Do you teach your kids critical thinking, and how?
Offline I have two kids (2 1/2, and 8 months) and I plan on teaching them critical thinking from early on. Rather than spoon feeding them our beliefs, my wife and I want to teach them how to think for themselves, and think outside the box. I plan on picking up "Parenting Beyond Belief" after listening to the Infidel Guy's Podcast wtih the author, he seems like he is doing a great job of teaching his kids how to think critically. If anyone is interested, the podcast was really good. Anybody read the book? There's a few other books on the subject that I put on my Amazon wish list, but they are probably geared more towards older kids.
Do you teach your kids crit. thinking? Give some examples if you can. Can you think of any way to start teaching a toddler the begginings of the subject?
I think it's extremely important for kids to learn this. If kids learned this in school, they would be much less susceptible to indoctrination, as well as believing in other things like astrology, or supernatural healing etc.
What does everyone think about this?
-Tony
"They always say the same thing; 'But evolution is only a theory!!' Which is true, I guess, and it's good they say that I think, it gives you hope that they feel the same about the theory of Gravity and they might just float the f**k away."
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I have it and I love it. I heard Reggie's show with the editor too. When my ex and I were engaged we used to talk a lot about future parenting/adoption, etc. and we both read the book. I don't have any real-life examples of using the book's methods with my own children but I do encourage critical thinking in other children I come across - be it relatives or just a random kid asking me a question in the supermarket.
The best part about the book was that it encouraged me to think about how I was raised and what specific things from my personal childhood I have carried into adulthood.
I agree that children should be taught critical thinking rather than spoonfed any belief (be it theistic or atheistic)... As far as teaching critical thinking in schools I am divided on the subject. I do think some critical thinking should be integrated into the curriculum but I also believe there are some things that just *have* to be memorized - such as math, fundamentals of sciences, grammar - and I think these things are more likely to occur within lower grades and thus contribute to the lack of critical thinking our kids walk away with in an elementary school education.
I think it is a little early to worry about teaching reason to them. Why don't you focus on teaching them not to shit in their pants?
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
Well obviously it's too early with the oldest one right now. I just want to make sure I have a clear cut idea of how I'm going to teach him, cause he is not that far off from being ready to start learning concepts like that. My wife and I taught our son the alphabet, numbers, shapes etc. very early, and in most cases he was a good year and a half ahead of most other kids in learning those things. Their babysitter was costantly asking how I got him to understand things so early. Kids really have a great capacity for learning much earlier than we typically teach here in the west. I don't intend to tell him about critical thinking yet, just trick him into doing it before he is even old enough to understand what he is doing. IMHO we coddle young kids a bit much in America, when we should be teaching them. If you notice, a lot of people who are most successful in sports, music, etc. started very early in life, and the other people in that area never overcome that headstart.
Now teaching them not to shit in their pants, on the other hand. That is much harder!
"They always say the same thing; 'But evolution is only a theory!!' Which is true, I guess, and it's good they say that I think, it gives you hope that they feel the same about the theory of Gravity and they might just float the f**k away."
So much for being potty trained. I almost pissed myself when I read this.
When my son was born 14 years ago I very dutifully began indoctrinating him into Catholicism right off--RE, mass, socal activities, bible reading, catechism, etc.
Then, I had a painful epiphany about the church, about faith and reclaimed atheism when he was about 10.
He hasn't skipped a beat, he took to critical thinking like a duck to water. (Except for a tendency towards superstition that I hope he matures out of.)
I pulled him from public school in the 7th grade and have been home schooling him. A deliberate emphasis has been placed on teaching him how to think, about logic, etc. I use workbooks, have him read blog articles, accurate history, civics--aka US Government and politics. But those are just accessories. What has probably been of the greatest value is that I have always talked to him as if he was intelligent and had the ability to think for himself. I ask him his opinions and I expect him to be able to express his reasons why he holds those opinions.
Basically, we have just always talked about stuff.
Too bad stupidity isn't poisonous.
I don't have kids and haven't read the book, but we learned about teaching critical thinking to kids in developmental psych at schoolteacher school.
Basically the nutshell version is that when they are up to about age 5, they're mostly learning language, so talking to them as much as possible is the key thing. The verbal part of critical thinking is heavily embedded in language, so the more adult-like language they hear, they better off they'll be. 3 year olds learn the question "why" because they find that it provokes adults to give the longest answer (thus learning the most words), not because they really want the reasons for things.
Once they start to hit concrete operative stage around 6-7, then it's important to always model thinking rather than bald assertions. So many times I see the scene in the grocery store where they kid says "I want candy!" and the parent says "no" and the kid says "why" and the parent says "because I said so." Way to go teaching your kid to accept authority blindly.* Even the most basic "because it will rot your teeth" is an improvement, but even better would be "let's think and talk about ways you could have candy."
*(Recognizing that every parent sometimes has to pull rank, but with some parents that's all they ever do.)
By the time they hit abstract reasoning (age 12) and start coming up with totally redonkulous false dilemmas on everything, they'll be well-versed in coming up with reasons and explaining why things are true/important/necessary.
Then, even better, when they get to college, I won't have to teach them that anymore
"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert
I always hated the "because I said so" response. I've made it a point that when I have kids I will give this response as few times as possible.
Back to the origonal post... I have that same book on my amazon wish list and definately plan on reading it when the wife and I do decide to start a family. Other than that, I feel like Textom gave some very good information on child development, and when kids are ready for certain steps.
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
Well, I had/have a problem that falls in this context. I posted about it in my "home" forum at WWGHA, and got some really great replies. Perhaps, if nothing else, there is a lesson for others to be learned from my difficulties. I will also put a link here.
BTW, The problem still exists, it's just on the back burner.
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Ok, I have a problem, and I really need advice.
Please take a few moments and read this, i would appreciate any and all opinions oradvice. I am really lost as to how to proceed here.
I have to give a little back story, so bear with me, please.
Several years ago, about 4, to be exact, my former wife got "saved" and "born again". I supported her as much as my beliefs would allow, and did not complain when she attended church sometimes 3X a week. I did not allow her to force my children to go to church, and indeed, they did not, not even once. She was/is well aware of how I feel,my beliefs, (or lack thereof, in this case) and for the most part, she left me be.
Obviously, we eventually divorced and we are both remarried and get along quite well considering our obvious differences. I am, more and more, becoming quite the "militant Atheist" and she and her new hubby are "devout Xians" She now requires the children to attend church every Sunday and Wednesday that they spend with her. (We have joint custody, week on, week off. We live 2 miles from each other, and between both families, we have 7 kids. Up to this point, things have gone very well, surprisingly so, really.
Ok, one BIG problem between my ex and I was that she would "set me up". In other words, she would make a decision, get the wheels in motion, and then ask me my opinion, or ask me to support her. Example; buying our home. She had already looked at it, made sure she could get the loan, and more or less committed us to it before I had even seen it. Being the passive/aggressive, weak willed fool that I am, i would go along with her, for the most part, for the duration of our 11 years of marital bliss. Thee are countless more examples, and I know that I have been as guilty as her in the failure of our marriage.
Stay with me, I promise I am getting to the point now.
About 3 weeks ago, on an early Sunday afternoon, as I set at Panera Bread, munching on a cobblestone muffin, drinking my coffee, quietly browsing the web, my son calls me. (He is 11)
He tells me he wants to get baptized, says it means alot to him and he needs both his mom and I to give permission. Asks me to support him and attend it.
I did not see this coming. During the weeks he spends with me, he does not mention god, church, jesus, or pray. At all. Nothing. Now for the first 9 years of his lfe, I protected him from the "lambs of gawd". My daughter is fairly indifferent to both of her parents beliefs and just rolls her eyes at both of us if we try to discuss it with her. (she is 13, eye rolling is common) Now, I felt trapped, I didnt know what to say, and it took me about 30 seconds to respond. Finally, I said that Yes, Jake, I will support you and be there, if thats what you really want. I then told his mother "I see what you did there" and told her that I wanted to meet with her, her husband, and the pastor before the baptism, like a few weeks before. (I know the pastor, he is my ex's boss, I respect him, even though he is a total apologist and says that there are no real atheists.)
I am upset. I dont know how to act here. I love my boy. I want him not to be afraid to tell me how he feels, but I hate that he is being led down this path. If I make too much of it, I put him in the middle, feeling like he must choose between mom and dad. At the same time, I feel compelled to try and "undo" what has been done to him. I am a militant atheist I do not believe in being a passive observer. I want to change the world. I read Hitchens with the cover up at Starbucks on Sundays, I complain to the local grocery store that they carry all the books on the bestsellers list except Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennett, yet my 13 year old can go in there anytime and by softcore porn romance novels. Harlequin "Flame" or some such thing, I looked at one once, they are like stories you'd expect to read in hustler. (And no, she hasnt went in and got one, I was just making a point!)
I want to scream at my ex, tell her that what she is doing is child abuse, try to reason with her. Ask her what she thinks she is doing, what does my son gain? I am also upset, because I feel that this just puts a wedge between my son and I, and brings him closer to his stepdad, who is, of course, as devout as my ex. Eventually, I think he will not want to come to my house for our week, and he will want to stay with his mom. I mean, I know how much xians like to bury their heads in the sand, is he gonna be like that? Is there anything can do that doesn't push him away, without totally rolling over and playing dead? What do I say to his mother? I mean, I know what I want to say, but that would do more harm than good.
I am lost, and I hate this.
I had a wonderful discussion with Margaret Downey in which we discussed her philosophy of parenting, and the thing she said that made the most impact on me was something like this. (Paraphrased, of course)
"I've made mistakes, and I've sometimes hurt my children inadvertantly. There have been a lot of times when we were angry with each other, but they always knew that I would never lie to them."
I think that's the bottom line. So many parents pull out the "because I told you so" or teach children something less than the truth because they're afraid of the children's fragile little minds. The world is definitely a nasty place in some ways, but think about it this way. Children who learn what the world really is -- both the good and the bad -- have enough information to begin thinking critically, no matter how young they are.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
A few suggestions.
Talk to your kids as though you are talking to another adult. They can't help but notice when you have one way of talking to them and another way to talk to adults.
Teach by example. Think out loud in their presense. "Now let's see, does that make sense?"
When in their presense, rant a lot about how you admire people who think for themselves. This may be the most important thing. It is a proven fact that boys (I don't know about girls) will unconciencely try to be what their father admires even if they don't like their father. I have seen this happen more than once. This is how much behavior is passed from generation to generation.
Good luck. Our world would be a much better place if we all thought critically. This is true in the realm of politics as well as religion.
Oh. That's really interesting. Thanks, Zan. I don't know as much about child development as I'd like. I'll have to keep my eye out for this. Do you know of a book I could read?
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I really don't know where you would find this. In fact I don't really know where I learned it but, as I said, I have seen it in action many times. Example. My boss couldn't figure out why his son ended up a bar room brawler and in jail. It just happens that my boss was a great admirer of "bad asses".
My partner at work was very proud of the fact that he spent two years in the slammer for drug smuggling. (He is an expert pilot.) He took pride in the fact that if he was flying to the islands or anywhere else he never told his lover when he would be back or where he was going.
One day I asked him, completely out of context, what kind of person his father admired. Well, it turns out that his father had a brother he admired a lot and that brother fitted the wild child description of my partner.
For one who has no formal education, I am a pretty good writer although I have never wanted to write professionally. I grew up listening to my father rave about Winston Churchill's use of language. Go figure.
Interesting food for thought there Zan.
I find myself admiring bad-asses too, I'll have to watch out for that.
My son seems like a very gentle soul though, so I have an inkling that he may be gentle giant up until the time comes to bring out the badass side. He's tough, but allows other kids to beat on him for a while before he sticks up for himself. I find myself wondering if that is how he will turn out as an adult. Obviously I don't want him to be a pushover, but I don't want him to get in trouble being a bully either.
I admire a lot of other types too, like scientists, creative people, fabricators, engineers, and intellectuals in general though. I'm just determined to be 100 times the father to my kids than mine was for me. Shouldn't be that hard to be honest.
Getting off topic a little though.
I am collecting books for them to read when they are older. I want them to have books that they (hopefully) want to read of their own free will, that will give them a big headstart on most other kids, and young adults. The books range from Carl Sagan's The Demon Haunted World, to (young) kid's science books, to fiction by Roald Dahl, and others. I'm also collecting legos for them, because I think they are the best way for kids to start teaching themselves to think mechanically. This doesn't all relate to critical thinking directly, but it will give them a very good intellectual basis to build from.
"They always say the same thing; 'But evolution is only a theory!!' Which is true, I guess, and it's good they say that I think, it gives you hope that they feel the same about the theory of Gravity and they might just float the f**k away."
Sounds like you have the right idea. Just don't slip and mention bad asses admiringly within his earshot.
Your mention of books reminds me of something that probably effected me profoundly when I was a kid. My dad was a vociferous reader and often commented on how good a particular book was. This piqued my interest and I started reading adult fiction at a very early age and enjoyed it. Several times I had to clean up the story for my book reports. I did a report of Robert Wilder's Written on the Wind in the seventh grade.
I think that in more ways than one it gave me a head start.
My suggestion is that if you want your kids to read adult material early, don't tell them about it, just talk about how good it is. Depending on the kid, it might be well to add "but you shouldn't read it".
You mentioned your own dad. Many would say that mine didn't do a very good job. I think he did a good job simply by never saying to me that I was the bane of his existense. In a way I was. He was 40 years old, had no kids and didn't want any. Then my mother became pregnant. In 1936 you didn't have any choices. When I was born he was in a mental institution because of it. So, given the circumstances, I think he did rather well.
I think it is vital that kids look at their parents first of all as people, then as Mom or Dad. They should understand that every person on earth is the way they are because of something. I was one of the few who did simply because my mother told me all about my dad and his family. In his family, many ended up in the home for the very, very nervous. A few others should have. Even as a child I was able to understand that something made him the way he was.
DPM
Just a suggestion:
Teach him algebra! Your children will have a much easier time in school if they learn their addition, subtraction, multiplication and division while they are learning algebra rather than before learning it. And teaching algebra to elementery-age kids is much easier than teaching it to middle-school age kids.