weird arguement point-possibilty of creation by aliens and robots
Offline i was talking with a christian recently and asked them this, i still have yet to hear from as ive only just emailed this, but i think its interesting enough to post here for you all to read and comment on etc. its probaly best to read it twice to understand my point.
"yes but think if we built super computers and robots--- to analyze and experiment with all of life and physical existence...this is conceivable... also they would not be limited in their intelligence and ability to observe and discover and learn things...much faster than and more efficiently than humans are capable... These robots could analyze the human dna and dna of other animals and learn how it works and how to manipulate it to make new animals ,etc. also these robots could learn to build things to manipulate the physical world around us. imagine that these robots took over the world and could use our resources freely and efficiently. they could build spaceships and take control of other planets... and lets say there is life on other planets or even if there is not... the robots could design some life to live there... and then use resources from other planets to build a new planet, and creatures to fill niches in that planet that create a basically perfect and balanced interaction of all things... and these creatures could even be intelligent as humans are... but like humans they would believe what these robots told them... the robots could create a religion, and even perform "miracles" because of their technology... so in all honesty we only in 100yrs are very close to this possibility... so even if the earth is only 6000yrs old, intelligent "beings" with even 1000yrs or so of the kind of research we do, and with inventions like ours its conceivable that these aliens could have then designed our planet and creatures and gave us a religion to believe in, perhaps to preserve us until they return to use us for whatever, or to keep us intelligent but have this religion to keep us from understanding, and learning things,and becoming a dominate force in the universe... who knows... but anyway-- again we are near this capability now, it is conceivable... and i would like to know what you think about this.
again im just inquiring, im not trying to make you lose faith, i just want to know what you think. also i really appreciate and thank you for the responding you've done far. this is most likely the last question ill ask you."
http://www.thoughtware.tv/videos/show/419
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:D
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how very irrelevant, i would guess then you only skimmed this and came to a basic narrow minded view of what you thought i was talking about and tryed to play it off as rediculous fantasy. but if you really think about our level of technology now only after 100yrs, and how this technology is only hindered by religious dogma and money, yet even potentially in our near future we will be able to make super intelligent robots and computers, and they can analyze the world on more levels than we can, to find ways of understanding how it all works and how to manipulate it, and if they had free reign over all of our resources on earth, they could build machines to control the physical world, and they could build a spaceship, and design and build planets and the inhabitants. and create a religion for the intelligent life there to follow, and these robots could perform miracles for these beings, and then this would be a way to make them believe what the robots say,
and follow the religion firmly. and in this way these beings would still be intelligent, but so close minded and devoted to their "gods will" that they will never develop the technology to dominate other planets and figure out the secrets of the universe.
again we are close to this being a real event only with our level of technology, so imagine intelligent life somewhere else whos been alot more devoted to learning to manipulate the physical world, and alot more unified in developing that technology from the resources on their planet, no matter how big and complex the project is.
imagine the level of technology they would have with their passion and motivation, and intelligence, and intelligent super computers, and freedom to manipulate the physical world on a large scale, and their level of technology after perhaps only 1000yrs or so of this strict analysis of the universe and how it works. can you honestly think its impossible that there could be intelligent life elsewehere in the universe? and that they could have created us? and gave us this religion? and that we could believe it because of their so called miracles? or because of the so called prophecies fulfilled? if these robots are vastly intelligent they could predict the prophecies just to make the humans reassured of the belief in their lie, and to keep them close minded and unquestioning....
You really should read "Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy" or HHGTTG as Frog put it.
I higly doubt robots will be cabable of our level of consciousness.
Why is that?
Robots are just too rational...
The head Patent Office honcho also said that everything that will be invented has been invented (around the 1890's). How wrong he was.
In that guys defense I would be tired of all that paper work too.
We are still answering question on our consciousness. How could we possibly reproduce it if we don't know?
basically, just think only after 100yrs where our level of technology is now, with only a relatively few intelligent people throughout that time making revolutionary discoverys and advancing our technology.
so if there is intelligent life elsewhere in our universe, than just think of the level of technological discoverys and advancements at a parallel developement similar to ours, but with many more highly educated beings and with them working collaborativly for 1000s of yrs, what kindof technological advancements do think they would be capable of?
is it really so impossible to think they could learn to build planets, design lifeforms, and create religion , and miracles, and predict prophecies for those life to keep them thinking their religion is correct over the passing generations... just think about it, and look around you and seriously compare our technology to a possibility of intelligent beings on a different planet, with the same level or greater advancements in their technology... this is all im trying to say... you believe in a human-like god, but you refuse to believe in aliens that could have simply created us, gave us religion, performed miracles, and prophecies that were predictable to them, and maybe we are just some kindof slave waiting for them... because our religions hinder our technological development and global collaboration to further our technology and becoming intelligent life that can expand into the cosmos to live, and ultimately truly figure out the real truth behind things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKb1LXxKNHY
http://www.thoughtware.tv/videos/show/418
http://www.tv-links.co.uk/listings/9/5550 <---click_ the body
http://www.thoughtware.tv/videos/show/419You said this in reguard to the future meaning that you are doubting our future capablitities and/or knowledge.
Btw, we don't need a full understanding of something to play with it.
I love it when people take me posting quites from Hitchhiker's Guide as an insult...
If you really think that has no relevence, in the Hitchhiker's Guide universe, the Earth was built by transdimensional beings, who took on the form of mice to run experiments on humans. The Earth was a giant computer with organic components designed by a supercomputer that had been built to discover the ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything, which it did over the course of a ridiculous period of time, only to find that they didn't really know the question, which was why the Earth was designed.
Personally, I think I'd be honored to have someone do that to me. It really is a great book. You can get all sorts of things when you through infinities into the loop.
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How exactly do you define "consciousness"? By consciousness you don't mean intelligence, do you? If you really think that it's impossible to build an artificial intelligence smarter than human, then I believe there is a 100% chance you are wrong.
Trust and believe in no god, but trust and believe in yourself.
Yes I am doubting it.
Progress has been made, but evolution had a billion year head start.
No, but by playing with it we may never get a full understanding. Not enough to replicate it.
Bender would say "Bite my shiny metal ass!"
My Artwork
not to downplay humanity, but honestly all life is is a functional combination of dna, dna that can be analyzed,experimented with and understood by computers and technology.
and also all the rest of the stuff that isnt life, is basically a stabilized combination,form or state -whatever- of atoms, that interact with each other because of energy ... again that can be analyzed and understood how to manipulate...
so essentially everything is just matter and energy, and the interactions among them.
and to go further everything follows rules which can be learned.
ps: if anybody thinks the previous ideas where rediculous, please watch this short video
http://gisburne.com/ngparody.php?vid=0190i want to apologize to froggy my second comment was a little too serious.
this was a serious question to my friend who is close minded about anything other than his religion, so i was trying to open his mind just a little.
with this in mind i thought froggy was another sarcastic fundementalist christian trying to make my post look rediculous.
Computers change much faster then life can and time isn't that important when we are talking about any possibility. The only way you can say that they wouldn't is if there is something magical about minds that can't be duplicated or humans won't pursue this area for some reason.
Play as in do things with it, exploring it, and testing it out.
Obviously, but technological evolution is a million-fold faster than biological evolution. Robots have been around for some decades, and right now their intelligence is that of a retarded insect (
). In evolutonary timescale, this is propably a hundred million to several billion times faster than the evolution of a biological creature's intelligence.
Face it: You are wrong when you think that we will never create robots smarter than humans. I think everyone here agrees with me.
Trust and believe in no god, but trust and believe in yourself.
I am saying the brain is extremly complex. That is why we can't do it.
I'm pretty sure I'm right. We are merely scratching the surface of our own brains.
the brain is not as difficult to understand as you might think, remember we have expert psychologists, brain scanning devices, fmri, eegs, expert neurosurgeons, etc... we pretty much have it figured out physically and electricly, we just have to figure out some of its algorithms and such that it uses to compress data,etc...
you'll find this extremly helpful.
http://www.thoughtware.tv/videos/show/9
http://www.thoughtware.tv/videos/show/639
that creativity machine video is really freaking me out right now actually, because it is Exactly what i was talking about all along, i have this chill down my spine every time i think about what a coincidence it was to find this.
Okay, whatever. But life is just a chemical reaction, is it not? In this sense, modern computers and human minds have no difference between them. If we could define the atomic layout of a human brain, then create a system that can hold an equal amount of information and find a way to feed information to that computer system, and there you have it: A human-like artificial intelligence.
I think it's going to happen within the next 60 years. You wanna bet? I bet 50 dollars that I will see a human-like artificial intelligence within my lifetime
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Trust and believe in no god, but trust and believe in yourself.
I would suggest caution in spreading the message of this documentary.
The very first line should cause worry over the honesty of the film,
There is an obvious playing up over the significance of whatever it is they are going to talk about and a subtle played down confession that virtually nobody has heard of it.
The narrator describes the field a having attracted "original thinkers". The term is often used as a compliment, however, it is normally the case that the person receiving the praise is renowned for solving a problem with ingenious methods. These men have yet to achieve such fame and I am compelled to consider that the quote really refers to thinking in a non-traditional manner or being "out-there".
The amateur nature of the video, which is evident from the background noises in the public interviews, makes one consider the purpose behind it. Containing these brief interviews shows that the target audience is the general public or rather laymen pertaining to the purveyors field of study.
Considering the overstatement with the apparent target audience makes me of the opinion that these people are after external support for research in a field where the results are dubious in nature.
The device that the video is about has a name aimed to create awe and this seems to be the most substantial evidence of its usefulness, to wit all of its other feats seem pointless and vague.
On the whole I find the video purposefully misleading, he even uses the notion of cosmic consciousness as a term to instill wonderment at the end...a leverage...an appeal...to the spiritually rich.
I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind.
It's coo'
I find it kinda funny that theists generally think I'm an atheist, and atheists generally think I'm a theist. Though I guess the theist badge helps give that impression
Helping someone to keep an open mind is a great thing. I think Hitchhiker's Guide helps a little with that.
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And a shakespheare play is nothing but words.
Are you working on it?
but thats shakespeares use of words, not his creation of them.
also the science has shown it will happen that artificial human-like intelligence will emerge in the next 60yrs, even transhuman intelligence. your speculation that it will not, has no effect in this.
Actually, he did create a lot of words. Quite a few of our now common ones, in fact.
But we still can't be sure if it'll be conscious. I suppose at a certain point, it doesn't really matter.
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The whole alien thing was invented largely, if not completely by Freemasons in order to destroy traditional Christian faith and belief. People have to understand that there is a Freemasonic conspiracy against Christianity. It has been going on for centuries. The Freemasons penetrated the Catholic Church in the 1960's and protestant seminaries in 18th and 19th century Germany. They created what is called "liberal theology." Most religious world leaders are Freemasons. They have infiltrated all religions. They are creating a new pseudo religion where their leader the Antichrist will sit as absolute ruler. They were responsible for causing millions of people to lose their faith in the post Vatican II reforms. They butchered the traditional Mass with the New Mass (Novus Ordo). Their goal is to attack and destroy the truth. They are agents of Antichrist. The Republican Party AND the Democratic Party were both created by Masons. America is a Masonic Republic. We have all been lied to. This whole Intelligent Design thing is going to lead to Extra-Terestrials, not God. The Freemason's want to destroy faith in God because they have been working for the devil for almost 2,000 years. Its the age old battle between Christ and Lucifer. Many people will fall for the delusion that we were seeded by aliens. The Antichrist wants to take all credit away from God. Most, if not all Atheistic organizations around the world were created by or are funded by Freemasons. They know atheism is bull shit, but they don't want you to know that. They don't want you to think. They are indoctrinating us and telling us what to believe. There are very powerful forces at work in the world. The good news is that they lose in the end.
The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator -- Louis Pasteur