God loves the evil ones more than the good because he is the greatest sinner.
Offline God loves the evil ones more than the good because he is the greatest sinner.
This love of sinners is the hinge pin on which his benevolent qualities depend and without evil and sin, God could never expressed his benevolence and we would never know of God’s mercy, forgiveness, compassion and all his other positive attributes. Love, like faith, can only be expressed by actions and for God to show his love of sinners and his other positive attributes, evil, sin and sinners must exist to receive this love.
Before the earth was formed, God planned to have Jesus sacrificed, murdered in fact, for those of us who are sinners. That is all of us. Jesus’ sacrifice was to be God’s example of the greatest evil and sin from the point of view of all who are wise. It shows our greatest loss and evil if we were to do as God did. Those of us who are evil without knowing good will try to profit from this greatest evil. We are to venerate life. Not take it or try to profit from its death. Though shalt not kill or try to profit from it.
As above so below.
The fact that God created evil and sin is a given. He created all that is to those who believe he exists. He decides what is evil or not and therefore sets this as our standard. It is a human standard. God is man.
Have you forgotten that you are to be a God by emulating your heavenly father?
Sin by the thought of having your child killed or profiting from someone else’s doing so and repent as God did.
All fathers or parent will know that the greatest evil he can experience is to have his children die before he does. Having them killed is the greatest sin that any entity can do. Including God himself. As the Alpha, God knew he had to do this to also be the Omega. That is a part of the full standard of good and evil as declared by God as the law maker.
This shows that he loves sinners more than those of us who are supposedly good. Think of the prodigal son myth here. Those who know their evil ways will know this. Those who do not will think they are good and will accept this greatest evil for their salvation. A completely immoral act by all moral standards as set by God and man.
http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/
God planned to have Adam and Eve expelled from the Garden of Eden and placed his beloved Satan near the tree of knowledge to insure that mankind ate of it. To make sure of this, God gave Satan the power to deceive all of us including Adam and Eve. As history shows, his plan was a great success. Dominion over the earth was Satan’s reward and gift from God for aiding in this great success. Evil is our lord and God as shown by God’s actions. Satan is not real of course but as the personification of evil, rules us. That is scripture.
The great value of sinners is that we set the standards for the good. Without us, we would all be living in what we would call hell instead of the paradise that we have created thanks to sin and the evils we do. This maintains the perfection of all that is. This explains why God loves the sinner and hates the sin and this is also why we are rewarded with the eternal paradise of hell. Remember that fire, in the beginning, was prized as the greatest purifying force known to us. It still is. Evolution and creation began in the fires of the big bang.
Martin Luther, A Gnostic Christian and founder of the Protestant movement may, have been aware of this. He said, “Be a sinner and sin strongly, but more strongly have faith and rejoice in Christ.” In this though we must remember what Jesus said. That to think of sin is to do it and hopefully learn morals from the experience. We are to sin that way and not do the actual act. There should not be a need to do so.
I invite you to follow the bible advice ---- 1 Thessalonians. 5:21; “Test all things".
If you will only give a dogmatic kneejerk denial of this theory then please ignore this post.
Please test the logic of what I have written even as it goes against you dogma and traditional thinking. God is good but just not the God you think he is. The root of all religions is the Great Arcanum and this theory fit’s it perfectly in my opinion.
http://www.sacred-sex.org/scriptures/judaism/122-the-ark-of-the-covenant.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhKVElO8JGo&feature=related
Offsprings and their great value are the driving force of all religions. Those who would profit from the murder or sacrifice of the offspring, archetypal Jesus, are knowing evil without knowing good and are thus evil in their hearts.
Christians. Most of you are basically good. Please stop doing evil and sinning in your thoughts of profiting from God’s sacrifice and murder of his innocent son. You are missing the moral of the myth and calling evil good. This thinking will send you to hell.
Regards
DL
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considering the relative dearth of christians on this board, just for whose benefit are you posting this? you are aware of where you're posting this, right? or do you just blanket several forums with your pearls of wisdom, hoping to increase your chances of getting oohs and ahs?
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Darn. Have you guys chased all the apologists away?
If so, why are you hanging around a religion forum?
Regards
DL
since when is this a religion forum, hoss? this is an anti-religion forum. and if you look at the various areas here you'll find science and technology, news, politics, etc. on average (and i've been here more than 4 years), i'd have to wager that topics that examine religion to any serious degree make up, at best, 50% of this forum. in the old, old days of 2008 and (so i'm told) before, the number was larger. now the number might even be smaller.
why don't you try engaging some of these other areas? you might actually interact with more people.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Not my main agenda but I do stray to political issue on occasion.
BTW, this is the forum title----Atheist vs. Theist.
I look for theists.
Regards
DL
That's is of the understanding that the European God doesn't exist, (of which I agree) then how can something that doesn't exist love or hate anything. It seems floks on the forum here are stuck on the Euro idea of things and will make no consideration of anything else. Everyone that has any input not understood is a Christian. There's only two possible directions anything can be seen or interpreted. 1- from a material mindset. 2- from a spiritual mindset. As in an observation by us- there are only two things that exist in the universe, the spiritual and the material. That leaves only these two basics of seeing (mentally) or interpreting. Everyone has one, we have the other. If Atheists see from the material stand point and religions see from the same---what's the difference. You all then interpret life from the same base operating within the same fault, and then all are entangled in the same fates. One cannot solve the problem with the problem.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
Thanks for this.
Regards
DL
Good luck with that.
Needed if one tries to get Christians off of their scapegoat human sacrifice.
Regards
DL
Christian. There haven't been any Christians since about 100 AD. Christianity re-appears at an unspecified time causing the end times, specifically, ending civilization.
The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers
Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist
Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth
I thought you had a new line but see that it just mimics ancient thinking. We both know that most of that is garbage.
We may indeed go extinct but not because of your imaginary God.
Regards
DL
I never understood how God is not held to the same standards as men. If he commits genocide because of a moral wrong then it is justified, but if I were to do it i would be sent to hell. Also the morals in the bible are questionable and as morals are just a persons personal belief on what is right and wrong, then living a moral life is to live up to your own standards. Should that not be the only requirement towards living a good life.
I absolutely agree. It is a sickening double-standard, and a nonsensical appeal to authority. It also invokes special pleading that God gets to ignore the rules.
Edit: Except, I would like to clarify that I personally do not think Genocide is ever justified. Especially not when you supposedly have infinite power to avoid resorting to it.
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
Hell no.
If it were then God would be justified in what you have just condemned him for.
So would you to yourself but morals as this clip shows, is what you do to and how you treat others.
http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/
Momals are a collective standard taken up by the individuals of a community. Not an individual thing taken up be everyone because everyone would have a diferent set and from what you said, they would all be justified in the same way you tried to justify yours.
See it friend?
Regards
DL
I had no argument with him on this either but did to his other point.
See if you agree with my view of his.
Regards
DL
Greatest, I would agree that personal morals does not morality make. Just because you personally may believe that something is moral, does not make it that way.
We, as a society, have evolving morality, and it has been, and continues to be improved. There is a flexible psuedo-absolute morality in that way. An individuals morality does not get to override a Society's morality without excellent reason.
Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker
Well put. Thanks.
Regards
DL
moralsplural of mor·al (Noun)
Morals are a collective standard only because people have a tendency to agree with people on moral questions. For example, I've always questioned the morality in saving sex for marriage. It's a natural thing to have sexual desires and to suppress them seems like it could be damaging. My morals tell me that is alright, but to kill in any situation is not correct. Morals are merely people's perspective on what is right and wrong so I could have different morals then the community.
I would certainly disagree with you here. Something moral by society is certainly not the standard for whether it is right or wrong, and furthermore I feel if something is wrong we have a duty to disobey it. Civil disobedience my friend. It was moral to own people just around 100 years ago.
My ethics class said morals were personal, ethics were professional, and laws were morals codified. If you have ever taken an adult bible study class (it was over 30 years ago for me), or an ethics class (about 25 years ago), you will find out that people don't agree on morals. Even those attending the same church don't agree. It was a big surprise for me at the time. Years of observing people has only confirmed that we really don't agree very much.
There is some research by philosophers about whether there are universal morals - http://www.yourmorals.org/. I think they are indulging in confirmation bias for a number of reasons. First and foremost is they are not surveying the entire populace, only college students and professors and those who are philosophy buffs on the internet. Second, they have not done their research on social psychology. Anyway, it is an interesting web site as long as you don't take them too seriously.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
That's what I'm saying. Morals vary from person to person.
There are some who think that some aspects of morality are universal.
I tend to agree with this as a damned near universal code even as some flexibility remains within it.
http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/
Regards
DL
There are some who think that some aspects of morality are universal.
I tend to agree with this as a damned near universal code even as some flexibility remains within it.
http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/
Regards
DL
There are some who think that some aspects of morality are universal.
I tend to agree with this as a damned near universal code even as some flexibility remains within it.
http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/
Regards
DL
Yes, I know about the idea. I recommend reading:
http://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-People-Extraordinary-Evil-Beguilings/dp/0791414426/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343766457&sr=1-2...
http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Evil-Ordinary-Genocide-Killing/dp/0195314565/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343766457&sr=1-6&keywo...
I also refer you to the Stanford prison experiment.
There are many other books on the same subject. The people who commit genocide are very often ordinary people who ordinarily would not think of killing other people. The subject of possible universal morals is not as cut and dry as some would like to believe. In part, because everyone's morals have some flexibility in them. Either through semantics or through situational ethics.
I am still in the early stages of reviewing existing works on the subject.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Thanks for this. I will check them out.
Regards
DL
Well you clearly believe in God, that's a start. Or you don't even believe he exists, in which case you really don't have a leg to stand on. Your argument is against the morality of something you think is completely fictional? Either he exists, in which case he is the ultimate authority on morality, or he doesn't, in which case you might as well have a problem with Obi Wan Kenobi's morality.
No. I do not believe in bible God. I am a Gnostic Christian and the Godhead I know is accessed from within, not from without or through a particular religion.
“Your argument is against the morality of something you think is completely fictional?”
Yes. But to believers it is not and I am interpreting what they believe in order to discuss the morality of it.
Are you a believer?
How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?
Regards
DL
If I thought for a second that the Christian God was real, I'd worship Satan.
If I thought that heaven was real I'd suck up to the Christian God. I'd feel pretty guilty about it though. Not a nice bloke, that God fellow :/
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
I see someone with morals.
Nice.
Regards
DL
Then you would be surrounded by Christians with Stockholm syndrome.
Regards
DL
I couldn't do that. Why should I worship either of them? They are generally portrayed as enemies, but I've seen enough of the christian story to see that satan is just the wayward son of god who'll eventually grow up and stop being a rebellious shit. Just like everyone else is supposed to do in hell.
Way I see it, both characters are selfish, egotistical, asshole control freaks who think everything is about them. One of the two literally made it that way.
If I knew for a fact they were real, I'd simply be fucked. Neither deserves worship. Neither can be trusted. And if that weren't bad enough; the idea of eternal existence is, shall we say... worrisome, regardless of its conditions.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
My best bet would ironically be to seek immortality through science, in a universe/dimension/whateverthefuckheaven&hellare/aren't, where I can certainly exert some influence; to delay the onset of immortality in setting where my ability to exert influence on my surroundings is certainly limited, if not completely non-existent.
There's no way that sentence-paragraph would make it through a grammar nazi, but it almost looks like it could. > >
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I am with Vastet on that assessment. I wouldn't want to worship either one of them. I don't even know if science offered me a way to immortality that I would take that either.
Eternal existence is just not a very feasible idea to me. It really hasn't been since I gave up the believe in god.
I went through a brief period where reincarnation seemed attractive, then realized how redundant that notion was. What would be the point in coming back here to do this all over again because of something that you had done in a prior life ? Especially when you can not even remember the fact that you had a previous life to begin with. The whole idea jut got more ludicrous to me the more I thought about it. One of the things that drove me away from Buddhism was all this nonsense about these great "lamas" (who were really pieces of shit, when you read about them) being the incarnation of previous great teachers. What a pile of nonsense.
Kinda like a co-worker that recently got into this whole Bikram yoga thing. They loaned me his book, where he whines on and on about "selfish" Americans and how it was his "karma" to come here and teach. Yet he lives in a multi-million dollar mansion, with a garage full of Mercedes, and rubs shoulders with Hollywood elite.
Fuck all those spiritual guru frauds.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
What would a God need with worship?
Regards
DL
A good question. I can't think of any real reason for something needing worship, unless it was a meglomaniacal tyrant.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
+ 1
Regards
DL
I always liked the way gods were often portrayed in fantasy, like Dungeons and Dragons. A god requires worship to exist. The fewer followers, the less power. No followers, death of the god.
It is a remarkable metaphor for gods in real life, as it seems to work exactly the same way.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Fantasy behaving like reality. Imagine that.
One would almost think religions are a man made thing.
Believers would just not make this stuff up would they?
No $$$$$$$$$ in that is there?
Regards
DL