Welcome!

Kindly explain to me why you feel that all religions are false.  I am assuming that this includes all sects/groups of Christianity (Pentecoastal, baptist, protestant, lutheran, etc), correct?  So, since no religion at all is true, then we can do away with churches?  All the holidays that celebrate these religions, such as Easter and Christmas?

Oh yeah, how do you know the Bible is the word of god?  Can you please provide empirical evidence to support that claim?  While I am certainly no expert regarding the Bible, I'm sure there will be other people much more educated in these matters that will join in the discussion.

I think I'd rather you came here to start arguments, at least that would show you were willing to engage in open intellectual debate. I don't think you'll be converting any atheists here. Welcome anyway, it will be fun. I promise not to laugh at you too hard.

You are a fairy tale believing, mythology reading, zombie worshipping, human sacrifice idolator, prideful, impregnator, deluded to believe to be chosen, child of a magic sky daddy.

You are a fairy tale believing, mythology reading, zombie worshipping, human sacrifice idolator, prideful, impregnator, deluded to believe to be chosen, child of a magic sky daddy.

You are a fairy tale believing, mythology reading, zombie worshipping, human sacrifice idolator, prideful, impregnator, deluded to believe to be chosen, child of a magic sky daddy.

You are a fairy tale believing, mythology reading, zombie worshipping, human sacrifice idolator, prideful, impregnator, deluded to believe to be chosen, child of a magic sky daddy.

You are a fairy tale believing, mythology reading, zombie worshipping, human sacrifice idolator, prideful, impregnator, deluded to believe to be chosen, child of a magic sky daddy.

(I said it five times real fast, now what?) 

if the bible is the actual word of god, he needs to take a course in basic writing skills. inconsistent, self contradicting, horrible fragmented sentences as well as run on sentences. my fourteen year old son is a better author.

Welcome tmajor.

It looks as if you've been given a sampling of what's to come!

Regardless, I hope you hang around to join the debates and discussions.  We can always use well-spoken members (theist AND non-theist!).  The main thing, if you haven't already noticed, is be prepared to back up any assertions and arguments.  Also, remember that most of the folks around here do not count the bible as an authoritative source.

Again, welcome!

Thank you all for your comments. Some of you noted that there wasn't much in my first post to go off of (into a discussion a presume). My first post was not necessarily designed for that purpose. It was just introductory to my presence here. So, if anything was unclear in that post, the reason for it was because I was trying to be brief and to the point.

Anyways, I will make a brief response to some of your comments below. As I am going on a long road-trip in a few days (returning home from college), I cannot respond in any detail as of now. So please read my responses with extra care realizing that I am not giving you a full answer yet. Let me know which questions you care about most (It's easiest to do one question at a time). Thank you for your questions and keep them coming.

Good to hear

Remember that I am defining religion as a belief system that puts man at the center (review my first post). Also, I do not consider genuine biblical Christianity to be a religion. Again, there are warped views of Christianity that depart from the Bible, but biblical Christianity is not religion (I'll try to explain this further at a later date). It is relationship. Some have even viewed the bible as a giant love letter from God.

I'm not saying get rid of all religion, the way you are defining the term, I'm just saying that we should get rid of the incorrect ones. And of course atheism would also fit under my very broad definition of religion. How does it fit within my definition? Because God does not exist according to atheism, or at least He is not currently known to exist; therefore this means that mankind is in charge. (I'll try to say more on this later; remind me)

I can't go into full detail here, but I will give you a few criteria that I go by when thinking about this.

The Bible claims to be the word of God (2 Timothy 3:16), but so do other "holy books". Even if we could prove God's existence in a general sense (we know someone or something is out there), the question still remains: which God? The way we answer this is by analyzing the claims that the book makes. In fact the bible makes many claims that are testable including historical, prophetical, etc.

It's no small claim for a text to say that it knows the future. If it can be verified that the bible has accurately predicted the future, without any error, then I think we could say that this idea alone would prove that the God of the bible is who we should follow. (this is a big area, so I'll leave it for later)

Where do I find the rules? I found rules in a different forum/board on this site, but is there specific rules for this one to?

Well keep in mind I haven't even presented any arguments. All I've done is introduced myself and presented my beliefs based on my understanding and research up to this point. I am simply making the assumption right now, and will go into detail later.

If the bible can be proven, then that proves that God has talked to mankind. That also proves that we can have a personal relationship with Him. And this relationship is not some weird mystical thing, but real and genuine between the Creator and the creation. Notice how it all hangs on the validity of the bible? If the bible can be proven, then your question is really a moot point. I can't go into great detail now though.

I'm sure they would. I'll let you decide whether it's my view that is correct or not as our discussion continues.

Thanks

hehe

I will try to clarify my blog post better. Any blog related questions/comments will need to be directed there. Thanks though for the comments .

The essence of the Repentance Challenge is a challenge simply to turn genuinely away from your sins and trust in Jesus Christ. You can do that without even being a part of http://repentancechallenge.com. What do you get? What don't you get, is a better question. God gives you His forgiveness of all your sins and even the guilt of them, puts His Spirit inside you, gives you eternal life in heaven with Him, and makes you a new creature with new motives and desires.

Anyways, don't want to get too preachy, but you asked .

A quick response: Most of the passages are simply taken out of context. I will go through each one very briefly (let me know if I need to clarify anything):

• Jeremiah 17:10. The verse itself, nor the context, is talking about salvation. The word salvation, or other similar words, don't even show up.
• Matthew 5:20. The scribes and pharisees saw righteousness as a matter of religious respectability or outward righteousness. One who enters the kingdom of God must exceed this in having inward righteousness; which, as the rest of the Sermon shows, is a transformed heart which produces outward actions naturally.
• Matthew 12:37. I think we get a clue in verse 34 where it says "You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good?...". Just from a quick glance at this passage, I think it's simply talking about how it will be obvious, by the way one talks, whether they are a child of God or not on the day of judgment.
• Matthew 25:41-46. "It is God that makes heirs of heaven. We are not to suppose that acts of bounty will entitle to eternal happiness. Good works done for God's sake, through Jesus Christ, are here noticed as marking the character of believers made holy by the Spirit of Christ, and as the effects of grace bestowed on those who do them." source. It's contrasting the righteousness that comes from Christ with the ungodly. It's not a statement of good works=salvation.
• John 5:29. One can only do good deeds if one is in Christ. One can only do bad deeds if they are outside of Christ. Without Christ, our 'righteousness is as filthy rags'.
• Romans 2:6. The context is storing up wrath for the wicked, not general salvation. Another way to say what it says more understandably would probably be, 'because you didn't accept my forgiveness for each of your bad deeds, I will give you what you deserve according to your deeds, rather than my mercy and grace.'
• 2 Corinthians 5:10. See, everyone will have to stand before the throne of God in the future, believers and unbelievers alike. However, will God look at your own worthless "good works" or will God instead see Christ's finished work in you that paid for all your sin? That's what I think it's referring to here.
• James 2:14. Even here it is not talking about salvation. Also, we must be careful with the word "save", because that has other connotations. Notice in this verse that he is talking to believers ("my brethren&quot. To put it simply, this James passage is talking about what will necessarily be the result of salvation in a believer's life. They will necessarily do good works. It's not saying that good works=salvation, just that genuine salvation results in good works. Another point is that what would be the point of faith if one wasn't going to do anything about it? It's like if I say I love my dad, but then I don't show it in my actions and how I treat him. What was the point of me even saying it?

Welcome

I think you will be challenged often.

Does this mean you will argue christianity is not a religion? Should be interesting if so.

What about the fact that the bible was written by men?

I would argue that mans primary purpose is survival, which extends to the purpose of all life.

Noone here thinks they know everything.

I like that. Most theists respond right away and make even less sense than they did the first time round. An educated response is a preferred response.

Try and make sure you don't inadvertantly do the same. In my experience theists can be very insulting sometimes without intending to. It's been said the reverse is also true.

In your blog you say:

This is an assertion without evidence. There's nothing to indicate the laws of physics were "created", and nothing to indicate an "outside force". There isn't even anything to indicate the universe could be created at all. You effectively say a lot of nothing.

I apologize if this seems a little short tempered. I'd had a lighter response typed up and the PC I'm on decided to slap me. I'm not in quite as good a mood now. > >

From my post in the thread "Faith With or Without Works" in "Bible Errancy":

I think the problem is, Serotnin, that you're reading these verses in isolation, instead of in the complete comtext of Scripture.  When viewed as a totality, the New Testament clearly teaches that faith plus works is the key to salvation.  Let's take a look at the Gospel of Matthew

Chapters 5, 6, 7 cover the Sermon on the Mount.  I won't paste the passage here due to length, but I'll paraphrase instead.  Feel free to follow along in a Bible, if you have one handy.

Jesus begins His discourse with the Beatitudes, telling us to be poor in spirit, meek, merciful, merciful, pure of heart and makers of peace.  Require any effort?  Yup.  It's work.

He goes on to tell us to persevere in adversity, give alms, pray, and fast.  More work.

He tells us to lay up heavenly treasure as opposed to earthly treasure.  Waht do you suppose haevenly treasure is?  I'd say our deeds.  Work?  Uh-huh.

I could go on for another chapter and a half, but I think you get the point.

Matt 19:16-22:  "16* * And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" 17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." 18* He said to him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19* Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 20 The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?" 21* Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions."  Couldn't bear the work of abandoning his worldly possessions.

Matt 25:41-46:  "41* Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' 45 Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' 46* And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." No works, no Kingdom here.

Now let's take a look at your cites from Paul.

Ephesians 2:8-9: "8* For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God -- 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast."  A standard and devastating cite for sola fide until you let Paul finish his thought in verse 10: "10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."  Oh, there's that work thing again.

Romans 10:9 could be damning too, but only if it's separated from verses 5-8:  "5* Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on the law shall live by it. 6* But the righteousness based on faith says, Do not say in your heart, "Who will ascend into heaven?" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 or "Who will descend into the abyss?" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8* But what does it say? The word is near you, on your lips and in your heart (that is, the word of faith which we preach); "   It would seem that Paul is talking about very limited works beong of no value here.  Which works are those?  The works of the Mosaic Law, ie dietary restrictions and circumcision. 

Throughout his epistles, Paul compares Christian living to soldiering, athletic training, and running a race, all very strenuous pursuits, further emphasizing the demanding work laying ahead of Christians.

James goes on to hammer the point home, penning the only verse in the Bible containing the words faith and alone in the same sentence Jas 2:24: "24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. "

That's the only passage from James I'll cite, since you did so extensively in your post.  But, all those cites support faith plus.

When taken in the context of a comprehensive teaching spread throughout the New Testament. it's plain to see that the clear position is faith plus works is salvation.

So in effect all religion then.

You can't use the bible to prove god and god to prove the bible.

But in other words, welcome to the forums. Enjoy your stay. :] 

I've been trying to figure out what the logic in creating the Blasphemy Challenge is when they merely have a subjective idea of blasphemy. It all seems that a masturbatory, misguided borefest, not unlike religion at times.

As I understand it one of the main purposes of the Blasphemy Challenge is to "come out of the closed". Like, when you live in a very oppressive / christian neighborhood and you feel like shouting out your belief, when no one else understands you there.

Yeah.  Another hit-and-run theist poster.

Sometimes I think they run away when they realize the folks around here are well-read, well-spoken and can discuss intelligently.  i suspect the hit-and-run types are more used to sheeple.

Good luck Tom.  I don't suspect you'll say anything new that hasn't been said before, but good luck all the same.

"I don't know everything BUT, I got it right and everyone else got it wrong." Not a good way to make an introduction.

We'd love for you to stay, but make no illusions to yourself about what we do here. There is a "kill em with kindness section" it is up to you if you want to stay there or not. But in any other section you do have to realize that you are a visitor, not a mod or owner.

We love to see people handle blasphemy and take a stab at defending their claims. What does not go over well here is preaching or whining. If you can avoid those things you'll do well.

Nah.  Lots of people have a hard time with it.

I've written a tutorial about the Quote Function and you can find it here.  

Enjoy!

I note that ol' Tom from the Repentance Challenge hasn't bothered to come back since his first and only day here.

HHmm.  I wonder if his only reason for coming here was to post a link  to that silliness.

*taps finger on temple*

Yup, that's what he was doing.