomized men on these forums who slavishly agree with them like the poor sheep in Animal Farm ie. "four legs gooood, two legs baaaaaad".
Folks, the atheist groups are headed in a downward spiral because of whiny brats that champion victimhood and reject personal individual freedom and civil liberties. We are not going to be united in securing our freedoms in a rational secular society. Instead we are going to caged and gagged by repressed harpies who hyperinflate "Go Daddy" ads as a patriarchical Super Bowl plot to oppress women. Guys like Thunderf00t who has done an exemplary job in promoting atheism and reason should have never been booted off simply because he has a different opinion regarding sexual harrassment at atheist conferences.
Thus far Rational Responders seems to be immune to this and thankfully, I'll still be occasionally writing posts on this site. And don't worry. I'm still an unbeliever but I won't be cavorting with fellow unbelievers who reject one form of fundamentalism in favor of another.
Cheers
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It is a strong human trait that demands group mentality. You have to all look the same, dress the same, walk the same, talk the same and think the same. That its why I left christianity. I don't belong to any group anymore so I don't have the drop out of anything.
I like both thunderf00t and pz myers, but I never felt I was in their group anymore than I felt I was the 6th Beatle or the 12th football player on the field for the Redskins. I appreciate them but I am never them.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
I sympathise with you. I'm quite glad it hasn't touched the RRS much.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
yeah, i think RRS has the reputation of the forum you drive through with your windows rolled up, your doors locked, never stopping for any reason and never looking ANYONE in the eye.
i suspect most insane ideologists don't come here for the same reason they would never set up a soapbox in spanish harlem. id just ain't wurf it.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Ragdish I agree with you 100% . Let's hope that more freedom loving and independent types of people will emerge with the atheist movement. I too, would not want to swap one type of fundamentalism for another.
I am proud to be an Atheist. But, I agree with some of the recent observations of Rich Woods and you about some things that seem to be going on in the community.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
There is a reason why I am fairly active here but ignore most of the rest of the atheist forums. Many of the atheists who become politically active I believe are of the same breed of the environmental activists, feminists, racial activists etc. of the far left where their actual goal has little to do with actually promoting equality and will quickly throw the supposed victims they claim to want to help under the bus to further the progressive agenda or their own power. While there are plenty of members in these groups that are simply looking for equality, the leaders are generally people looking for power, money and/or attention. They essentially become our equivalent of televangelists.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Stick around, you are merely experiencing the effects of a civilized society. Civilization is based on animal concepts. It forms it's members to specification and regulates to minimize negative effects, mainly the killing of each other. It kanives one into being predator but sets rules on how and how much one can be a predator. Don't be disheartened-help is neigh.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Yes. +1
I second that Beyond.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Here! Here! Buy a badge on your way out!
I've been posting here for years and have not seen one post by you until this day.
Um can you provide specific examples in your personal experience of "atheist extremists"? My only problem with SOME atheists are the same I have with liberal PC theists who think we should never blaspheme others. But other than that I don't know of any group or website of atheists that advocates violence or advocates government oppression of dissent.
My experience with the word "extremist" in regards to others using it about atheists, are that they are simply AND FALSELY equating blasphemy and ridicule to hate. One can hate a claim, without hating everything about the person making that claim. Most atheists I know and most organizations who promote atheism, know that distinction and are WILLING to get along with others. But getting along should not be about the expectation of walking on eggshells for others because you might offend them.
Maybe you are just tired of the fight. But the fight is needed, and the atheists doing it are not just doing it for atheists. We are doing it just like the world had to face the truth of what Galileo told about the nature of the earth and sun. Sometimes the truth hurts, but when you face it, you are better off.
And to invoke Hitchens, who wrote a book called "God Is Not Great, How Religion Poisons Everything", was called an extremist, and all the horsemen were for that matter.
You still value him but to even PC atheists would call him an "extreme atheist" whom even equated heaven to a "Celestial North Korea". I never considered him extreme. I considered him blunt, not violent or calling for violence, just someone saying "HEY BELIEVERS, THIS IS THE GOD YOU BELIEVE IN, ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN CLAIM".
So I am a bit miffed as to what anyone theist or atheist would say about any individual or atheist group when using the word "extremist".
And as far as Roger Waters and concerts, please tell me what the fuck this has to do with this issue? I am sure if I being white attended rap concerts, I would be the minority? Still fail to see what this has to do with "extreme atheists".
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
That is because you cannot separate Ayn Rand from your brain. "Extreme" is a often the false slur aimed at those trying to make change.
Economics has NOTHING to do with atheism. And I regard all PC crap bad, regardless if it is coming from a theist or atheist. BUT the same thing applies to economics. I think what you don't like is that ECONOMICALLY speaking most atheist lean left, INCLUDING ME.
And who is our "evangelist". For someone who loves money, Hitchens and Dawkins especially made a mint selling their books.
"Equality" to you is "sink or swim". And if money equals power money will always sink those who are not equal, which is why anti monopoly and anti trust laws are a concept to give the smaller guy a fighting chance.
So don't make sweeping generalizations about atheists. I don't speak for you, but you do not speak for me either. The only thing we have in common is a lack of belief.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
then you're a fucking blind tard, because i've been reading his thoughtful posts for "years" myself.
were your folks from the chernobyl area by any chance?
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Hi Opie!
My shock face:
All consistent liberals are atheistic and communistic like Mao.
Respectfully,
Jean CHauvin (Jude 3).
A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.
Respectfully,
Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).
I've been fighting dogmatic atheists for years now. It's not easy, but it's almost as important as arguing the religious. Instead of giving up, why not add arguing with dogmatic atheists to your arsenal of good deeds for humanity?
I agree with you, and lots of other rational folks would. You should speak up about this rather than let the atheist fundies silence you.
The militant atheist feminists are a distraction from our movement. Stick around here and speak up on these issues, I'd probably agree with every word.
This site will not head down that road, but if you leave, you'll play a small role in allowing it to. Please stick around.
:whew:
Vote for Democrats to save us all from the anti-American Republican party!
Please become a Patron of Brian Sapient
that may or may not be, but usually consistent anything, be it christian, marxist, republican, book-of-the-month club member, etc., equals batshit fucking crazy.
show me a human who is not protean and i'll show you hitler, torquemada, bin laden, bokassa, or perhaps even jean chauvin. if he ever becomes truly consistent, that is. for a bundle of five aggregates, that is not easy. even i understand that.
you poor devil attached to the scriptures, when will you learn that wiser words were never spoken than "if you meet the buddha on the road, kill him"? when will you cease being a dumb stone, thinking it is crying out?
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
If you're still going to post here then why bother announcing you're not going to post somewhere else, just so you can complain about how liberal they are? I'm ultra-liberal maybe I should go read that forum instead.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
Perhaps he announced it because he wanted to make a point ?
Well, no one's stopping you.
Fuck you, atheist idiot.
Maybe he wanted to make a point that he got his ass handed to him over there.
No one is stopping me from going to freethought forum and telling them I won't post here anymore because the people aren't liberal enough for me, so I can have a circle jerk with them but I probably wouldn't do it anyway.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
Wow, some of you progressives can really get worked up. I thought you guys were all about tolerance.
Stay, leave, whatever turns you on.
My my, what an intellectually and well articulated argument. Did you learn that from the Skeptic's Horseshit Bible or the Pathway Machine ?
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
no, fuck you, you reactionary cunt, and the dry cooze that bore you.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Perhaps they spent time in Hiroshima? He seems to take exception to the idea of coming from Ukraine.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Don't a group of Atheists expect kinda the same.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
As you can tell by some of the discussions on here that touch upon politics and science, a "group" of Atheists can not all agree on the same thing.
There is no Atheist creed, Atheist code or Atheist prayer.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
No we don't. Unlike other labels most of us see ourselves as INDIVIDUALS, something political and religious dogmatists dont do.
The only thing we have in common is a lack of belief in god/s. Other than that we are as politically and economically diverse. I am dirt poor and HATE Beyond Saving(a business owner) economic views, NOT as much as he might think, but just because we both hate invisible friend claims, does not mean we agree on everything else.
Belonging to ANY group simply because of an idea is stupid. While socializing is a normal factor of evolution and we DO seek like minded people. Making the idea the primary goal instead of our common human condition WHILE accepting we EVEN IN THE SAME LABEL, will have clubs, but wont always agree EVEN IN THOSE CLUBS, is where our species fucks up.
So no, atheists DO NOT expect the same thing, but no human should on a planet of 7 billion. We are humans FIRST, we are the same species FIRST.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I would say that many atheist groups do expect the same, hence, Ragdish's OP. The great thing about this particular forum is that no one here does, despite the communistic/socialist/leftist rhetoric of many this forum is rather libertarian/anarchist in practice, people come and go on their own volition and no member is protected from scathing attacks on their views, even Sapient.
See Brian, anarchy works great Exhibit A www.rationalresponders.com
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Is_Wikipedia_an_experiment_in_anarchy
Yea but Brian from a legal standpoint does NOT legally have to allow anyone to post here. Something a business owner like you can appreciate. BUT, he allows it as an ETHIC, by sticking to very simplistic rules that a neutral media SHOULD have. Now he like everyone has their limits. But out of all the websites I have been on, this one bends over backwards even for those we despise, IE JEAN.
What is "anarchist" about this website? It has booted people all be it rarely, and it has reported illegal acts to authorities. I don't think you or I or our detractors, much less Brian Sapient, want our society to be lawless.
Maybe you are just joking with me here and I am taking you too seriously. But I promise you when us liberal commies take over, I will tell your new overlord masters to take it easy on you. I do like you.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Legally, sites like Freerthought blogs can do what they please. They can ban whomever they please but then it's no longer a free thought blog. Social justice is noble and darkies like me would have no rights were it not for the tireless work of civil rights activists. But like religion, social justice deserves the same skeptical analysis. I find that terms like "privilege" and "patriarchy" are used to excuse certain groups from personal responsibility and usually leads to moral contradictions not too dissimilar from religion.
For example, I engaged in a discussion with a feminist over women who wear revealing clothes such a string bikini. She and I agreed that a woman should have freedom to wear what she pleases in a free society be it a burka or bikini. She supports that woman's right to choose. However, here's the catch. When viewing the world through a feminist lens, the only reason a woman chooses to wear a string bikini is that her sexual narrative has been negatively conditioned by a patriarchical society. And forbidding her from wearing sexy clothes is also patriarchical oppression. Indeed, women are constantly being bombarded from birth the negative patriarchical conditioning. And what if that bikini clad woman gets into med school and becomes a Neurosurgeon? Or what if she has an abortion? Well in those circumstances the patriarchy vanishes and the woman has made truly free choices after being liberated by feminism. If I choose to debate or voice any skepticism, I would be labelled a misogynist. Now mind you, not all feminists think this way. Many like me see the world rationally and uphold individual freedom and personal civil liberties. Unfortunately they are labelled as traitors In the eyes of radical feminists. And it is saddening that a lot of atheists/skeptic blogs are preaching all this contradictory nonsense. They make twits like Jean Chauvin look like geniuses.
Why are you making this a label issue? If you are really against WHATEVER(insert issue here)to do nothing is to insure failure.
I don't think long term there is any danger of fascism arising by ANY label as long as our society is vigilant. Humans will always say and believe stupid shit. But you are sure to have it spread more if you don't fight.
I often get down on newbie atheist who say "what is the use, things are not going to change". I ask "In what sense", in the sense that we cant force 7 billion people to be atheists? NO we cant. But to say nothing has improved as far as our movement is false. Back in 01 atheists were seen as the radical fringe of society, and we had very little media representation.
Now we have google news stories out every day all over the western world EVERY SINGLE DAY. And even a new show on MSNBC has an atheist as a panalist, something that would have been unheard of back then. Not to mention all the best selling atheist authors, and the explosion of atheist websites.
So if the issue is PC for you, then make it about ANYONE atheist or theist pushing PC. I would agree with you on that. But I have brought the PC issue up at other websites and I have not been banned. One of the things I often point out to the PC types is to be careful what you wish for being an atheist in a theist dominated society.
You are never going to create a world utopia that suites you, we have and always will be a diverse species. But if you stop fighting, you allow your detractors more room to spread what you disagree with.
The difference between change and stagnation is the amount of silence on the part of those who want change.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Rag, the truth of the matter is that the price of living in an open society is that if scrutiny is valued, then it also has to be protected by allowing the absurd to be claimed. People have the right to claim whatever they want, that is a human rights issue. But equally important is the right to challenge ANY claim on any issue.
This applies to ANYTHING, not just PC and not just feminists. This applies to politics and economic views as well, otherwise without that ability to put sunlight on a claim, we just get into tribal dominance mentalities that serve not to solve issues, but define us by our differences.
The most recent example I can think of is Rush's sick comment about calling a women a slut because she valued women's health care rights in birth control. Now, WITHOUT A DOUBT, Rush had every legal right to say what he did. But when there is not only no truth to the statement of her being a slut, his opposition ALSO had the right to get right back in his face and challenge his bullshit claim. Rush put himself in that position, no one forced him to use that word. He is a big boy and knew what he was doing, he took a gamble with that and lost. But he is not going to end up eating cat food because of his own stupidity. He merely got knocked down a couple notches. Getting knocked of your "holier than thow" perch is not demanding your arrest, it is merely treating a bully like a bully and what he did was the act of a bully.
Rag, this movement needs you. And while some in the atheist community can be uber PC it is up to you and those who value the right to offend, to remind other atheists that if you are willing to offend god claims, then being offended yourself by what others say, cannot be considered a crime. If you are not around to challenge PC theists and atheists you give them the billboard free of the scrutiny you want it to have. So you have to stay and fight.
Where I do agree with you is that there have been SOME absurd extremes, I don't see those as a majority hijacking our movement like you might see.
The case where the person wanted the word "nigger" removed from the Huckleberry Finn Museum was a "WHAT THE FUCK" PC moment for me.
Even on a personal level, I have liberal co worker who is a theist, voted for Obama, but really urks me when I talk about porn or strip joints as if it should all be banned. She doesn't understand that any BAD that does exist in the sex worker industry, isn't bad because of sex, the bad stuff that DOES exist, is because of lack of consent and unregulated environments. If this person you are dealing with agrees with you that a woman has a right to wear what she wants, then she also has the right to take off her cloths for money.
I hate the fact that people cant see that force is the issue, manipulation is the issue, and sex isn't the only thing that can exploit people. Child labor without sex, in sweat shops in India and China are forms of human abuse even without sex. The coal mine monopolies of West Virgina back in the 60s and 70s where a form of legalized slavery and a form of abuse.
So when you deal with feminists, I'd tell them the issue isn't the right to do with their bodies what they want, if you both agree, the issue is abuse and the abuse shouldn't matter if it is abuse it is abuse, involving sex or not.
So when she objects to it I simply say, "If you want control over your own body, and I agree, then don't project yourself on other women yourself".
I love looking at naked women, why should I lie about that? And why should any woman who does it consensually in a safe regulated environment be ashamed? And with porn, if one is going to claim women are exploited, they forget that men are in it too, so if they aren't buying into the sexist crap, then they cant be hypocrites and say only women are being exploited.
As far as any issue regarding state of dress, nudity or even porn, CONSENT and safety are a good goal. But to say it should never happen is absurd.
Rag, I know I am rambling, but I guess ultimately I am saying one of the most important thing we atheists do, even when we disagree IE Beyond and I, for example, is show that in reality we really are individuals. Without those different voices in our ranks we allow the stereotypes to fester which we cannot afford. I am glad Beyond is here, not because I agree with him on economics, but because theists can see that even we have our economic conservatives which humanizes us to theists more because they see is as humans more.
And when you object to PC stuff, like I do too, that appeals to some on the right who might agree with us that the left is too PC sometimes. Another example of humanizing ourselves through showing our diversity. That cannot happen if you stay silent.
Our diversity as Atheists is our strength and if you read my sig, that is true for our species as well. Not because god claims are true, but because that sig is a demonstration that civility is better obtained through pluralism and maintained better through pluralism, EVEN when we disagree. What better way to shoot down theists stereotypes of us all being clones of each other than to have those public disagreements?
Stay and put up your fight, be yourself. Atheists are no different than theists in that ultimately we still are all individuals.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog