Christians, Please Read Here Before Posting...
Offline this may be a work in progress, please feel free to add to it.
there are a lot of misconceptions about atheist. a lot of intelligent theist have already stated ideas that they have heard before. if you do bring an idea here keep in mind the following;
1. white space is important
2. simplify without compromising your thoughts
3. don't get angry
4. faith requires the lack of proof
5. personal proof is not going to convince anyone, but it welcomed to be shared.
6. don't underestimate your opposition and don't over estimate yourself. if you are unsure, ask questions.
7. atheist do not hate God, they don't believe in Him (and sometimes they are big meanies, but sometimes we can be too). lol 
8. love, patience and kindness goes a long way
9. don't believe in God because society told you to, search within yourself for your belief. religion can be flawed... God created man, man created religion. if you are unsure of your faith you can not effectively argue it's case.
May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.
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Faith requires the lack of proof?
Then why are doctors doctors? They have "faith" in their education. They have faith when they cut open a person the way they were taught.
"There is no God because 'I' can't see Him.Her/It. Now that is simplistic faith. Spoken time and again from the "personal" opinion of the Atheist.
We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.
No Christian underestimates an Atheist, as most Christians were once Atheists. Whether they (the Atheists) like it or not.
Atheists may not hate God? That goes against the evidence and actions of the Atheist, in the way they treat those that believe in God. The anger and vitriol is ubiquitous in the Atheist stances and responses toward anyone that dissents of their absolutist way of life.
Love, patience and kindness? Only patience is seen in the natural animlaistic world. The one in which Atheism is founded on. Love and kindness do not exist in the animal kingdom. And, after all is said and done, Atheism dwells within the animal kingdom. Just in the higher, or highest, animal (of course).
If one were to look at, for, or to "society," for their worth, then Atheism may indeed make sense. When one looks at a higher way to contemplate order and value of the human being, one becomes a Christian, Theist, or at least a Deist.
Atheists do not have to be feared or hated by anyone, IF, they remain civil and respectful of dissent of their totalitarian ways of dealing with others.
0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.
If you have proof on which to rest your faith, you'd be able to articulate that proof, wouldn't you?
And yet, you've never been able to do that...
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Each time you test gravity, it produces the same results. Yet to see a test for god with this success rate.
There are no theists on operating tables.
very good post nonbobblehead, by no means did i want to offend your beliefs!
if you where to talk to a first time Christian that is about to step into this ongoing debate, what suggestions would you give them before they posted?
May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.
NO!!!!!! Don't listen to him! He's hydrocephalic.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
Yes. It is in the definition of faith.
There is a difference between confidence in your abilities or judging probabilities and excepting something without proof.
Only faith in the judging of probabilites. And it goes a bit deeper than that. I can't see any evidence of God. That is why I don't believe.
We can see the evidence of gravity. To put it another way. I cannot see you, does that mean that you do not exist? No. I see the evidence in you existance in your posts. A poor, irrational existance, but an existance, none the less.
And you have more then just personal proof that God exists?
All christians were atheists at one time. We start out that way at birth. It takes indoctrination to 'accept' God.
It is very hard to hate that which you do not believe in. I have discussed other subjects with you and not gotten angry or vitriolic. But something tells me that will change soon. You have done nothing but post logical fallicies and ad hominems then stick your fingers in your ears and shout "La-La-La-La" when we try to respond.
Dolphins, elephants, and apes have all been shown to grieve after a child dies. Love does exist in the animal kingdom.
It has been my experience that belief in God, and especially belief in an afterlife, devalues human beings. The eternal soul is more important then the flesh, so it doesn't matter if I torture/kill the flesh if the soul goes to heaven. An atheist would have a hard time justifying this.
So stay in the house and let the thiests run everything? Sounds like a plan. I mean, they have done such a bang-up job of it. The Dark Ages were a glorious time for all, right?
"When you hit your thumb with a hammer it's nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a special kind of atheist to jump up and down shout, 'Oh, random fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!'"-Terry Pratchett
On what calculator do you get something from 0 x 0?
You atheists try to prove your point that all hangs on something from nothing. You spin and twist in truly impressive displays, but you are the ones that hold onto from choas come order.
Not the Deist, not the Theist. I side with with the reality that there is a Creator. heck. I care not a bit that ALL of you "Freethinkers" hate Jesus and Christians, unarmed bullies have never scraed me once in my life.
Atheists are the emotion, hysterical ones that scream the loudest when opposed. I notice the Christians answering protest after protest in written form time and time again.
You Atheists can reject whatever you wish, but that does not make you correct on your views of Deity.
You reject what doesn't fit your beliefs no differently than any other person on earth, and claim that you are somehow enlightened. Sh-t, you're no more unique than people that lived three-thousand years ago.
The New Testament is a a group and grouping of historical documents, and yet "you atheists" gather around you those that dispute that. Oooooo. Is that somehow unique?
I am more impressed with the Christians of today than I am the same old tired opposers and their same old questions. How enlightened is it when skeptic/freethinker/atheist ideolgy follows the same old hedonism/totalitarianism of a thousand generations of human beings?
I look for deeper thinking.
0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.
Ok, lets talk about personal proof, since we can't really say anything is beyond personal proof then the correct way to be is agnostic, the smartest people on the forum will admit to being atheist in practice but in truth agnostic. it's a shame that theists believe in something that compells them not to take an agnostic approach in what is a massively important question
Still no articulation of the "proof" on which you rest your faith...
Or any proof on the historicity of the NT...
Is there any other point that you wish to not bring proof for?
For a guy with a positive claim that is supposed to save the souls of the believers, you bring appallingly little to back it up.
I'm not rejecting anything you've said as you've given me nothing to reject.
Which is the more valid claim?
0*0=0 (your claim of athiesm)
0*[undefined concept called "God"]=everything (theistic claim)
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
IzzyPop, fair response all except the following;
"...they have done such a bang-up job of it. The Dark Ages were a glorious time for all, right?"
not that i disagree or anything. there are some bad things that has happened and by no means should anyone sit around letting someone else dictate their thoughts.
we should take this into another post. i already have one started but only got one response. it is called, "help me ponder human psychology..." and it is in Chaoslord and Todangst's forum.
i don't like to link other posts in current ones but i would really like to hear your opinion on that matter if you have the time. you don't really worry about answering the questions and the first post is not organized at all.
feel free to start another if you like and i'll follow you in there but my thoughts on the matter is in the stated post if you want to get an idea of where i'm coming from.
May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.
Oh man, I hate that same old theist rhetoric about not being able to 'see' air or gravity or whatever - and equating that to your god belief.
Do you really not understand that difference?
We can scientifically TEST for air and gravity, we can attribute certain effects and characterists to both of these things. We can see what happens when a LACK of either of these two things exists. You can't do any of those things for God.
You're attempting to strawman the posistion -this isn't about things we CAN'T see. This is about having no empirical evidence for the existance of god.
http://atheismisrational.blogspot.com/
0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.
0 x 0 = atheism
That's a fallacy. Nowhere have we ever stated that 'something' came from 'nothing'.
I'm gonna have to call 'troll' on this guy.
http://atheismisrational.blogspot.com/
I do. How can you not see that we are attempting to find God in our scientific "DIS" coveries? Whether by serendipity or by "design." Why do you not see that some of us Theists do not fear science in any way, except genocidally? Which of course does not speak well for Atheism.
God. Same things. The numbers look very good for a creator of all things as a fact. I never needed gravity to have a word to define it to know not to throw rocks straight up over my head.
And you have been conditioned to reply in exactly that way. Why is not the Atheist position built on a myth? Once the world was thought to be flat. Strawmen are built on theories as well.
It should be laughbale that you atheists refer to yourselves as "free" thinkers if it were not so disproveable. Your lock-step mantra chanting homogenized parade disproves your position.
em·pir·i·cism(
m-pîr
-s
z
m)
n. 1. The view that experience, especially of the senses, is the only source of knowledge.2. a. Employment of empirical methods, as in science.b. An empirical conclusion.3. The practice of medicine that disregards scientific theory and relies solely on practical experience.0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.
Knne-jerk respone. Typical of the non-godian. Luckily I am done with dorm life and have no need to follow the crowd.
0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.
Are you trying to suggest that the reason science exists is to find god? What a silly concept. What do you say then to the statistics that show that scientists are among the least religious in the world?
How does you not fearing science bode poorly for atheism? Oh wait, that doesn't make any sense. Try again.
Oh they do? Well why don't you go ahead and 'enlighten' us by providing these 'numbers'?
Just because humans are able to discern some things from their surroundings, like your rock anaolgy, does not negate the need for scientific findings. Gravity does so much more then merely drop rocks on your head - you have an egocentric worldview.
Have any proof for that assertation?
The 'theory' that the earth was flat was not a scientific one - but it was a biblical 'truth'.
Any proof for your mindless assertations?
You know what disproves your posistion?
We do, over and over and over again. I've seen some intelligent atheists attempt to talk sense to you, and sadly you seem immune to it.
Broad generalizations and ad hominem attacks will get you nowhere in life - but after reading the bible a few times, I can see where you get your ideas from.
http://atheismisrational.blogspot.com/
You are the crowd, silly Christian!
You know what's typical of a 'godian'? Baseless accusations and ad hominem attacks. And you seem to have ample supply of both.
What do you expect to prove here?
You personify all that is bad and wrong with theism.
http://atheismisrational.blogspot.com/
Wrong. Faith is belief with NO proof.
So you see God? What does he look like?
What does this have to do with anything?
But you are not honest. You contradict yourself, spew ad hominems, and ignore questions that are asked in favor of proslytizing.
I played in a poker game a few nights ago. I flopped a full house, aces over tens. Someone else pushed all-in with pocket eights. The turn and the river were both eights. The odds of this happening are about 990 to one against. So his pulling a four of a kind proves God?
Reason is why we sit astride the top of the food chain. Thoughts on a deity are implanted inus by our parents. Morality is a societal thingy.
On an atheist web site...yes. You set upa web site for whatever you believe and you can set your own rules there.
Once again...It is hard to hate that which you do not believe.
I am not a Marxist. Take a look at Sweden. Last I saw, they were not killing millions of people, and they are a secular nation.
Bullshit. Theocratic rule leads to loss in freedoms and human rights. Look at the Middle East. Look at Dark Ages.
Justice is very differnet then might makes right. I think it is pretty close to the opposite. I have read and seen pictures of an elephant graveyard. Does that count?
And no, Balaams donkey doesn't ring a bell. Care to share?
The Spanish Inqusition. The Crusades. The mujahdeen. The Taliban. Abortion clinic bombers. The Phelps family. Jim Jones.
Actually sounds morelike psuedo-moral Christianity to me.
Only once the people left their theism at home and out of the public sphere.
"When you hit your thumb with a hammer it's nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a special kind of atheist to jump up and down shout, 'Oh, random fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!'"-Terry Pratchett
Bubblehead:
I have something for you.
1X0=Theism.
Something from nothing? I don't think so.
I got one.
1/0 = anything you want it to be.
My Artwork
What the hell? Man, I work, toil and labor over my barbaqued kittens and all you can do is say "we dont hate something we dont believe in?"
STOP IT MAN, WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT, A SPECIES THAT ACTUALLY GETS ALONG?
Oh, I suppose you are one of those who would rather debate than start war? You liberal pinko commie! Oh, you cant have that label, we atheists invented it!.
Next thing you know we might have peace. Why do you always have to spoil the fun?
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Oh good! You found your God.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
"When you hit your thumb with a hammer it's nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a special kind of atheist to jump up and down shout, 'Oh, random fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!'"-Terry Pratchett
I'm worried about bubblenut. Sounds like he is spewing froth all over his keyboard with every laboured snort of indignation and religious outrage.
Maybe we should alert the authorities?
Religion is the ultimate con-job. It cons the conned, and it cons the conner.
Mr.T : "I ain't gettin' on no damn plane [sic]" - environmentalism at it's best
They have been alerted...
Thanks man. I'll sleep a little safer now.
Religion is the ultimate con-job. It cons the conned, and it cons the conner.
Mr.T : "I ain't gettin' on no damn plane [sic]" - environmentalism at it's best
Thus my post.
Which is only aimed to bubbleyum, and doesn't apply to anyone else, so your cool wavefreak.
HAHAH!! i just fount your comment brian... touché
I sense a fallacy of equivocation
If you want to know why some atheists might do so, look in the mirror.
I can observe love and kindness, therefore love and kindness exist in the natural world.
Now for this:
So zero is equal to atheism? What ever that means...
Religion is not the opiate of the people Karl, opium is. Go to Seattle or Tampa Bay (or any city on earth, and see.
I see you don't understand the quote; religion, like opium, takes away the pain without taking away the cause of the pain.
"What right have you to condemn a murderer if you assume him necessary to "God's plan"? What logic can command the return of stolen property, or the branding of a thief, if the Almighty decreed it?"
-- The Economic Tendency of Freethought