INTRO TO HISTORY ENROLLMENT THREAD: 1st 'Semester'
Offline This is the thread in which you will enroll for the class, Introduction to Classical and Modern History, taught by Rook Hawkins. If you want to take this course, simply complete the following pre-course survey (should only take you a few minutes). Please be as honest as possible in answering these. Please submit your answers by replying to this thread. My suggestion is to quote the survey questions individually in one post.
Please note that after the first class starts on THURSDAY you can no longer ENROLL in the course, therefore you are ineligible to get the badge and the access to the private forum. However anybody is welcome to join in the class regardless.
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME:
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
6. Why did you register for this course?
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
9. What are your expectations for this course?
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Enrollment will close (as will this thread) on THURSDAY, June 7th at 3:55pm EST.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)
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Offline 1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
The study and or research of past events.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
Honestly I was just trying to sound as smart as I could.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
Many History classes in High School and College as well as information on the Internet.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
To ask them what about my understandings they were challenging.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Anything from the past to the study of the past to courses students were forced to take in school.
6. Why did you register for this course?
To better my knowledge of history.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
The bible is history because it is something you can study from the past.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
A lot would say that it is history because it is from the past, a lot might say that it is not history because it is not factual or remotely true. None the less it is still history.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I expect to gain a great deal of knowledge of many parts of history that I currently, don't have a lot of information on. I also look forward to studying history from a much different perspective than before.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Not read any but I have heard Richard Carrier in the DVD The God Who Wasn't There
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Offline PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME:
1. Please complete the following statement: History is... information about the past.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did? Without getting into a long winded diatribe that's what it basically is.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History? I guess my opinions on History derive from a compilation of different books not just one. As we all know , history is sometimes written by the conquers not the conquered.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding? I would listen with an open mind to their opinions then, focus on the topics that we mostly disagree with to dissect it and analyze it so we both can get the whole picture as to why we disagree.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given? Depending on the level of grade they would be serious and non-serious answers.
6. Why did you register for this course? Always interested to learn something new.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because... Well it can not be considered a serious history book based on facts for obvious reasons but there is nuggets of truth to it here and there but they're few and far between.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)? Haha!! I can imagine it would be a range of opinions from both sides of the spectrum and everything in between.
9. What are your expectations for this course? Knowledge.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description? No actually but I am interested in learning. I'm more of in the evolutionary ethics and morality side of the house.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
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Offline 1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
the study of the chronology of human events and affairs. If no more recent than 60 years as stipulated by the British and Germans, the study can provided evidences of the progression to certain patterns of societal and intellectual conduct. As an example, American historian R. Hoftstadter outlined historic events in periodic definition such as "the era of Jacksonian democracy" and "the era of robber baron industrialization." Other historians define different methodologies for formulating historic patterns.
History is a humanity. Because the course of events and human affairs influence intellectual discourse, history is routinely credited with profound influence on the other humanities such as philosophy, literary criticism (exegesis), and even the on-going dynamics of language formation. Karl Marx (a Hegelian) and his followers defined history as a science. They applied the chronology of human events and affairs in developmental pattern to a putative scientific methodology called "dialecticalism". A consensus of scholars has never arisen which concurs with dialectic methods or any other that can squarely define history as a distinctly scientific discipline. This is not to say that methods of scientific inquiry cannot be applied to historic analysis.
Again, because events, circumstances, and human discourse developmentally in chronology can affect methods of organized inquiry, history is widely credited for having a profound influence on the social sciences: political science, sociology, anthropology, economics, and the more recent field of social psychology.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
-- a combination of classroom and informal study
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
-- see above
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
It would depend on the particulars of the challenge. If the challenger were able to cite wide well-credited sources for the particulars, I would be prepared to concede certain aspects of my understanding.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
I have not taken the time to review other answers to question (1), but presumably instruction in classroom is flexible enough to embrace most of the answers with some critical analysis of all of them, in the opening session.
6. Why did you register for this course?
-- curiosity, although, I cannot honestly commit with certainty to the obligation of course obligations due to time constraints.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
of what evidences or lack thereof that have been discerned. Archeological, corroborating documentary attestations (and enemy attestations from rival social and geogrpahic sources) contemporaneous to if not within a reasonble time ex post facto constitute valid evidences. See The Bible Unearthed by Israel Finklestein and Neil Silberman for evidences or lack (as such) for the OT/HB/Torah and Tanakh. Also see the essays and books of Thomas Thompson and Philip Davies for more of the same. Even with attestation, it is considered bad form to conclude valid any accounts of extra-physical or supernatural activity. ("Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan).
Also, discrepencies and contradictions accounted by textual and manuscript analysis mitigate against historicity with compelling evidence but not proof.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
It would depend if the student has a pre-disposed subjective opinion of the iron age compendium of documents compiled as the Bible. Some anti-theists may assumptively dismiss all contents as mythical jingo with no import to culture, symbolic literature, or parallel and syncretized observance by other ancient societies. On the other extreme, many "apologists" may assumptively laud scripture as primarily requisite in revealing theistic inspiration critical to the positive optimum order of the human conditon and the positive survival of human consciousness throughout eternity. The apologists have never succeeded by the standard of "extraordinary evidence".
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I have no special expectations for this course. I would assume the student would have a more structured understanding of history and historic analysis at conclusion.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
yes
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Classical Historians (Free Online Resources at the Bottom)
1. Justin - presumably as in "Martyr". Yes, I have read some of his essays, especially Apology to Marcus Aurelius, anecdotally.
2. Caesar - "Omnia Gallia est divisa in tres partes" Anyone who has been tortured through High School or Middle School Latin knows this to be the opening phrase of the opening sentence of Gallic Wars. (It is almost all I remember.) My most impressive recollection is the way he used his engineers so creatively to improvise structures critical to the tactics used against Rome's enemies.
3. Tacitus - (About the Romans' destruction of Carthage), "you have made a desert and call it peace." Yes, some detailed accounts of the Julian/Claudians and Flavians by Tacitus. Caveat emptor -- Annals was only first discovered by a Benedictine monk in the 15th century. There is no attestation to Annals prior to then.
4. Suetonius - -- a contemporary of Tacitus. The 12 Caesars is fun! -- many juicy details of byzantine and conspiratorial conduct between ruthless patrician adversaries, if you can believe it.
5. Josephus - -- read much of the 1st century CE accounts in Antiquities and some of Wars. He presents an urbane and chaotic picture of Palestine under Roman hegemony in glaring contrast to the backwater-ish bucolic scenario presented in the NT gospel accounts.
6. Arrian - no
7. Eusebius - I have read some of Church History, anecdotally. His writing is odd for ancient rhetorical style -- somehow disorganized and riddled with gossip, as if he did not encourage the reader to study his word-for-word account, but only focus on points that might be of interest.
I also recommend Augustine. The Confessions is an almost textured account of the implosion of Greco-Roman civilization from a personalized biographical vantage point. It contrasts starkly with some of the biographical parts of Summa Theologica (13th century) by Thomas Aquinas. Western and central Europe was experiencing an explosion in the foundation of new universities and reforms in acceptable standards of scholasticism which were progressing largely unhindered by the church. It reveals how much these authors are products of their times.
A caveat emptor about ancient history -- eg. 70% of the plays of Sophocles, Aeschylus, and Euripides have been lost to posterity. We have attestation that they were regaled and circulated with enthusiasm until the 5th century CE. The destruction of libraries and pagan temple repositories of scrolls and codices was unrelenting from about 370 to 550. Thousands of esteemed texts and countless works of art and pottery were extiguished into extinction. Granted, this was much to do with the unraveling of Greco-Roman order to be replaced with an illiterate something that was little better than chaos. But we do have more than scant evidences that much of this destruction was deliberate and a focused organized effort. This is a little matter of history that I have found myself repeating to the apologists who routinely gloat of the survivng texts of "Apostles" and early apologists vis-a-vis just about everything else.
Because of the deliberative and likely revisionist aims of early post-Nicean ecclesiastical authority, some methodologies in evidentiary analysis of historical evidences prior to then should be applied with caution, let us say, by comparison to evidences of the events of the American Civil War. This is the one Achilles Heel of the mythicist theory, allbeit a pre-mature infant heel at that. The viable and creditable evidences for a Galilean Jesus crucified or otherwise executed in Jerusalem in 1st century CE could have been extinguished. Would the evidences have been enemy attestations? Let us say they would have been of a nature very unlike and compromising to the dogmas and literatures of a new and Imperially sanctioned Roman Catholic Church. Better to have no creditable evidences survive than any that may run firmly contrary to emerging Christian orthodoxy.
Modern Historians
1. H.G. Wells - I am unfamiliar with his history. I have only read some of his fiction. In his own time, he had a somewhat avant garde reputation.
2. Michael Grant - no
3. Richard Carrier - I have read some of his essays, critiques, and blog entries.
4. Bart Ehrman - I have read the study notes and listened to his tape series on Lost Christianities -- not very impressive. He is a work in progress. The theologian who wrote Misquoting Jesus is very different from the near evangelist who started teaching at UNC nearly 30 years ago.
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Offline PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME: Jordan Johnston
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
a combination of multiple fields of research from archeaology to literary analysis, and vital to understanding ourselves and our future.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
The more I investigate history as well as all other fields of human endeavour, the more the need for a greater understanding is made obvious to me. Education is the great equalizer.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
Various reading, debates and discussions with people, school.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would call for a swift death as the lord, our God, demands it. Then I'd snap out of my fundamentalist past and be interested in an honest dialogue with the person.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
History is the past.
History is the lies told to us by "the man".
History is stupid.
(sadly I have heard all of these and more in school. But when I think about it, I'm not sure how stupid they actually are...)
6. Why did you register for this course?
I firmly believe that education can help humans become better. There is a reason why you do not hear of historians and physicists running sex shops and killing people all that often. Through a better understanding of our past, we gain a better understanding of ourselves and our futures.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
It reflects some of the historical events that took place at the time of writing, but those events are obscured with the lens of myth and superstition, as well as outright fabrications in some parts.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
Both extremes, from complete literalism to complete lies, and everything in between.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
Hopefully to further my understanding of the human race, it's history, and how that past has influenced where we are going and who we are.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Yes.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
I currently have Bob Price's The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man, and have read bits and pieces of several other historians. I've seen The God Who Wasn't There, and heard Carrier in several debates and interviews on the IG show.
I'm really excited for this course guys!
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Offline
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME:
I Quixie (aka Leon)
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
History is the past reconstructed interactively by the present through argued evidence in public discourse.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
I quote John Dominic Crossan's definition. It is the best description of what history is that I have encountered thus far.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
6. Why did you register for this course?
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
On a tangential note ... a book may contain historical data and not be categorizable as "history". (e.g. Gone With The Wind, etc)
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I don't really have any expectations, other than to spend a few hours reviewing historical materials and perhaps learning a thing or two along the way. I suspect, in fact, that I may be a bit over-qualified for this course, but I enjoy talking about these things and feel I may be of some help perhaps.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
I have spent the last decade immersed in the study of matters pertaining to the historical Jesus and to the history of the movement which claims to be a direct result of his influence. As a result, I am quite familiar with the relevant tidbits in the works of Suetonius and of Tacitus and of Pliny and Josephus pertaining to this . I am also reasonably well-read in Eusebius (his "Historia Ecclesiastica" is an often referenced work in my study).
Of the moderns you list in the course description, I have read a few of Bart Ehrman's works. I'm also cursorily familiar with Richard Carrier's work.
On another tangential note, I am a bit curious as to why Justin and Caesar would be included in a list of historians of antiquity. Which Justin? Justin Martyr? If so, can he rightly be described as a historian? Can Caesar? Which Caesar?
Looking forward to Thursday's meeting, barring any unforeseen obstacles.
Ó
"Theology is that science which treats of the unknowable with infinitesimal exactitude." - Anatole France
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Offline 5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Hi Leon. These questions are for me to evaluate you. No question is irrelevant. It is also to help one think outside any preconceived notions one might have coming into the course. I will explain more on Thursday.
Quote:I am fascinated by the study of history and historiography. I must here also confess that, upon seeing the foto of the instructor, I am curious to see the extent of expertise in these matters in one so young. I mean no offense by this. It is simply an expression of my own skepticism.6. Why did you register for this course?
No offense taken. I hope I surprise you.
Quote:9. What are your expectations for this course?I don't really have any expectations, other than to spend a few hours reviewing historical materials and perhaps learning a thing or two along the way. I suspect, in fact, that I may be a bit over-qualified for this course, but I enjoy talking about these things and feel I may be of some help perhaps.
I would request that if you have any reservations during the course you approach me in private. This is simply from the perspective that there be one teacher in a class. But I would welcome criticism of anything I might bring up during class if time permits. Keep in mind it's only 32 hours to cover years worth of material.
On another tangential note, I am a bit curious as to why Justin and Caesar would be included in a list of historians of antiquity. Which Justin? Justin Martyr? If so, can he rightly be described as a historian? Can Caesar? Which Caesar?
Not Justin Martyr, although some have thought I have been refering to him. I wonder why people have not checked the links I provided to obtain the free resources? The Justin I am refering to is Marcus Justinus who wrote "The Epitome of the Philippic History of Pompeius Trogus."
And of course I am refering to Julius Caesar, and his Gallic War. Again, I'm a bit astonished by the fact that you ask but didn't research the links I provided to find out.
Looking forward to Thursday's meeting, barring any unforeseen obstacles.
I'm looking forward to it as well, Leon. Thanks for enrolling. The best to you.
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But I will be reading material from them in the coming weeks!
Did you want an emotional answer? History can be extremely cool or extremely boring depending upon subject matter and teacher. It isn't always terribly scientific because those who triumph over others usually write history. Because we can't observe it directly, it is sometimes difficult to distinguish fact from fiction. 
NAME: Voiderest or Stephen
1. Please complete the following statement: History is our past as far as we know it.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
I viewed as trying to define history. The 'as far as we know' part deals with the idea that the history books tend to be written by the winners/powers at be.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
School is probably the place where most of these ideas came from as that would have been the first time sat me down and told me what history is.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would ask them their views and try to figure out why our views differ while trying to figure out what it is about my views the person has a problem with.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Comical, Definitions, Quotes
6. Why did you register for this course?
To learn about how history is written or claimed and how we know it is "True."
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
The Bible is not history because it includs myth that is trying to put forth an idea about life/existiance.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (6)?
The reasoning would most likly be different for each person, but it the bottem line would be everyone wants to learn. No one can say they have to take the course.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I will learn about the historians and what they added to the field of history.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
H G Wells
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Fiction
NAME: Savage
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
Usually something that has been chronologically recorded of the past. History is probably the most important thing to get an understanding of because the more we know about our history the more we can accurately predict the future. An example of this would be plate tectonics. We know how large masses of land once were millions of years ago and we see where they have moved from then up until now. Knowing this we can see where these large masses of land will be in the future. History is recorded and being made continuously. Although it is always being recorded you cannot fully trust all of historical recordings because people do IN FACT lie. Such an example of a false record of history is one I’m sure many of the people answering this pre-course survey will mention called the Bible. Is the bible even history? This will be answered in number seven, but until then I will answer numbers two threw six.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
I wanted to keep my answer short and simple simply because it says “anybody is welcome to join in the class regardless.” and I WILL join the class regardless but I didn’t want my answer to just be one sentence and I wanted to show that I really want to be a part of the class. Another reason would be that I was notified at about 3 am the day before the pre-course survey was due. Because of this I didn’t want to make my first answer ten pages long because I would not get ANY sleep. Thanks Rook.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
I have picked up these facts and opinions on history from many different resources including history teachers, history books, encyclopedias, dictionaries, religious mythology such as the bible, and my favorite, the internet.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I am not the smartest person in the world but I DO think that I have common sense and I would say BRING IT ON because if I cannot give you a correct to something right away I assure you that I will get it for you. I would also ask people to challenge my understanding because by doing that I think I would gain more knowledge which is my goal in being the class.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Well I would expect that many people would have much longer, much short, more intelligent, less intelligent answers than mine. Or at least I would hope that they would because if everyone thought like me then I wouldn’t be able to learn anything from them, and I am hear to learn.
6. Why did you register for this course?
Although I know that anybody is welcome to join in the class regardless.
I would like to have access to the private forums, get the badge, and be able to really be apart of the rational response squad and help continue to historically show the inadequacies of the Bible and early Christians.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
According to Websters New World Dictionary history is a known or recorded past. Although I do not believe the bible has a correctly known recorded past, it tries. It is FALSE history and can be proven wrong is many ways and HAS been proven wrong time and time again. It tries to put forth the young earth creation theory which I cannot sum up with any word better than stupid.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (6)?
I’m sure many just flat out say that it is not history but it IS history. Is was written in the past and has, although not a correct, a recording of the past, which much of is not true. Some might disagree with that and say that the bible IS history and that it IS correct but I couldn’t sum my opinions of those people any better that I summed up the young earth creation theory in answer seven.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I expect to learn a great deal of what is true/not true about history from Rook. Although I denied his existence on youtube.com I have faith, for lack of a better word, that he will still be there to help out. I expect to have to read a lot and put some effort into the class but high school is out for the summer so I will have no problem at all in doing so. My expectations are high.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
No I have not but I would like to read Richard Carriers “Sense and Goodness Without God: A Defense of Metaphysical Naturalism” and “The DaVinci Fraud: Why the Truth is Stranger than Fiction” by Robert M. Price.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Well this isn’t applicable so I guess this is the end of my pre-course survey. Peace.
You've been spoon fed belief and you don't even see it, You just absorbed the religion that's native to your region - Greydon Square
Mike
Anything that happened before now. More specifically, the scholarly study of such.
Partly to be curt and cute, but mostly, because that's what I've always seen it as and know I need to learn more about it, as I've concerned myself with other studies for much of my life and need to expand my horizons.
My own brain and interactions with my peers. Frankly, most scientists, including myself, don't have a very good handle of this sort of thing. History in my line of work are fossils and molecular clocks. I don't need to deal with opinions and biases and interpolations and conflicting accounts - I want to learn how historians do.
A swift kick in the nuts, followed by a willingness to consider what was said.
Well, I think I gave as generic an answer as possible, but I'd wager the answer will range from people saying history is written by the "winners" and is generally greatly biased by opinion and culture to those who say it is a tool for twisting and justifying current agendas to those who say it is simply a pure and noble pursuit of the truth.
To expand my understanding of a subject I'm not nearly as versed in as I should be.
It's both. There are some accurate historical accounts and places and figures in the Bible, but it is backset against a mythical, fictional tale - sort of like how Charles Dickens included actual people and places in his fictional stories.
Anywhere from literal truth to total fiction.
To be enlightened.
Carrier, Price, Wells.
Their books and online and magazine articles.
Looking forward to it, Rook. Ag1 !
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins
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PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME: Lunar Shadow
1. Please complete the following statement: History is the scholorly study of past events
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did? it seemed to best suit it
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History? in my dealings with various historians of one stripe or another
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding? I would be open to hearing any case granted it wasn't fallacious or circular
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given? there are few that come to mind like Past events writen by the victors of wars, the past, the study of past events. to name a few
6. Why did you register for this course? I have a passion for learning and want to add to my base of knowledge
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because... may have some historical elements but is not history
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)? I can only see 4 answers the one I gave the one opisite to what I gave and is or is not history
9. What are your expectations for this course? I am not certain but I do hope it will be a good experiance
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description? a bit but not too much just enought to know who a few of them are.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Thanks for this oppurtunity Rook you work in this manner is much appriciated
(now if only I could spell right or if this board has a spell check)
Operation Spread Eagle, Kent Hovind, Creation Science, Evange
Man is the only animal in all of nature that cannot accept its own mortality.
PRE-COURSE SURVEY - ANSWERS
NAME: Mjhavok
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
Answer: History is the study of the past.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
Answer: Tried to put it simply. Commonly understood history is what has come before the present. It is also the study of what came before.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
Answer: I can't think of where. Perhaps school. Things I have read.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
Answer: Depends what they where challenging it with.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Answer: "The past"
Answer: Answer: "A quote like "history is written by the victor" lol
Answer: "Some joke about the teacher being really old"
Answer: Did you mean a school classroom?
6. Why did you register for this course?
Answer: It is one of my weaker subjects and I try and learn about everything, even a little, even if it isn't my area of interest.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
Answer: A bunch of the people who wrote it most likely had neurosyphilis or a tumour?
Answer: The bible is a big part of the study of histroy because it has influenced a lot.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
Answer: I like to make fun of peoples answers not think of them lol.
Answer: Seriously. Some people may point out inaccurices in the bible or contradictions or say It isn't written as a history textbook really.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
Answer: Minimal (that says nothing about you). I just hope to learn about something I know little of.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Answer: I have heard and read a little about Caesar and Josephus but for the most part no.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Answer: See answer 10.a.
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. "
- Carl Sagan
"Tantum eruditi sunt liberi"
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the
jasonhoblin (Jason Hoblin)
The record of people, places and events of the past.
Its my understanding of the definition of history.
School, people, the media.
Listen, evaluate, and respond.
a. study of the past;
b. repeatable;
c. boring;
d. how things came to be as they are.
To learn.
Trick question. The bible is has some historical data and genologies, while most of it is myth and folk lore.
a. is
b. is not
Learn about the study of history and its methods. Develop informed responces for historically inaccurate arguments.
No.
^jasonhoblin
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME: jackal
1. Please complete the following statement:
History is... boring when it is just names, dates and locations of battles and reins. History is interesting when it examines the culture of different places and time periods, the "why"s of what happened instead of just the "what"s.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
It was the first thing that came to mind.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
I picked up the boring part in high school and the interesting part from the Art History class I took in college
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
Clearly, that person holds different interests than me.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
I think most people would give a more traditional, dictionary deffinition like, "History is the study of past events, people and places."
6. Why did you register for this course?
I hope to lean more about history relating to the claims of the Bible, Torah and Koran so that I may smite my idealogical enemies.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
The parts of the Bible that are corroborated by other historic texts are history because they are supported by outside sources. The rest are not because they are not supported by outside sources.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
That depends on the setting of the classroom. In a school that is affiliated with fundamentalist Christians, the answer would be "yes, it's the word of God, so it must be true." In a school with a Communist affiliation, the answer would be "no, because it's just religious lies."
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I expect to get a critical look at what is history and what is not, with some examples that touch on events depicted in the Bible/Torah.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Not yet, but I have heard some of them speak in The God Who Wasn't There.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Philosophy and Politics
My Foster Kittens
Math/Science help: in Pittsburgh PA or Online
NAME:Helly.K
1. Please complete the following statement:
History is...information about any event from the past.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
Because I think it's a good answer for your question.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
The definition of "history" is not an opinion. Did you mean something like, what influenced me to come up with the definition that I have for what history means? If that's what you meant to say, then my answer is "the dictionary" and logic.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would make sure that we are talking about the same thing, and then I would try to find out why we disagree.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
No idea, I guess something similar to what I answered.
6. Why did you register for this course?
I'm curious to see how the class works, plus the fact that I'm intrested in educating myself on the subject.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
The bible is not history, instead I would say that the bible is part of history.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
I don't know, I would like to think is something along the lines of what I said, or better.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I expect the class to be worth my time.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Not yet.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Now I have a couple of questions for you Rook, if that's ok.
a. If I don't want to take the test(s) that you mentioned in the description of the course, would I be kicked out of the class?
b. If I happen to miss a class, would I be allowed to attend the rest of the classes? and If the answer is yes, would I be able to get some sort of online summary of the class I missed, so that I can catch up and be prepared for the next class?
Thanks !
"Jesus -- the other white Moses" - Me.
Supergravity
...the study of past people, places, and events.
I answered Question 1 as I did because it is a simple explanation of what history is, without getting into details about the differences between what people assume happened in the past, what acutally happened in the past, and what we can deduce from available preserved sources.
Exposure to history courses in college, recreational reading.
I am open to new ways to look at history, whether to challenge the definition I have or to expand it.
Many people would refuse to believe that what they had been taught previously might be incorrect, or that there may be more to a historical situation than they were previously aware of. Some would accept the challenge as a means for growth.
I have had an interest in ancient history for most of my life, though I have not explored this area as much as I would have liked. This seems like an excellent opportunity to expand my knowledge in this area.
...though it is old, and hence 'historical', it is not an actual history. Too much of it's contents are obviously non-historical to make it in any way a reliable book of 'history'.
Some students would claim that the bible was a complete true history. Some would claim that it had historical aspects. Some would claim it was largely a-historical, but had historical events inserted to make it more believeable.
I expect to come away with a much deeper and more through understanding of the classical world.
Ceasar, Wells, Carrier
Ceasar - part of a Latin IV project in High School was to translate portions of the Gallic Wars.
Wells - only his fiction
Carrier - I read his blog
1. Please complete the following statement: History is an account by an individual or group of past events. History is also the events that have happened that not only drove these individuals or groups to chronicle them, but have formed our current lives : cause and effect.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
Because that is what I see as the illustration of history
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
No where in particular. The conclusion was drawn by observation and analyzing.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would appreciate the opinion and challenge myself to see their perspective.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
History:
#1 Something that happened in the past
#2 Something that through a specific individuals eyes can't possibly be true as everyone sees in a different perspective
6. Why did you register for this course?
I feel that I am lacking a sufficient understanding of the history of the world.
7. Answer the following question:
The Bible IS history because it depicts certain cultural methods and customs.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
#1 No because the bible is gods word, the living word, not in the past in the now.
#2 No because if you accept parts of the bible as truth then the other parts must be true too.
#3 Yes because the bible is gods word and accounts for all the history of that that time.
#4 No because there have been so many re-writes over the years it couldn't possibly be accurate as a historic text.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
To help make connections with bits and pieces of historical information that I have gathered over the years. I want to create a timeline in my head to gain better understanding and clarity on those bits and pieces.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Richard Carrier.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Only a very small report regarding the cannonization of the new testament.
Enrollment will close (as will this thread) on Tuesday, June 5th at 3:55pm EST.
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
[mod edit: extra posting]
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
NAME: Teresa Nichols
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
. . . mostly a lot of political propaganda about the past with facts, dates, and some real or mythological intrigue thrown in. It's only that which has been recorded about the past. We can make only some very educated guesses about pre-history (unless Sky Daddy "inspires" someone to write an addition to the Bible).
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
The history lessons that I have personally observed and recall from my own forty-some years tell me this. Also, I recall a university English prof who reminded us that history is all lies, and that's why he changed his major to Literature, which is often more truthful than history.
Speaking of Literature, I think Biblical history certainly demonstrates a good deal of bias, if not outright racism against various "out" groups. Much historical information, including the Bible, derives from the interpretations of the writers/storytellers; or from the mood of the emperor or king or high priest of the moment, which severely limited how information about then-current events would have been transmitted. This still applies to history-writing, even in democratic cultures.
Thankfully, there is more than one account of some historical events. The information is usually slanted towards the "winners" or cultural heroes or based on the patriotic, nationalistic status quo/zeitgeist, but not always. Sometimes, I suppose, the losers are lucky enough to be literate and to be able to write something down that is not destroyed by the "winners" of cultural or other wars, and/or the history is handed down through oral tradition until it's recorded. I think that's also how many historical legends are created - first by word of mouth, then in writing.
I specifically recall that a pharaoh had all records of a rival or of a defeat (or such) erased and/or destroyed. I don't recall how this has been verified by modern historians, but I remember reflecting how extremely time-consuming and exacting a task it must have been to remove carved, engraved cuneiform records from buildings and tablets all over Egypt.
Surely this kind of thing has been practiced more than a few times in the history of the world. Politicians and textbook writers can frame certain events in a more flattering, or even neutral, or just plain biased way than might be helpful to one's learning process.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
Literature, humanities and social science classes, history classes at the community college, public t.v., Public Radio; and definitely, blame the Unitarians
.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
"Show me evidence that it's not so; show me how recorded history is all absolute truth." I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen, but I'm here to learn . . .
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
It would depend on the maturity and knowledge level of the students. Everything from "boring" to what I said.
6. Why did you register for this course?
Because I am fairly ignorant and would like to change that.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
The Bible is history because much of history is lies, and because it meets a bit of the criteria that I unwittingly outlined for it above.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
"The Bible is the absolute word of God and everything it says is true, so, of course its history is true."
"The Bible is complete balderdash. I won't even look at it for historical information."
"The Bible has some legitimate and important insights for historians about the ancient world, despite its bias, racism, genocidal instructives and crazy-quilt writing. In fact, perhaps because of those features, we can learn a great deal from it about the ancient world. . ."
9. What are your expectations for this course?
To learn something new, meet some like-minded people, open my mind to history; much of it has bored me; I hope not to be bored by it, but to come away thinking, "Wow! I wish I knew that before. Why did I find it so boring before?"
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Only excerpts here and there over the years; no in depth reading that I can recall.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
[mod edit: extra posting]
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
[mod edit: extra posting]
[mod edit: extra posting]
In regards to some of those questions:
If you miss a class or two, you're not going to get kicked out, nor will you get kicked out if you choose not to take the tests. However, the quizes guage your grade, and your grade guages whether you 'pass' or 'fail.' In other words, if you fail the course, you don't get the badge or the access to the private forum. It's a meritocracy basically, those who do the work get the bonuses. Anybody can listen to the classes, but if you don't enroll you won't have the opporunity to gain access to those features.
To Summarize:
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)
Thanks for the information rook
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
The study of the past,
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
Simply put, its the simplest, most literal answer I could think of.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
From self-study, I have always enjoyed reading, my statement seems to fit that.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would ask why it was wrong intheir opinion and try to get an explantion, I`m open to having my mind changed.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Variations of mine, if that doesn`t sound too arrogrant.
6. Why did you register for this course?
Curiousity, and the desire for more ammunition to debate thiests with.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
Most of it cannot be proven through science.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
I would expect them to be more emotional than mine, given the effect religion has hadon people.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I'm hoping to meet some hot atheist babes.
Actually, my hope is to learn more about the subject matter.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description.
You, Caesar and tacticus, mostly for the military history angle.
Morte alla tyrannus et dei
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME:ISH
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
An analysis/examination of what has happened in the past.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
That is my understanding of the topic in fairly broad terms.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
Partly from my education, and partly from having a broad range of interests.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would welcome that - it's by the challenging of ideas that we modify those ideas and gain further understanding.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
My own definition in (1) was very broad - covering pretty much everything which has happened since one second ago. However history can be focussed in many ways - for example:
Arts / Culture - How did people in the past express themselves artistically? What can be learnt about their broader society from their art?
Economics - How did the people support themselves. Were they agrarian farmers in isolated communities, supporting themselves? Were they part of a large complex urban society?
Philosophical - What were the current ideas within a society. How did they think?
Politics - who held politcal control of a particular society at a particular time, what sort of power did they hold etc
Science - How did the people of the historical period being studied understand the world around them?
Technology - How did the technology of the period affect the people living at the time.
Theology - Which religious beliefs were prevalent?
The topics mentioned above cover just a few of the areas which history might touch upon. The questions mentioned for each topic are examples, and I would not wish to suggest that they cover more than the minutest fraction of the potential areas for study. I would also note that these subjects are not independent of each other in any way.
6. Why did you register for this course?
Several reasons...
a) I've enjoyed the debates in the rationalresponders fora and have found it to be a stimulating environment.
b) I enjoy learning about history
c) I've become an increasingly 'militant' atheist over the years and I'm looking for ammunition.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
I don't think either statement is true. A document (such as the Bible or the Domesday Book) can never be history.
A document is historical evidence - but it is only evidence of what people were writing.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
At the extremes you might find some who would argue that the Bible is a work of pure fiction and of no historical value, you might find others who would argue that it is the pure unadulterated truth and that any document which contradicts it must be wrong.
Between these extremes there might be:
People who find some historical value in the bible as a document.
People who see the events recorded within the bible as metaphorical but still regard it as having a purpose in terms of religious or moral guidance.
In brief a wide spectrum of opinions are held about the veracity and value of the bible, and in a classroom one might hear many views about that book.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I have no expectations...but I hope to:
a) learn something new
b) debate and discuss historical issues with interesting and intelligent people
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Yes
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Tacitus - The Annals Of Imperial Rome - read in English translation (read it out of interest)
Tacitus - Agricola - read extracts in Latin at school as part of GCSE Latin (many, many years ago)
Enrollment will close (as will this thread) on Tuesday, June 5th at 3:55pm EST.
NAME: Arletta Q.
1. Please complete the following statement: History is... the record of our journey.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did? Since the dawn of time life has been on an ever changing jjourney, only recently has the details of parts of a journey been documented. History is what we have done to get to the future.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History? I honestly don't know, I think I may have made it up.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding? Tell me more.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given? This is a history class so my personal feelings wouldn't belong in a classroom setting of this type.
6. Why did you register for this course? I'm new to atheism activism and am still looking for my nitch, for my, shall we say, speciality. Untill then, I want to broaden my horizons.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because... is not history anymore than tales of Paul Bunyan and Johnny Appleseed are history.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)? The bible has no place in a history class unless we're looking at how religions have influenced decisions thru out history. It should never be used as a reference or source for information.
9. What are your expectations for this course? I have no expectations. I haven't been in a classroom in over a decade, I have no idea what I'm getting myself into.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description? No.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable): N/A
http://arlettaq.spaces.live.com
Name: Otishpote (Wayne)
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
.... the chronicling of people, events, and other changes over time, and the compiling of opinions on what caused the same and opinions on how they influenced other people and events. The search for the most elegant and justifiable theories for how the present came to be how it is. The studying of clues left from one era, while minimizing distortions from later eras. I think a good historical theory should shed light on where to look for even more clues about that time and place, which should help further refine the theory, in a continuous loop. I think historical theories are often best judged probable or improbable; only in special cases can we be justified in considering them as certainly true or false.
I know Richard Carrier says history didn't really become a science until recently - I am not sure the full extent of what he means by that, except that modern historians are more skeptical regarding the impact of individual bits of evidence.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
Cause the only contact we have with the past is clues that remain in the here and now, somewhat eroded by the passage of time, and our ability to reason. Thinking about the past (and the future for that matter) is just another part of understanding how things are here and now, and our imagination in considering what sorts of changes are possible.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
Maybe I picked some up from thinking too much about physics; from reading Rook and other Jesus Mythicist authors; and from trying to apply my own common sense. I am more of a generalist, just curious about various things, and my interest in history is merely part of that. My other interests are in physical sciences, computer science, philosophy, and now photography. But once I was shocked to discover that conventional theories of early Christian history are quite improbable, I have been curious to learn how much better and different of a theory can be formulated and justified.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I try my best to assimilate the best of all views, and constantly revise my own. And having multiple answers is fine when they compliment each other. On the other hand, if any challenge is patently absurd, I'll mock it as politely and as humorously as I can, if time and company allows.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
A simple statement that it is the study of the past; pointing out that there is a lot of interpretation and disagreement involved; talking about specific approaches to finding clues about the past such as archaelogy and ancient literature; particular theories about how and why the world has changed over time; acceptance or denial that humanity is on some predistined course, a showing of how certain themes repeat over time.
6. Why did you register for this course?
My knowledge of basic history is weaker than I'd like. Plus I want to learn more about how Rook thinks. Plus I forget how lazy I am and how much I hated school before, and think I can actually stick to this. I'll only be able to make the 11pm EST course, given I work until 5pm Pacific Time. I normally have other plans Thursday night. I am still considering how to fit this in.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
Like any ancient text, it is a product of its times, and thus necessarily tells us something about those times, even it if it not what we were asking. Finding out whatever it can tell us about the past, THAT IS HISTORY. That may require a lot of reading between the lines. This might not lead to the same theory that a strict literal reading of the text provides.
But the stories chronicled in the Bible are not all internally consistent or in agreement with other evidence we have from that era. How much the Biblical narratives correspond to events that actually occured is an interesting and open question. I am convinced that Genesis is mythology. Whether King Solomon existed, I am unsure. I think the gospel of Mark was first intended as a parable, not a chronicle of actual events. The Bible also shows evidence of having a specific theological and political agendas, which might be taken as evidence that its authors had little desire to chronicle the past accurately.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
Some would say it is all precisely true since God inspired it, and they may presupose the results of archaelogy to vindicate that view. Others would say that while certain parts, such as Genesis, are certainly mythology, that the Bible still gives an mostly accurate picture of ancient Israel from the time of King David and onward. Others have questioned even that. Some would claim the gospels contain clues about a real historical Jesus, maybe with layers of exaggeration and reinterpretation added. Others would claim the gospel of Mark was originally just a placing of theological opinions into a human setting, for the sake of making them more accessible to the initiates, and was never meant to be taken as historical truth at all. Others may even claim the many biblical authors had malicious intent and wrote lies deliberately to control people, or influence politics.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
To get more familar with historians Rook finds significant, and get a better feel for how Rook thinks. To learn how to better develope and test historical theories. To eventually be able to better understand myself how Christianity arose, and justify my view to others.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
I've read some Eusebius. I have a copy of Josephus, but haven't gotten into reading it. I've partially read one book by Bart Ehrman and various essays by Richard Carrier. I have several other of Ehrmans books on my "to read later" shelf.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Eusebius - History of the Church, Bart Ehrman - Misquoting Jesus.
This was written at the last minute, and while I am lacking needed sleep. Please pardon obvious errors of any sort.
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME: James (achilles308)
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
History is the systematic study of past people, places, and events using various lines of evidence.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
That is my meager understanding of history...
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
I picked those opinions up from the great Georgia public school system and a public college. I also have gained some knowledge from various independent studies / content.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would evaluate the evidence and claims and adjust my view based on logical deductions.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
I’m not sure….
6. Why did you register for this course?
I have a desire to learn about the people and topics.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
I would have to guess that the bible its self is history. It is after all a contemporary piece of literature. This however, does not mean it is historically accurate.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
I don’t know…
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I expect to be challenged and pushed to learn great interesting content.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Nope... sadly
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
N/A
NOTE to professor: I have a planned vacation next week. Therefore, I will be forced to miss the 12th and 14th class date in June as well as that week’s quiz.
NAME: Robert Alvarez
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
bound to repeat itself if you do not learn from it.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
I've always found that to be a very applicable quote in many contexts, not just the historical one. I have also been very fond of History and always wanted to get a minor in it at my University, but my other course work required too much time.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
From my favorite History Professor, Dr. Charles Cox
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would give them proof (at this point I'd have to look it up) from where important characters in History didn't learn from their predecessors and ended up making similar mistakes.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Similar answers as the ones mentioned above.
6. Why did you register for this course?
I have always been a fan of History and there isn't a better feeling in the world, than the feeling gained by learning something new.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible is not history because...
there are characters and situations of extreme significance on the plight of early Christians that are never seen or recorded anywhere except in The Bible.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
Depending on the religious backgrounds of people, answers would vary that The Bible is the 'true' word of God and that those characters must be real since He wrote about them. The skeptics answers would mirror mine with a few varying details.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
To learn as much as possible about Classical Historians and the methods used to corroborate facts and evidence about our early past.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Caesar, H.G. Wells, Richard Carrier
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
I learned about Caesar extensively as a Freshman in College in a course dealing with Ancient History. I've read H.G. Wells' book "The Time Machine" and have only heard of Richard Carrier.
Thanks again for doing this program, I'm sure it'll be a HUGE success. Who knows, we might end up getting more enrollments than DeVry University!!
If you guys need a Physics or a Math Professor to teach some of your classes, I would gladly be of assistance.
We could use a physics course. Are you a teacher?
Vote for Democrats to save us all from the anti-American Republican party!
Please become a Patron of Brian Sapient
NAME:
Hereticgirl
1. History is...
A written or verbal account of past events. These accounts are not always accurate, as a result of the historians'(or editor's) biases.
2.) Why did you answer (1) like you did.
Because history can be edited for specific reasons such as using history as a propoganda tool or to paint certain situations in a 'different light' to add or take away emphasis on certain events for a groups political/social agenda.
3.) Where have you picked up these opinions of history?
Generally, I noticed a huge difference in the facts supplied by high school textbooks vs. college textbooks/educators. High school history is what I like to call the cotton candy variety, whereas, college does not neglect to dig deeper into all aspects of history. I've also formed this opinion from other books and articles I have read over the years on various subjects.
4. What would be your response if someone were to challenge that understanding?
I would offer evidence that supports my understanding.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
The textbook definition of history would be given, mostly and I think many would also agree with my definition.
6. Why did you register for this class.
The information I'll gain from this course will
broaden my base of knowlege and be extremely helpful in my day to day business of the secular students organization I'm helping to build on campus!
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is/is not) history because...
The Bible itself and the effects of religion are a part of history, but the Bible is not a documentation of actual history, in my opinion. It is a work of fiction, with bits of information about factual people and events littered about its pages.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
Being from the south, most students would say that the bible is an actual, factual, account of history, but I have never heard a history professor say the bible is a factual and reliable account of history, if even 'histoy, at all.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
Again, to broaden my base of knowlege and increase my ability to effectively argue about these topics with others.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
I'm sure that I have in college, but I'm embarassed to say that I don't remember which works we studied.
10b. college discussions
NAME: Rich (Des)
1. Please complete the following statement: History is the period of time that has taken place since human kind discovered writing.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
When thinking about the question that was the first thing to come to me.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History? Most likley school. spending the last six years of your life with a course of history tends to leave you with types of opinions
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding? Tell them to show it to me. with the plethera of books and knowledge of history i would think a challange could be proven
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Any were from the deffinition to what history as done for human kind
6. Why did you register for this course?
to further my knowledge of our past. And to see the thinking of the time.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because history is based on facts we all know that the bible is not.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
It would depend on the type of people in the class. Theist would say it is history, Atheist would say it is not, and the ones in the middle would say that parts of it is history.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
To be able to learn what the Historians have written, and to see the thinking of the time all under a stress free inviroment
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
I would have to say no to reading any of their materials but i have studied a couble of them
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME: LaVaughn
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
Told through the victor's point of view
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
For the most part because it's true.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
The fact that growing up, I was told one thing about the religion I was in, and finding out an opposing point of view from people who had left, and had the forethought of writing it all down (if you're wondering, it was the Jehovah's Witnesses)
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
If someone can rig the Presidential election, why can't they give history their own slant?
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given? Good question....I don't know.
6. Why did you register for this course?
Mostly because I want to get my facts all in a row when debating with a zealot.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
NOT history because not only is it not consistent, but reads like a badly sewn patchwork quilt...not to mention the fact that it is written in a way that would behoove you to abandon all logic.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
The origin of the parables presented, the reason why some books were not included in the bible and why.
9. What are your expectations for this course? To expand my knowledge base and therefore become more the wiser.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Nope.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Enrollment will close (as will this thread) on Tuesday, June 5th at 3:55pm EST.
"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business."
I only became apparent of this thread at 3:50PM. So I guess i won't be enrolling.
THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE OF SCHEDULE!! THE FIRST CLASS WILL NOW BE THURSDAY NOT TUESDAY!! IF YOU STILL WISH TO ENROLL YOU NOW HAVE AN EXTRA TWO DAYS TO DO SO!!!
SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE!!!!
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME:Shanks
1. Please complete the following statement: History is the study of past events.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did? Because that is what Wikipedia told me.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History? It is what I've read in books and what I've seenon the History Channel.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding? I am open to anything.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given? A wide variety of what people think is History.
6. Why did you register for this course? To learn.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...The Bible is history because it is an old book that has influenced billions of people, but what the Bible says it not all facts.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)? Everything you could think of if the class is big enough.
9. What are your expectations for this course? To learn about historical events.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description? No.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME: Jessica
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
the branch of knowledge dealing with past events.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
because that is what dictionary.com says.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
see above
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I am open to anybodys belief
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
about what has been given
6. Why did you register for this course?
I am on school break and I don't have alot to do....I don't get to take any history courses as I am a science major.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
I guess it is a part of history. I would consider greek mythology to be a part of history also. I believe we have learned alot about greek culture from greek mythology.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
about what has been given
9. What are your expectations for this course?
To learn about something that I don't know much about
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
I have read some of H G Wells' fiction but I didn't even know he was a historian.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
“When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes.” Desiderius Erasmus
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME: Jon Lauro (NoGodJon)
1. Please complete the following statement: History is the future.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did? History teaches to many lessons of the future to ignore.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History? By learning it and seeing the similarites of the past and now.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding? I would simply point out experience dictates action.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given? Many things from how we are today to whats in sight for the future.
6. Why did you register for this course? To understand and to be on the same page with history with everybody in the community.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...is NOT history because many events in the bible are just mythical and the FSM.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)? Is: The word of god.
Is Not: lies, fairytale, proven failure...
9. What are your expectations for this course? To see history in a different point of view that may make me understand it better.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description? No.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME: Reef
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
A chronological record of the past.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
It's short, sweet, and to the point.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
Most-likely school...and the History Channel.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
Eh..I'd listen, can't go wrong with that.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
People would probably agree, but make it not so short, sweet, and to the point.
6. Why did you register for this course?
Learning is never ending, and it's so nice to hear history from an atheist and not some biased teacher teaching what and how they were told to.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
The Bible is not history because for one I stopped believing in fairy tales when I was a little girl. And secondly, why would I believe in a book written about the word of Holy Man by someone a long ass time after the Man was dead?
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
In a typical classroom setting I would be shunned from thinking that way and probably kicked out.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
To hear the truth.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
H.G. Wells
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Books.
Enrollment will close (as will this thread) on THURSDAY, June 7th at 3:55pm EST.
"There's a height beyond skyscrapers, there's a distance beyond the freeway" -Tom Gabel