And yet another crap email from my christian grandfather

zack
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And yet another crap email from my christian grandfather

He knows that I'm not a believer but I guess he figures that dumb emails like this make some sort of "ah ha!" point to me or something.

 

>>> A science professor begins his schoolyear with a lecture to the 
>>> students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion."The 
>>> atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then >>> asks  
>>> one of his new students to stand. 
>>> 
>>> "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?" 
>>>   
>>> "Yes sir," the student says. 
>>>   
>>> "So you believe in God?"  
>>> 
>>> "Absolutely." 
>>> 
>>> "Is God good?" 
>>> 
>>> "Sure! God's good."  
>>>   
>>> "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?" 
>>>   
>>> "Yes." 
>>>   
>>> "Are you good or evil?" 
>>>   
>>> "The Bible says I'm evil."  
>>>   
>>> The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a  
>>> moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person >>> overhere  
>>> and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would >>> youtry?"  
>>> 
>>> "Yes sir, I would."  
>>>   
>>> "So you're good...!"  
>>>   
>>> "I wouldn't say that."  
>>>   
>>> "But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if >>> youcould.  
>>> Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."  
>>> 
>>> The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He >>> doesn't,  
>>> does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though >>> he  
>>> prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you 
>>> answer that one?" 
>>> 
>>> The student remains silent.  
>>> 
>>> "No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip ofwater  
>>> from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 
>>> 
>>> "Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"  
>>> 
>>> "Er...yes," the student says.  
>>> 
>>> "Is Satan good?"  
>>> 
>>> The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."  
>>> 
>>> "Then where does Satan come from?" 
>>> 
>>> The student falters. "From God"  
>>> 
>>> "That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there >>> evil in  
>>> this world?" 
>>> 
>>> "Yes, sir." 
>>> 
>>> "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything,correct?"  
>>> 
>>> "Yes."  
>>> 
>>> "So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If Godcreated  
>>> everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according >>> to 
>>> the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil." 
>>> 
>>> Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality?  
>>> Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this 
>>> world?" 
>>> 
>>> The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."  
>>> 
>>> "So who created them?"  
>>> 
>>> The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his  
>>> question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the  
>>> lecturer breaks away to face in front of the classroom. The class is 
>>> mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you  
>>> believe in Jesus Christ, son?" 
>>> 
>>> The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, Ido."  
>>> 
>>> The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use >>> to 
>>> identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seenJesus?" 
>>> 
>>> "No sir. I've never seen Him."  
>>> 
>>> "Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"  
>>> 
>>> "No, sir, I have not." 
>>> 
>>> "Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelled >>> yourJesus?  
>>> Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or Go d for 
>>> that matter?" 
>>> 
>>> "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't. 
>>> 
>>> "Yet you still believe in him?" 
>>> 
>>> "Yes."  
>>> 
>>> "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable >>> protocol,  
>>> science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"  
>>> 
>>> "Nothing," the student replies. "I only have myfaith."  
>>> 
>>> "Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem >>> science  
>>> has with God. There is no evidence, only faith." 
>>>   
>>> The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of >>> his  
>>> own. "Professor, is there such a thing as heat?" 
>>> 
>>> "Yes," the professor replies. "There' s heat."  
>>> 
>>> "And is there such a thing as cold?"  
>>> 
>>> "Yes, son, there's cold too." 
>>> 
>>> "No sir, there isn't."  
>>> 
>>> The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The >>> room  
>>> suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can  
>>> have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited 
>>> heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have >>> anything  
>>> called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no  
>>> heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing >>> as  
>>> cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 
>>> degrees." 
>>> 
>>> "Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or >>> transmits  
>>> energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit >>> energy.  
>>> Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, >>> cold 
>>> is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot >>> measure  
>>> cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. >>> Cold 
>>> is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it." 
>>> 
>>> Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,  
>>> sounding like a hammer. 
>>> 
>>> "What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing asdarkness?" 
>>> 
>>> "Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is nightif it 
>>> isn't darkness?" 
>>> 
>>> "You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the >>> absence 
>>> of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, 
>>> flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing >>> and  
>>> it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define >>> the  
>>> word." 
>>> 
>>> "In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make  
>>> darkness darker, wouldn't you?" 
>>> 
>>> The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This >>> will  
>>> be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"  
>>> 
>>> "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawedto  
>>> start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed." 
>>> 
>>> The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? >>> Can  
>>> you explain how?" 
>>> 
>>> "You are working on the premise of duality," the student >>> explains."You  
>>> argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a >>> bad  
>>> God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, >>> something  
>>> we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought." 
>>> 
>>> "It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less >>> fully 
>>> understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be 
>>> ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. 
>>> Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it." 
>>> 
>>> "Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they >>> evolved  
>>> from a monkey? 
>>> 
>>> "If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, youngman,  
>>> yes, of course I do." 
>>> 
>>> "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?" 
>>> 
>>> The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes 
>>> where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed. 
>>> 
>>> "Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and  
>>> cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you >>> not  
>>> teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a 
>>> preacher?" 
>>> 
>>> The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the >>> commotion  
>>> has subsided. 
>>> 
>>> "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, >>> let  
>>> me give you an example of what I mean." 
>>> 
>>> The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who >>> has 
>>> ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out intolaughter. 
>>> 
>>> "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt >>> the 
>>> professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No one 
>>> appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of  
>>> empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have >>> no  
>>> brain - with all due respect, sir." 
>>> 
>>> "So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your >>> lectures,  
>>> sir?" 
>>> 
>>> Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his 
>>> face unreadable. 
>>> 
>>> Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess  
>>> you'll have to take them on faith." 
>>> 
>>> "Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists >>> with  
>>> life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as >>> evil?"  
>>> 
>>> Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see >>> it 
>>> everyday. It is in th e daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It >>> is 
>>> in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. >>> These  
>>> manifestations are nothing else but evil." 
>>> 
>>>   
>>> To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least >>> it  
>>> does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is  
>>> just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe >>> the  
>>> absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what 
>>> happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's  
>>> like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that 
>>> comes when there is no light." 
>>> 
>>> The professor sat down.

 

I sent him Kelly's newest blog post, No Faith in Science, as a reply. Any thoughts on this are more than welcome. Smiling 

“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” - Voltaire


qbg
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Start with Debunking an

zack
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You sir, are awesome.

You sir, are awesome. Smiling

 

Thanks comrade. 


Zombie
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I think this one was on

I think this one was on snopes.com?


kryters
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Oh yeah?   And I thought

Oh yeah?

 

And I thought God was everywhere... 


Watcher
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I would reply like this to

I would reply like this to the idea of evil being a lack of good.

A lack of good is a lack of god, correct?

So I would compare it to this example:

If your neighbors starved and you had the ability to give them food, but didn't, would that be evil?

I would think yes.

So if evil is the absense of good/god, then isn't god being evil by not correcting that absense?

Yes.

IE: god does evil.

Actually why the heck do us humans hold ourselves to a more moral code than god?

The concept of Hell clearly shows that this all-powerful god is petty and mean-spirited to the utmost extreme. 

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


Eight Foot Manchild
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A "lack of good" would be

A "lack of good" would be indifference, not evil.


Nero
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Okay. Here's what you must

Okay. Here's what you must do to handle your grandfather. Go to Christmas dinner and wait for everyone to be seated. Then, you yell at the old man and tell him he's full of shit. After that, scissor kick him to the back of his head. That'll teach him some respect, and if it doesn't, it'll cave in his egg-shell skull.

Whichever way it goes, just remind him that you're going to spend his money when he's dead and that the only time you think of him is when you're on the shitter.

I'm pretty sure he'll repent after all of that.  Good luck!

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


Watcher
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Eight Foot Manchild

Eight Foot Manchild wrote:
A "lack of good" would be indifference, not evil.

Indifference is a quality of evil.  If I sit back and watch a 10 year old burn a 6 month old baby to death because I'm indifferent to the baby's suffering/life/death, you would scream that I'm evil.

Allowing evil to perpetuate when you can easily stop it is evil. 

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


JeremiahSmith
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Watcher wrote: Eight Foot

Watcher wrote:

Eight Foot Manchild wrote:
A "lack of good" would be indifference, not evil.

Indifference is a quality of evil. If I sit back and watch a 10 year old burn a 6 month old baby to death because I'm indifferent to the baby's suffering/life/death, you would scream that I'm evil.

Allowing evil to perpetuate when you can easily stop it is evil.

 

Indifference that affects no one is neither good nor evil, though. It is the absence of both. 

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


I AM GOD AS YOU
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  wow op , great read

  wow op , great read guys. yeah todangst rocks loud, wish he would write a "10 commandments to freedom" .... ((( help help ....

 


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JeremiahSmith

JeremiahSmith wrote:

Indifference that affects no one is neither good nor evil, though. It is the absence of both.

I agree.  Therefore, since god allowing evil to pervade humanity by his absence will affect individuals, then it would be evil. 

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


Eight Foot Manchild
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Watcher wrote: Eight Foot

Watcher wrote:

Eight Foot Manchild wrote:
A "lack of good" would be indifference, not evil.

Indifference is a quality of evil. If I sit back and watch a 10 year old burn a 6 month old baby to death because I'm indifferent to the baby's suffering/life/death, you would scream that I'm evil.

Allowing evil to perpetuate when you can easily stop it is evil.

That would be inaction, not indifference. Small difference, but a crucial one.

Whatever. It's still a shitty e-mail. 


jcgadfly
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Eight Foot Manchild

Eight Foot Manchild wrote:
Watcher wrote:

Eight Foot Manchild wrote:
A "lack of good" would be indifference, not evil.

Indifference is a quality of evil. If I sit back and watch a 10 year old burn a 6 month old baby to death because I'm indifferent to the baby's suffering/life/death, you would scream that I'm evil.

Allowing evil to perpetuate when you can easily stop it is evil.

That would be inaction, not indifference. Small difference, but a crucial one.

Whatever. It's still a shitty e-mail. 

Not legally (thanks be to the non-deity). It falls under the category of "depraved indifference to human life" 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


zack
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Nero wrote: Okay. Here's

Nero wrote:

Okay. Here's what you must do to handle your grandfather. Go to Christmas dinner and wait for everyone to be seated. Then, you yell at the old man and tell him he's full of shit. After that, scissor kick him to the back of his head. That'll teach him some respect, and if it doesn't, it'll cave in his egg-shell skull.

Whichever way it goes, just remind him that you're going to spend his money when he's dead and that the only time you think of him is when you're on the shitter.

I'm pretty sure he'll repent after all of that. Good luck!

 

AWESOME. Haha.

I've still not gotten a response... what a suprise, I know.

“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” - Voltaire