the award clearly goes to darth sidious.

Killed 7 people in the book of Job with the encouragement of god. That's Satan's total score for his entire biblical Tour of Duty - 7. Meanwhile, god plans to torture the vast majority of Earth's ever-human population, currently estimated at around 100 billion and rising fast. Copping out of this by protesting that it's not god doing the killing but satan who is secretly blinding the masses to irrational arguments won't wash. Nor will claims god is applying perfectly loving justice when he murders.  

If there is an objective moral standard it must state murder is always wrong, torture is always wrong, that arbitrary and eternal punishments for the dreadful crime of skepticism about truth claims based on threats instead of proofs are always wrong. If there is objective morality, then god loses on a majestic scale. Of course, this wee debate presupposes either of these characters possibly exists. They don't. Instead people are just latently willing to denigrate the out-group right up to the point of incineration. 

Spooky, isn't it. 

I always thought Al Pacino's potrayal of Satan in : "The Devil's Advocate" was one of the best arguments for why worshipping Satan would be the way to go if any of it were actually real.

Whoever wrote that must have been an Atheist.

Pacino, as always, pulled the role off quite well.

Anyone who thinks God is more evil than Satan is clearly extremely ignorant about Christianity and matters of spirituality.  Satan and his demons work nonstop to make the lives of humans miserable.  OTOH God richly blesses those who are obedient and seek righteous.   Satan is the ultimate jerk.  He works through people's minds when they are not focused on God.  Thoughts and feelings of fear, worry and depression come directly from Satan and his demons.  One of his main goals is to drive humans to the point of despair where suicide becomes a possibility.  I have no doubt that those poor kids who were bullied and commited suicide suffered from Satan's demons implanting thoughts that they are worthless and nobody loves them.  He will tempt you into commiting sin and then condemn you with feelings of guilt and remorse for doing it.  

 Only a carnal mind with a sinful heart would dare claim that God is evil.  

And no, hell will not be one grand party with Satan.  Best case scenario is God wipes you out from existance. 

Yeah, cos it was satan who drowned billions of sentient animals because humans did some shit he didn't approve of.

And you believe this because God said so? It is pretty easy to make yourself look like the good guy when you are the only one talking, however, with the bible god fails even that easy task. 

Damn him, I wanted that title. Well there is always next year.

What a jerk, can you believe that anyone would be doing something other than focusing on God? Poor God just wants to sit around and watch people worship him and mean old satan fucks it up. 

Huh, I thought god created the brain.

Huh, I thought the kids that were doing the bullying might have something to do with it. Silly me. 

I don't feel guilty or remorseful when I commit what bible thumpers claim is a sin, quite the contrary, I usually feel quite good about life. But next time I get a text that says "U in town 2nite?" I will know that whatever my phone says it is really from Satan. 

Of course not, there is not hell, satan or god.  But if there was, all the fun people go to hell so I would rather be tortured with them than sitting around satisfying god's vanity all day. 

*fanboy cap goes on*

Sidious really isn't a contender. The Sith and the Jedi effectively want the same thing, they simply have different methods. The Jedi work through peace, while the Sith work through conflict.

Sidious was racist and sexist. He became a dictator, through his design and the Jedi's failure to follow their own code (admittedly a situation orchestrated by Sidious, but which the Jedi allowed to happen through their arrogance and their attachment to power).

But Sidious wasn't the type to massacre or torture people for the hell of it. If he wiped out a population, he generally had reason to. Not spectacularly good reasons, but much better reasons than, say, a wager.

In that light, he simply doesn't qualify. Both god and satan have apparently little problem ruining someone's life and wiping out their family for a bet. Sidious never stooped that low.

oh, and i admit, i've never kept up well with the star wars literary universe.  the last book i read was shadows of the empire, before episode i even came out, so i'd like to ask about sidious's racism and sexism, which as far as i could tell are not evident in the films.

damn, i miss getting those texts.  satan never contacts me anymore...

i especially miss when satan used to take the form of a certain stacked basketball player who was all soft skin and hard muscle, with cleavage that fuckin' stayed there once you got that bra off, and an ass i still think i must've hallucinated...sorry, what are we talkin' about???

had the slightest chance of taking over. Though he did want to, Sidious knew everything Tarkin did, generally speaking.

Alderaan was also the last real system to be critical of the Empire. Despite Tarkin's attempts to play with Leia, it had always been planned to be dealt with. It's kinda like how Hitler looked at Russia. Alderaan may not have had weapons, but they had a millennia old reputation that was respected around the galaxy. If they had formally attempted to cede from the Empire, then the civil war that led to the Empire in the first place would have started up all over again. Alderaan was pacifist and didn't want that, Sidious was preparing for an invasion and also didn't want that. So he just bided his time until the Death Star was complete.

Thrawn was a tactical prodigy who defeated a fleet of Trade Federation ships sent by Sidious to intercept and destroy a Jedi mission heading out of the galaxy, with ships that were incapable of defeating said fleet. The story of how he joined the Empire is told in "Outbound Flight", by Zahn. The incident is only vaguely referred to in the trilogy. Episode 1 hadn't been released, and Lucas generally forbid any stories occuring before Episode 4 from publishing, so in a vacuum of info Zahn couldn't tell the whole early story for some time.

Maul was a tool, not a true apprentice. He was designed to take the fall should the Jedi suspect the reemergence of the Sith. He was sacrificed to give Sidious sufficient political capitol for election to Chancellor. He was generally disrespected, by any or all apprentices that Sidious took on, as a brutal animal who had his uses, but could never have been a Lord of the Sith.
He was aquired mostly by convenience.

I prefer a moral viewpoint that doesn't consider genocide a good thing. 

Higher? No. Better, yes. I think a society of jerks who don't kill each other or kill outsiders just because they are different is a hell of a lot better than a society of loving kind people who slaughter innocents and/or condemn people to be tortured for eternity just because of what they believe.  

I have a dog that I desire for companionship, under no circumstances would I torture my dog and send him to hell, even if he bit me. And I certainly wouldn't dump my dog into the wilderness and then punish his descendants for not believing in me.

But according to you Satan already has me, and I am not in misery. Sure, there are a few terrible things that have happened in my life, but all things considered I have far less misery than most. So where is this misery Satan is supposed to bring me?

I don't hate god, I don't believe he exists, for which I am told that I will be tortured for eternity. From what I can tell, Satan doesn't give a shit whether I believe in him or not. 

All I have is the significant lack of evidence that there is a god and the complete absurdity of the claims. 

Depends on the church. If it was Catholic holiday mass every day or sitting in prison I would choose prison. If it is watching Pentacostals go completely nutty I think I would rather sit in church all day because Pentacostal mass is some of the best physical comedy since The Three Stooges. 

But yes, I am not such a coward that I could sit in heavenly bliss knowing that people I loved and cared about are burning and suffering for eternity. Knowing my loved ones are suffering while I sit in heaven would be far more torturous than anything else I could think of. Seriously, how can you sleep at night when you believe that the being you worship has condemned and will condemn billions of good people to eternal suffering?  

lol  the kicker is, we were both christians at the time.  i was already pretty liberal and hedonistic though, so i suffered no guilt over it.  she was a bit more devout than i but pretty cool about the whole thing.  it was basically a booty call for both of us.

it's not hard to lay a christian chick.  seriously, not hard at all, dude, and they can be fuckin' animals.

So apparently you only believe in things that you experience with your physical senses.  Since God is a spiritual force who works in the spirit not the flesh,  why would you expect physical evidence?  You know, Christ performed many physical acts of supernatural ability, and the people still refused to believe.  No wonder God doesn't put on a pony show for atheists!  You can't convince the unwilling.  Case in point,  the fact that  atheists casually dismiss ALL stories of miracle healing as fake without even researching the story.  

Lack of evidence is not evidence or conclusive proof of your position that God does not exist as FACT.  At least admit that it is your opinion and not a fact.

I would glady sit through a boring holiday mass all day than be placed in a hellhole with no freedom with people who hate your guts and invite violence at any turn.  I think most reasonable people who choose the former as well. 

You are right, a human with limited knowledge might actually believe that killing every person in group X is necessary for the survival of themselves or their children. It is conceivable that a human might find themselves in a position where they believe they have no other choice. A god that is omnipotent and all knowing would have an infinite number of options besides committing genocide and by virtue of being god, would know those options, yet chooses genocide anyway. No comparison whatsoever. I can forgive the ignorant German soldier who patrolled death camps. 

Instead it is a form of hell in heaven? 

He punishes people solely for not believing in him. At least that is what most xtians tell me. They tell me that even though my grandma was the kindest, gentlest most generous person I ever knew, she is in hell because she thought christianity was a crock. Any heaven that wouldn't let her in is not a heaven at all. Indeed, I have talked to some that believe that even the most heinous criminals can get into heaven if they have a real conversion before they die and their sins are forgiven by Christ. Under that theory, my grandma (who I know for a fact died an atheist) is in hell while murderers, rapists and other scum are in heaven because they asked Jesus for forgiveness before they died. That is sick and twisted.  

My current dog actually used to be a red zone dog before I got him from the humane society, he is a German Shepard that was abused and left in horrible conditions (kind of like the ones god leaves many humans in), naturally he became highly aggressive. And no, when I first got him I did not let him run free around the house, but neither did I beat him or torture him. I treated him with respect and showed him kindness. I still wouldn't trust him around children or other dogs, but he now approaches me on his own for pets, obeys attentively and I no longer have problems with him around people he knows. He is still a little too aggressive towards strangers for my liking, but living alone in a rural area, few people approach my house unexpectedly. Perhaps rather than leaving people living in squalid conditions and ignoring them until they die, an all powerful god might find people better suited for his house if he took an active roll in making the world a better place. If you throw a dog outside and ignore it for its entire life you can hardly expect it to like you.

I am of the belief that with enough patience, there is no red zone dog that can't be rehabilitated. Apparently god doesn't take the same approach with humans, even though humans are a lot smarter than dogs. Seriously, it wouldn't be that hard for an all powerful god to supply plenty of evidence of his existence beyond a book that is thousands of years old.   

He didn't have to work very hard. You see, I was really interested in animals when I was 4, I had hundreds of animal cards from National Geographic that had pictures of the animals and descriptions of them, where they lived, what they ate, their basic habits etc. I was constantly bothering my family to read them to me and they played no small role in me learning to read myself. So when I went with the babysitter to church one Sunday and was sent to the Sunday School they tried telling me this man named Noah built a boat large enough to fit two of every animal species in the world. I guess I was possessed by Satan because I immediately declared that impossible and asked how Noah prevented the animals from eating each other. The reply was something to the effect that god has powers and with him all things are possible blah blah miracle blah blah. I replied as only a kid can, "You are soooooooo stuuupid". At which point my babysitter was called to pick me up because I was too disruptive. To this day that probably remains the best, most concise, most accurate argument against theism I have ever made. That was really my first exposure to religion, and from that point on I have remained a constant atheist. No "seeds of doubt", the whole tree has been there the whole time. I guess National Geographic is Satan.

just exploded. You have life experiences of the demonic realm? Objective proof of the nature of good and evil? A coherent definition of sin? You know your personal interpretation of the ambiguity and metaphor of the bible is 'truth'. If you have any rational arguments - arguments that are not based on naked assertions, ad hominem fallacies and thinly veiled appeals to force - serve them up.  

Poor TWDry needs a hug...

Stop trying to suggest the composite systems of sense and thought are somehow separated by arbitrary firewalls. Empiricism and rationalism as expressed in the human brain are intimately interconnected. There are no magical places where senses, thoughts and feelings take place independently of the vile physical realm, you Pythagorean. The human neural workspace combines all these things, all of the time. 

I agree with you on one thing, you can't convince the unwilling - people who are unwilling to face reality without the protection of their cosmic daddy. 

appeal to ignorance, with twin chrome ashtrays and double overhead foxtails. Look at the duco on that. You don't often see one in such good condition. 

It's a fact that at this time, we have no proof of the supernatural realm. As the claimant you carry the burden of proof and until you supply supporting data, your god hypothesis will not drive. 

One side of or aspect of Yahweh. Yahweh does not mean God, it means person or persons including one's own person.  However, it's people that did the killing, so then Satan is part of ones own character. There's different applications to understand. Devil is mere evil perpetrated by people. Satan is Deception to bring about an evil as "deceiver". In Hebrew a person is comprised of good and evil and the duality is considered to be Satan/Deceiver on one hand and human on the other. This is how all people are made. The understanding of The Hebrew mind needs to be understood. There is no such word as "God" in the Hebrew language. Satan, Yahweh, Devil are all references to the conditions of persons. The Hebrew mind has no relatives in Europe. The two are not related. The Hebrew religion is of the interior not the exterior. Yahweh signifies ones own person or the personage of all combined. If one changes Yahweh to a Euro interpretation or concept then God means "people", as Yahweh means person or people. "I" can mean singular or multiple. "I" can also mean, one speaking from the Hebrew concept of being, such as. "I" speak from Yahweh. Hebrew prophets spoke from the "I" concept of Yahweh. Yahweh is one's own person in Hebrew.

It's a situation similar to Armageddon. One could refer to it as a mini Armageddon. Armageddon is when floks return to evil (after becoming good for a while) and kill each other at the end times. In previous posts i pointed to-Creation is the key. Waters in Hebrew creation means "mentality" or mind, also thoughts. What happened at the time of Noah the people of that region became so evil they lost social bonds and killed each other. Flood in this case is not H2/0. They flooded over with hate and anger and went at each other. The same happens at Armageddon. At the time of Noah it was that region or area not world wide, just of that region. Noah and people of that time had no knowledge of the planet. You would be correct. People caused the great flood. The Hebrew understanding of "god" (so to speak) was people, not an entity separate of themselves. The Hebrews of today did not hold to their ancient religion. They have become as all others in the world today.  They've lost the original understanding and concept. JC points to the end time Armageddon as such---as in the days of Noah they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage (going about life as usual) then the flood came and took them all away.

So crazy blood lusting people were running around and slaughtered everyone except Noah and family who presumably were somewhere safe. Why bother with the whole story of the animals? Were the humans slaughtering all the animals too? 

The original religion of the region - not Hebrew until way later than Noah's supposed life - was very typical father sun, mother earth/moon, children stars. 

Your stuff sounds way too much like some made up stuff - you know, similar to the Masons.  Their stuff is all made up, too.

Ok, so why should anyone give any credibility to the bibles predictions of the future, such as the coming armageddon?  

credibility should be looked into. Prophesies are easy when one understands how it's done. Any particular mental direction brings about a corresponding result. That's what Psycho dudes do---but on a personal scale. When they know what course the mind is on an end result can be determined---if one stays on that course. Nothing to it. IE--Noah understood the manner of mind and thinking of the people. He warned them for many years. And---what happened. The ancient people knew more then what they're given credit for. Psychology is nothing new. It's been around for thousands of years. When it come to Armageddon one chooses to participate or avoid it. But that's a ways off yet. Our Psycho Smurfs now work on a global analyzation status. They have analysis on every politico and main religious leader world wide that they know of. They've got plenty of time being retired. and this is what your psycho dudes should be doing. But if they,re caught the psycho associations will have their licenses pulled, and govern dudes would demand it---so much for freedom of speech. Our guys are free and retired and can analyze any dang body the want. It's the reason we are here now. What the book shows clearly is what happens when people (on the over all, and especially the elites) think the way they do. This deal is headed for the door and and disaster.

This is hard to see, but we were surprised to learn also. What we have here with this bible deal is a people who had a way and understanding of how to live in peace with others. After a bit it becomes very simple to understand. So how did they do it and why is it important.? What they understood and found can be used by any society. But, the book deals with the book first and it's inhabitants and not necessarily everyone else on the planet. However, what goes for them goes for all others. There is nothing different about them except their beliefs. If their beliefs worked for them then those beliefs work for everyone else.

 here's what it gets down to. They see biblical creation as a mental/spiritual thing not a material. What they learned or became enlightened to (knowledgeable) as to what the/a person is all about. What that means is they understood themselves. Today the people think they understand themselves but they really don't. (our psycho smurfs know that and learned it from understanding these people). When they analize creation and what it means and then see what the affects produce they see Adam as a different person then what the world understands. It turns out that Adam is not an individual but a people we call then Adamites. Hebrews are their descendents. I have to bring in the term "religion for the sake of understanding. It's their religion that is unique. It's a religion based of the self, not a spiritual entity as the Europeans think. The spiritual entity that they see is-themselves. That means they understand how a person exists. To bring the Euro idea into it (which really doesn't apply) thei God is the entity that they are themselves. Their god is interior not exterior. All other religion are of the exterior. Once you understand yourself you then can dictate what you wish to be-and there are only two directions one "can be". That is either human or animal which are two different personalities every one has. If you elect the human only then you are different then those who are animal minded. But all have the animal option. If you elect human but with an animal trait you have that personality. If you remove the animal you are a different personality. different combination create different personalities.

 So what good is that?? Well. if the world relies on the animal person then that has it's result--as we can see. Change to human and---you have a different world. This is what makes an Adamite, knowing the difference of each. Societies today and in the past rely on the animal side to exist, which is causing all the troubles. Finding  (which we did) the precepts of the original Hebrews one can deduce the answer to the world problems. Refrain from using the animal entity and you have a different society. As it is---the world reckons the "human animal" concept but that is a contradiction and will not do to produce a peaceful world. . Even though one refrains from the animal mind one still retains it, but merely doesn't use it in relations with others. This is what the main objective of the book is about. The Adamites reasoned the difference from human and animal, the rest of the world hasn't. Hence--great problems. There is human society and there is animal society and each produces it's result. It doesn't seem like much but that's basically it. The psycho Smurfs can see this very clearly.

An absentee god who says he loves us but allows the horrors that goes on in this world, natural disasters, horrid disease, human abuses, is all I need to convince me there is no god. The problem of pain, theodicy, goes unanswered every moment of every day. TWD must deliberately blind himself to this so he can believe his fairy tale and continue to divide humanity needlessly.