Ethical Dilemma
Offline Ok, guys, I need your thoughts on this one. I got caught off guard by this.
As most of you probably know I recently purchased an Acheulean handaxe made by a Homo Erectus.
I contacted a local professor at the university I work at who is an athropology major who specializes in hominins to inspect the handaxe.
He responded that he had an ethical problem with the private purchase and ownership of ancient human artifacts.
I tried to meet him half way by deciding to donate my handaxe to a museum later in life. Perhaps even editing my will in order to ensure it goes to a museum in case of a sudden premature death.
Apparently this was not good enough for him either.
I mean he's got a point and I understand why he thinks this, but don't you think agreeing to pass it off eventually to a museum would be ethically appeasing?
Am I wrong in buying this?
As a purchaser do I encourage people to sell these artifacts where most of them will not end up in museums?
Did I screw up?
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
- Login to post comments
I don't think it is wrong to purchase and own anything from the past, as long as it is not stolen from a museum or something like that (IE the mona lisa). I think the professor is entitled to his opinion and does not have to examine it for you. However, since it is not against the law to own such artifacts, he is not within his rights to try and moralize you. If there is not another professor that can help you then perhaps you could see if the state college in the bordering town might have someone qualified to examine it (though not likely).
If I understand correctly, there are quite a few of these hand axes. Imagine if every tiny little artifact of human history was stored in museums. They would end up being junk collections!
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
Thanks Josh.
There have been literally thousands of these handaxes found. Often hundreds of them altogether. On top of that, my particular item is not noteworthy compared to other Acheulean handaxes.
The response just caught me off guard.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
So he thinks it is unethical to own a rock that was created by a Homo Erectus because someone could learn something from it elsewhere? I can't see any ethical issues here at all. It's not like the person you bought it from beat up or killed the owner... Also, by you owning it I'm sure that every time you have the chance you are going to educate somone with it or about it. You earned the money honestly, your buying it might fund further scientific discoveries. I think it's really cool that you own the axe + when I saw that you were buying one I researched it and learned something myself.
Thats cute.
I take issue with it when it's something of historical significance that we can learn from. Odds are we can't learn anything from the axe if there are many around.
I did find it sad to see ancient documents such as the gospel of judas that got damaged over time prior to it getting well examined due to private ownership.
Perhaps you could simply put your handaxe back into the ground, to let someone else rediscover it and put it into a museum, with the professor's guiding eye helping you out.
I think it would really help you two bury the hatchet.
Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.
The belief that all historical artifacts belong to the public is debatable, and I don't see any pressing reason why you would need to fall on one side or another. To me, this is considerably different than hording something that could otherwise advance science in ways that nothing else, or very few other things could.
If it makes you feel better, why don't you put it on temporary loan to a university until they can decide whether or not they can learn anything significant from it? I have a suspicion they'll say it will just add to the existing collection.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I could understood him if it was really rare artefact worth of examine by scientists or exposing in museum.
Ignore his request as long you don't find Ark of Covenant.
Ecrasez l'infame!
Knock off his Stetson, and beat him with his own bull whip for being a pedantic cry-baby who overstates his academic interest in common artifacts.
It seems like people who actually work in the field of digging up and studying old stuff believe they should be the only people doing it. It's my understanding that most places have laws in place to protect all that old treasure. They seem to think that only they have a true appreciation for this old stuff and are kinda greedy. I could understand finding something and giving them a shot at it but they shouldn't have rights to everything. They just shouldn't.
I intend to get some of that old stuff myself when I find enough money in my wallet one day. I'm more interested in some of the replica prehistorical human skulls though.
The only problem is you either have to really know your stuff so you can evaluate your new treasure. Or trust the company selling it to you. I don't think you will have much luck getting any assistance for a professional unless they are a personal friend.
R/
Lenny
ww.kaosium.org
Respectfully,
Lenny
"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush
Subdi, have you checked out http://www.boneclones.com/? They have some wonderful replica Homo etc skulls as well as a full skeleton replica of Lucy among others.
I bought a Homo Heidelbergensis skull replica. The "Broken Hill" skull. http://www.boneclones.com/BH-004.htm
I absolutely love it! I have both my axe and skull sitting side by side on my desk. Homo Heidelbergensis made and used Aucheulean handaxes as well.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
I had to get a towel to wipe up all the drool. I didn't know about that site. I had looked at another one that I can't recall the name of now but yours is way better. My wife will not be happy that you shared this information with me.
Thanks very much Mr. Watcher.
R/
Lenny
www.kaosium.org
Respectfully,
Lenny
"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush
have you ever thought that perhaps the professor was just jealous you had the handaxe? i assume it wasn't cheap.
i suppose we could give him the benefit of the doubt - perhaps he doesn't know there are thoisands out there. but next time you see this professor i would ask him what he would think of a 6 year old that found the handaxe in her backyard and was using it as a personal toy.
Of course the professor was within his rights to express his opinion, which might have included language which could be considered moralizing. It doesn't make his position the more correct one.
Remember, even jerks have the right to speak their minds. Not that I'm saying the professor is a jerk, but you get my drift.
Susan
Ok, I'll play devil's advocate here. I was an anthropology minor in college. The reason the professor has a problem with it is simple. Many of the artifacts that are for sale out there today have been taken from research sites or actually plundered from closed privately owned sites. One of my professors actually tracked many ebay and auction companies to see if any of the artifacts from her sites showed up there, more than once she had to request items back because people were trying to sell them with her ID tags still in place.
I can see their point when it comes to some of these sites too. One professor had to chase a guy with a back-hoe of the site after he had already ruined several artifacts. They generally don't have a problem with the ownership of the objects, just with how they are obtained and whether or not they have been properly documented.
No Gods, Know Peace.
Well I can't be absolutely sure, but Paleo Direct seems legit.
Paleo Direct's practice of avoiding such "blind buying" ensures what you are buying does NOT come with any "strings attached". If a fossil dealer does not intimately know the source of their fossils, there is no way to ensure, the fossils were legally obtained, not stolen from protected sites, government property or from another individual!
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
Yeah, but you have to look at the monetary incentive for these guys to lie about where they get them. I'm not saying your hand-axe was stolen, but antiquities dealers have been known to bend the truth to suit them. Personally I have no problem with people owning artifacts or other pieces of history as long as they are diligent in not buying from some scum-bag who just robbed a site and kicked a kitten to get it. Some professors argued that buying any artifacts would reinforce the market even when legitimately purchased, but I don't hold to that. I think it's better to do as much as you can to ensure that you don't buy stolen stuff, then to force the whole enterprise underground where it will happen anyway.
No Gods, Know Peace.
Groan!
The state should have the right to compulsory purchase any artifacts of significant historical interest (through I'm sure you could guess I would say that).
If its just an nice find but not particuarly rare then enjoy.
Pretty sure most countries have laws regarding this
I think the reason the prof is upset is that the buying and selling of ancient artifacts creates a market for such items. This drives up the cost of items and forces academia to spend much more money on items. It also increases the amount of forgeries and fake replicas that they have to sort through when they want to acquire an object.
Personally, I see no reason to own the hand axe in the first place since I doubt your intended use is as a hand axe. And since you say that there are thousands of these around, it is hardly likely to go up in value.
I took the Blasphemy Challenge! How about you?