I'm a little over halfway, but I too must postpone the rest as it is getting so late, and I need to sleep.  But a pre-emptive "well done" anyway!

Good read. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

I didn't forget about you, I've just been busy as well.  Peer Review is something we have to go through to remain honest, don't take it too personally.  It is part of the scientific process that Strobel nor Holding will ever understand or comprehend and because of that you will be superior to them at every step.  My book is still in the works, but when it comes out feel free to use any content (with proper citations of course) you find in there to supplement your arguments.  I'm also coming out with a shorter selection of essays which you can also cite if you so wish to.  =)

 I hope all is well with you.

No, Jesus was not a school or a philosophy. "Jesus" = "Yeheshua" = Joshua = "Yahweh Saves"/"Savior". In this context, the name has significant meaning in reference to the story.

The story is written in the form of Greek epic, using a chorus (the crowds of "Jews" in various villages - esp. the Bar'abbas scene), scripture reinterpretation (all over the place - re: my book when published), use of Homer's epic by the author - a mimetic quality by which the reader would have understood and related the context back to Homer to understand a deeper motif or subtrope, Greek philosophy and Orphic traditions, comedy and tragedy, etc... The styles employed by the Markan author are mimetic and interpretative, in that the story was designed purposefully with an intended literary trope in mind. It is meant to be read as fiction - in the same way the book of Tobit, or Job, were meant to also be read.

Jesus was no more a real person then Tobias or Enoch or Bell. They are Jewish creations - very interesting and theological inventions which should be respected as high Hellenistic literature. But, as far as biography or history go, they were never meant to stop into the ball park.

The Christian movement probably initially started as a philosophical lifestyle much like the Essenes (in fact they were probably Essenes) or the Therapeutae. What you have is a movement of Jews who do not like the way certain Jews are doing things, probably some of the Pharisees who were supposedly the sect of Jews in power of the Temple, which were probably corrupt and damaging what the Christian Jews saw as what should otherwise be a position of piety.

I am a bit of a 'Carrierian' on the purpose behind the movement. I would say that because of the target of the narratives, the respect of the poor, the inheritance of Heaven by the meek, etc..., caused the upheaval of the Temple by rotting it from the bottom, up. The poor and the meek made up the temples power - remove that power and the temple metaphorically crumbles. Although, it eventually did crumble which may have made the movement seem more powerful, perhaps made it grow. In the end, however it happened (I'm looking into possible theories which need to be presented to scholarship) the message did get skewed and altered.

Well Moses existed the same way that Jesus did - in literary concept and that is as far as it goes. But had they lived Moses would have lived thousands of years before Jesus (depending on which theological tripe you read). In any case, we do have Jewish non-religious works that exist. Philo and Josephus, Aristobolus, Aristeas, the four Maccabees, etc... are a testament to the Greek education of many Jews during their time in the Diaspora and the homeland during the Hellenistic age. But, the gross amount of scripture reinterpretation and invention during the Hellenistic age by assimilated and nonassimilated Jews is so astounding that it would be irrational to claim that the Gospels are an exception to this rule as opposed to the maxim.

 Of course I don't take it personally.  My previous papers on the Secular Web were far poorer than their current condition, prior to peer review.  I'm sure that will be the case here as well.  I know that I'm stepping outside my expertise a fair bit, you, Carrier, etc., are far more knowledgeable than I ever will be.  But, given that I've taken refuting Strobel as my personal cross to bear, so to speak, I'm doing the best I can.  I'm just saying that it will probably be a fair amount of time before I can get the update up to SW standards due to both personal time contraints, and their contraints.

I'm sure your book will be great when it comes out.  But, I certainly have had no problems about lack of good sources.  With the stuff published by Carrier, Price, Ehrman, etc., the problem isn't finding good references, the problem is picking the best one for the job.

    Thanks Rook, thinking now on this sober, I hope my questions don't seem silly, but I ask for us all, that don't have the real time required for real unbiased answers.

Some of these pasted notes below are just to share with RRS readers, and to show I'm doing a "little" homework.

Anyway Rook, Not that agreeing is my goal here, - but I think we do .... as you say,

That's what I meant by "school of thought" , .... and the "story" being a pervertion of a non superstitious "We are God philosophy", (much like that of Buddhism) turned into superstitious religion of gov/church controll etc etc

I've always believed, and so it seems, that anti -status quo- religious/gov writting was not tolerated. Even Socrates was snuffed, and Free Thinkers (Philosophy) was suppressed even outlawed in most all ancient Roman society, as even within the rebellious pious Jewish tribes themselves.

Jewish "wisdom" literature seems always pro-religious as the Book of Tobit, 2 - 8 BC, a religious novel originally written in Aramaic , the native language of Jesus untill Greek replaces Aramaic as the language of power in the region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language#History Most linguists agree that after the 6th century BCE, when the Neo-Babylonian Empire destroyed Jerusalem and exiled its population to Babylon and Cyrus The Great, the King of Kings or Great King of Persia, gave them their freedom to return, the Biblical Hebrew dialect prevalent in the Bible came to be replaced in daily use by new dialects of Hebrew and a local version of Aramaic.

YES YES BUT

Wow interesting reading , jewish Philo , lots to digest there but still quite religious as Plato was .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo#Exegesis

... but Josephus was a historian priest

Aristobolus ?

Aristeas, was a greek poet

Maccabees were high priests

That's my POINT, I can't find any anti-religious Jewish works .... during the bible times ? ( except for the very Jesus ideas that got perverted ? )

I still feel that the non-superstitious Jesus pool of thought ( like Buddhism) was squashed and perverted ???

I am missing something ??? Was every jew a religious kook ? Makes me realize the atheistic suppression still rampet in the mideast ....

So Homer a Greek work of huge influence, is what the bible was written in the style of ? I got no problem with that ....

Paul was a jew , but were all the NT authors jews? or the re working of jewish ideas or midrash by the ruling greeks/romans?

Markan - , do you agree that Mark was written first ? Was he even a jew ?

The Bible is so Greek, even the saying goes 'it's all Greek to me'. Is that mostly a true statement ?

I really can't seem to get a clear picture of the Bible times regarding ALL the influences from east to west. I've not found a basic brief summary that answers.

..... can I get a "Confused Responders Badge" ! Damn I wish I had a time machine .... Hey but I do, it's folks like Rook !

..... so crazy and amazing is this life on planet earth. Will humans ever learn to relax ? Buddha can help !

Thanks Rook

and HEY  caseagainstfaith , finally got a chance to read some in your site,  .... Outstanding, Bravo, so many need to read that .... a Buddha you are !  

gotta run for now ...

caseagainstfaith, Hey you buddha rascal,

for more responses, I'd repost this as "Kicking Lee Strobel's Booty" !