blah blah blah bah blah

pnutz
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blah blah blah bah blah

 from here on out this is my opinon. if you get angered by my words than oh wells.

===================================================================== 

 

okkk atheistssss you guys are just as retarded as blinded religious zealots. to pronounce disbelief on a subject you obviously do not know the truth/falseness in the first place is admitting ignorance.

there is a possibility that a deity/god/spirit/w.e might exist as is everything else in our universe in which we do not understand.

science is the how. religion is the why. the smart individuals on both sides understand each other. the idiots become atheists. or suicide bombers. and such.

 thx for your time.

 

sincerely,

a passing agnostic.


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So you believe in the

So you believe in the deity/god/spirit, agnostic theist?

You must, because you came in attacking and asserting w/o bringing anything worthy of discussion to the table.

Look, you need the God, great. I don't.  

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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Firstly, you should make at

Firstly, you should make at least a passing effort towards lucid expression. Even on an internet forum, you should do your interlocutors the decency of writing coherent sentences with proper spelling and grammar. You will note that I take the time to do just that, with no exception.

Quote:

  to pronounce disbelief on a subject you obviously do not know the truth/falseness in the first place is admitting ignorance.

Well, here you are actually making a Strawman argument which demonstrates an inability to distinguish between two classifications of "atheist" normally employed. For one, you are commiting an ad ignorantium fallacy by suggesting something being proclaimed by those who you are arguing against that is not actually bing proclaimed. A strong atheist does not accept your epistemological assertion. The word "agnostic" is etymologically derived (as it was coined by TH Huxley) from gnosis. The agnostic hence believes that no knowledge is possible that would alter any open possibility of stance towards the proposition God Exists. Yet this doctrine is remarkably odd. Indeed, I would go so far as to suggest it is borderline absurd. Nonetheless, the strong atheist would hold deductive arguments against such a proposition are indeed possible.

On the other hand the weak atheist simply acknowledges tha, being no such thing as a burden of disproof, no positive affirmation of any proposition can be accepted without sufficient reason, and so no positive affirmation is given. The weak atheist does not give a direct negative affirmation as that would be an ad ignorantium fallacy, which is double-edged:

X is true because X has not been proven false 

or, the latter being under discussion:

X is false because it hasn't been proven true.

This distinction being kept in mind, the latter stance holds for the bulk of people on this board, and so you are simply attacking a strawman that you invented.

Obviously a reductio ad absurdum can be derived quite swiftly from pure agnosticism unless one was willing to admit that one could hold pure agnosticism on all possible propositions for which there was no evidence yet simultaneously none to the contrary, which includes every proposition from Russell's Teapot ad infinitum. Unless you bite this bullet, you must admit that your stance is reduced to the absurd quite quickly.

 

Quote:

science is the how. religion is the why

This epistemological assertion is vapid. Science has established itself methodologically. Any epistemological assertion pertaining to any "why" claims must also have an epistemic backing. We cannot simply have a field dedicated to "why" questions solely on virtue of the idea that we think we need one, without proper epistemic justification, there is no reason whatsoever to accept your proposition. Science is methodologically well established and useful. It has a method. Epistemological claims about "why", better known as teleology, do not. And so, this assertion of yours is simply nonsense. There is no reason to hold it. There is no reason to hold that any epistemological method has ever established any way to glean possible truths about teleology, or "why". So, your claim, analogous to NOMA, is not valid. We cannot have a field of discourse purported to gleaning teleological truths solely because we think we need one. 

Quote:

  the idiots become atheists

This virulence in your tone shows you probably lack the intelligence to have proper discussion on this matter anyway.

Quote:

  thx for your time.

When you respond, or rather, if you respond, please write in English.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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deludedgod wrote: Firstly,

deludedgod wrote:

Firstly, you should make at least a passing effort towards lucid expression. Even on an internet forum, you should do your interlocutors the decency of writing coherent sentences with proper spelling and grammar. You will note that I take the time to do just that, with no exception.

Quote:

to pronounce disbelief on a subject you obviously do not know the truth/falseness in the first place is admitting ignorance.

Well, here you are actually making a Strawman argument which demonstrates an inability to distinguish between two classifications of "atheist" normally employed. For one, you are commiting an ad ignorantium fallacy by suggesting something being proclaimed by those who you are arguing against that is not actually bing proclaimed. A strong atheist does not accept your epistemological assertion. The word "agnostic" is etymologically derived (as it was coined by TH Huxley) from gnosis. The agnostic hence believes that no knowledge is possible that would alter any open possibility of stance towards the proposition God Exists. Yet this doctrine is remarkably odd. Indeed, I would go so far as to suggest it is borderline absurd. Nonetheless, the strong atheist would hold deductive arguments against such a proposition are indeed possible.

On the other hand the weak atheist simply acknowledges tha, being no such thing as a burden of disproof, no positive affirmation of any proposition can be accepted without sufficient reason, and so no positive affirmation is given. The weak atheist does not give a direct negative affirmation as that would be an ad ignorantium fallacy, which is double-edged:

X is true because X has not been proven false

or, the latter being under discussion:

X is false because it hasn't been proven true.

This distinction being kept in mind, the latter stance holds for the bulk of people on this board, and so you are simply attacking a strawman that you invented.

Obviously a reductio ad absurdum can be derived quite swiftly from pure agnosticism unless one was willing to admit that one could hold pure agnosticism on all possible propositions for which there was no evidence yet simultaneously none to the contrary, which includes every proposition from Russell's Teapot ad infinitum. Unless you bite this bullet, you must admit that your stance is reduced to the absurd quite quickly.

Quote:

science is the how. religion is the why

This epistemological assertion is vapid. Science has established itself methodologically. Any epistemological assertion pertaining to any "why" claims must also have an epistemic backing. We cannot simply have a field dedicated to "why" questions solely on virtue of the idea that we think we need one, without proper epistemic justification, there is no reason whatsoever to accept your proposition. Science is methodologically well established and useful. It has a method. Epistemological claims about "why", better known as teleology, do not. And so, this assertion of yours is simply nonsense. There is no reason to hold it. There is no reason to hold that any epistemological method has ever established any way to glean possible truths about teleology, or "why". So, your claim, analogous to NOMA, is not valid. We cannot have a field of discourse purported to gleaning teleological truths solely because we think we need one.

Quote:

the idiots become atheists

This virulence in your tone shows you probably lack the intelligence to have proper discussion on this matter anyway.

Quote:

thx for your time.

When you respond, or rather, if you respond, please write in English.

I didn't have that much of a problem understanding it, DG. Then again, I deal with my share of college freshmen. Smiling 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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lol, your my hero DG. How

lol, your my hero DG. How do you keep going? I get so frustrated with these people and I haven't even been posting for long. I do appreciate your posts and have learned a tremendous amount from you. Sorry for the spam.

Thats cute.


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Quote:

Quote:
okkk atheistssss you guys are just as retarded as blinded religious zealots.

Why are we blind? because we don't believe in outrageous things that are asserted without evidence? because we evaluate each claim of a god and systematically find inconsistencies and or logical errors and flaws with each one, or finding mutually exclusive properties in what we are presented with as a god (mutually exclusive as in something like a cubic sphere or 3 sided square)

Quote:

to pronounce disbelief on a subject you obviously do not know the truth/falseness in the first place is admitting ignorance.

You make the presumption that all the atheists here were never religious to begin with. Many here used to be christian including myself but decided that what they were following was bullshit after opening our eyes to the glaring contradictions portrayed by the religious and the holy books of each respective religion or actually researching the belief system.

Quote:
there is a possibility that a deity/god/spirit/w.e might exist as is everything else in our universe in which we do not understand.

I fully admit that possibility although the likelihood of it is infinitesimally small. to think that any possible deity actually gives half a horse shit about our day to day lives and what we do or think is an incredibly egotistical or arrogant statement and is not backed up by solid reasoning (although you have not claimed this, I thought I wopuld throw it in for good measure). perhaps there is a deity out there that gets pissed off by the religious and people who believe without evidence or in spite of contradictory evidence.

Quote:
science is the how. religion is the why.

Why do we need a why? religion and science are at complete odds where religion is an answer by withdrawing the question and science is a continual effort as to finding out how something works or why something does what it does. So far as I have seen (and I have seen a fair few), all religions are simply bunk, counter productive to society and anti intellectual. they promote mental slavery, suppression of normal human nature, a disdain for life and willful ignorance.

all in all, your post was bullshit but at least you had better grammar than most who come here spouting the same shit.

edit: damn you guys are good at ninja posting, there were no replies when I started.


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Quote: How do you keep

Quote:

How do you keep going?

There are times when I ask myself the same question. It's not so much the refutation part that is difficult to produce. That part comes without effort. It is simply comprehending the scale of ridiculous irrationality that has the occasional tendancy to fill me with despair. It is...frustrating, and here I simply chose the most neutral word to express my feelings I could find.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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yeah its true agnostics

yeah its true agnostics believe that no knowledge can prove the existance of god since the affirmation of god himself is imposible. but what is so odd with my stance? i do not side with the theists nor the atheists. i side with the rational people. such as the smart theists who are not religious because they truly believe in every word of the bible. but they believe in god in order to find their reason of existance.  and smart scientists who understand that science can never theorize on our souls.

 

i am making no strawman argument, the inspiration for my post came from the blasphemy challenge i dont know any of the members on this board. all i know is that the challenge came from somebody from this site. or the other one. so decided to post w/e i wanted towards whoever posted the blasphemy challenge. i guess. 

 

 and why must you place religion in a category you term "field".  religion is part of human culture, its our heritage and shouldnt be shunned but it should be cared for and respected. science should not replace religion because it will never be able to tell us the meaning of spiritual existance. but that does not matter to you since you don't believe in anything spiritual. so you will write this off as another "it has no basis, no reasoning, it should die!".

 

 i wont write in complete sentences or use big fancy city folk words. it takes away from my post. and the internet. which is awesome.


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what you wrote: pnutz

what you wrote: 

pnutz wrote:

yeah its true agnostics believe that no knowledge can prove the existance of god since the affirmation of god himself is imposible. but what is so odd with my stance? i do not side with the theists nor the atheists. i side with the rational people. such as the smart theists who are not religious because they truly believe in every word of the bible. but they believe in god in order to find their reason of existance.  and smart scientists who understand that science can never theorize on our souls.

 

i am making no strawman argument, the inspiration for my post came from the blasphemy challenge i dont know any of the members on this board. all i know is that the challenge came from somebody from this site. or the other one. so decided to post w/e i wanted towards whoever posted the blasphemy challenge. i guess. 

 

 and why must you place religion in a category you term "field".  religion is part of human culture, its our heritage and shouldnt be shunned but it should be cared for and respected. science should not replace religion because it will never be able to tell us the meaning of spiritual existance. but that does not matter to you since you don't believe in anything spiritual. so you will write this off as another "it has no basis, no reasoning, it should die!".

 

 i wont write in complete sentences or use big fancy city folk words. it takes away from my post. and the internet. which is awesome.

what i read: 

blah blah blah blah blah...FISH 

 

I care for and respect the oldest and most important parts of human culture and our unquestionable heritage:

WAR

VIOLENCE 

RAPE

GENOCIDE

SLAVERY

and DEATH 

Later, AdamTM
- I'm the guy that gets called when the other guy is not around-
- I didnt feel the love! ...Wait...was that something? ...no, no its gone -
TWATWAFFLE FOREVER


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pnutz wrote: yeah its true

pnutz wrote:

yeah its true agnostics believe that no knowledge can prove the existance of god since the affirmation of god himself is imposible. but what is so odd with my stance? i do not side with the theists nor the atheists. i side with the rational people. such as the smart theists who are not religious because they truly believe in every word of the bible. but they believe in god in order to find their reason of existance. and smart scientists who understand that science can never theorize on our souls.

 

i am making no strawman argument, the inspiration for my post came from the blasphemy challenge i dont know any of the members on this board. all i know is that the challenge came from somebody from this site. or the other one. so decided to post w/e i wanted towards whoever posted the blasphemy challenge. i guess.

 

and why must you place religion in a category you term "field". religion is part of human culture, its our heritage and shouldnt be shunned but it should be cared for and respected. science should not replace religion because it will never be able to tell us the meaning of spiritual existance. but that does not matter to you since you don't believe in anything spiritual. so you will write this off as another "it has no basis, no reasoning, it should die!".

 

i wont write in complete sentences or use big fancy city folk words. it takes away from my post. and the internet. which is awesome.

A true middle of the roader, eh?

"There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow lines and dead armadilloes" - Jim Hightower 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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pnutz wrote: i wont write

pnutz wrote:
i wont write in complete sentences or use big fancy city folk words. it takes away from my post. and the internet. which is awesome.

 

Since when does being incoherent add to an idea. Oh, wait, only when the idea is incoherent. The only time being incoherent will help you is when your idea is even less coherent and needs to be masked by confusion. Otherwise known to people like you as "mystery" wooooooooo 

Thats cute.


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pnutz wrote: from here on

pnutz wrote:

from here on out this is my opinon. if you get angered by my words than oh wells.

=====================================================================

 

okkk atheistssss you guys are just as retarded as blinded religious zealots. to pronounce disbelief on a subject you obviously do not know the truth/falseness in the first place is admitting ignorance.

there is a possibility that a deity/god/spirit/w.e might exist as is everything else in our universe in which we do not understand.

Indeed. I do not doubt that many people here would disagree.

There is a possability that there is a god. (well there isn't for some Gods but for some there is a possability) 

Quote:
science is the how.

Errr yes 

Quote:
religion is the why.

What? I don't understand you will have to qualify that statement. 

Quote:
the smart individuals on both sides understand each other. the idiots become atheists. or suicide bombers. and such.

I don't think you actually understand what atheism actually is. 

Quote:
thx for your time.

 

sincerely,

a passing agnostic.

I'm an agnostic too. As well as an atheist. The two positions are not in anyway incompatible. I think you need to read up a bit on what atheism and agnosticism actually mean. When you have educated yourself you my reply here and applogise for your stupidity.

 


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Quote: but what is so odd

Quote:

but what is so odd with my stance? 

It is odd because in Philosophy, there is discourse on matters all the time that cannot be touched by scientific empericism because they do not have the methods to do so. You seem to to be making a fallacy of bifurcation. You are suggesting that if a scientific empericism cannot gain knowledge of it, so such knowledge cannot be gained by any method. Ironically, these are the same people that accuse us of scientism! Using an analytical philosophical method, it is perfectly possible and acceptable to critique the concept of the Existence of God. The idea that this concept is forever shut from reasoned discourse is surely one which was made up by those who realized it was nonsense but wished to keep it in place.

There is no reason that religious metaphysical claims cannot be investigated by philosophical argument, suggesting otherwise would indicate you are trying to defend rather idiotic propositions.

Quote:

 ut they believe in god in order to find their reason of existance.

I am unsure (a) what this even means and how (b) that a concept provides reason for our existence should have any impact on its truth value. This is an argument from the consequences, and does not have any reflection on its merit.

Quote:

 nd smart scientists who understand that science can never theorize on our souls.

Firstly, the concept of a "soul" is ontologically meaningless so I won't even bother to discuss that unless you wish to give it clarification. At present you seem to be thriving on meaningless or vague terms such as "higher power" and this is unacceptable in philosophical discourse. Second, scientific empericism does have claims in this regard, since the claims you reference, such as those of the soul, make comments about the nature of the mind, which is indeed possible to be investigated using the scientific method, although again philosophy also holds a strong arm in areas that science finds difficult because of method. Neuroscience is a very successful field with a great deal of explanatory power. I do sometimes regret that I did not enter the field, although I theoretically could have if I wished.

Quote:

  am making no strawman argument

Yes you are. You are attacking propositions that people do not hold. 

You obviously do not know what "strawman" means.

Quote:

eligion is part of human culture, its our heritage and shouldnt be shunned but it should be cared for and respected.

Why? Religion makes strong metaphysical truth claims. But it has no method nor propositions for how to glean truth values for these assertions. How can one then respect it? I couldn't care less if it is part of our "heritage". All I care about is how its knowledge claims can be evaluated.

Quote:

science should not replace religion because it will never be able to tell us the meaning of spiritual existance.

Firstly, the concept of "science replacing religion" is simply incoherent. Science is a method, a strong arm for investigating the emprical world. Religions can make specific empirical claims which usually later get refuted by this method. Even if they didn't, you are committing a category error by making the implicit assumption that people suggest this. It would be rather like saying "Razor blades should not be replaced with apples". It is a meaningless sentence. Replace implies "take over a prior function". Religion never had any function. Ever. This is simply because a proper philosophical method will show the bulk of its knowledge claims are vapid, and a great deal more still can be outright refuted since they are empirical claims and therefore can be investigated by science, ie an empirical method. You might as well just admit that you are arguing, and losing, in trying to show that religious propositions should be shielded from reasoned discourse because they make people feel good, and simultaneously arguing that no knowledge can ever be gained which would change the truth values we can assign to their claims. The latter is simply nonsense of the highest order.

Quote:

 but that does not matter to you since you don't believe in anything spiritual.

Of course not. I am a physicalist. I hold ultimately there is only one ontological category and everything else from whence derives. Second, the word "spiritual" is confusing, meaningless, and vague. It has no ontological category, it does not describe entities or a bundle of properties. People who claim to believe in something spiritual simply believe in a word, a name, with its rather odious connotations of somehow having intrinstic superiority attached to it as if "not believing in anything spiritual" was somehow an insult. I tend to view such statements the same way I would view the statement "he doesn't believe in the realm of the snork".

Quote:

i wont write in complete sentences

Then why should I read and respond?

Quote:

 or use big fancy city folk words

Here you are simply perpetuating the odious stereotype that urban dwellers are more intelligent than their counterparts in non-urban areas.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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Visual_Paradox
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"yeah its true agnostics

"yeah its true agnostics believe that no knowledge can prove the existance of god since the affirmation of god himself is imposible."

Any agnostic who believes that is an atheist. Theism is the position of affirmation and atheism is the not-theism position.

"but what is so odd with my stance? i do not side with the theists nor the atheists."

What's odd about a painting that sides with neither the symmetrical nor asymmetrical? A day that is neither typical nor atypical? I'll let you decide.

"i side with the rational people. such as the smart theists who are not religious because they truly believe in every word of the bible. but they believe in god in order to find their reason of existance. and smart scientists who understand that science can never theorize on our souls."

You're assuming God-belief provides purpose and assuming souls exist—both propositions are of dubious merit.

"i am making no strawman argument, the inspiration for my post came from the blasphemy challenge i dont know any of the members on this board. all i know is that the challenge came from somebody from this site. or the other one. so decided to post w/e i wanted towards whoever posted the blasphemy challenge. i guess."

You seem to be creating a false dichotomy by arguing that ignorance on the origin of the cosmos makes it illogical to say Yahweh doesn't exist. Surely you realize that Yahweh is not the only god concept, right? If I look at a crime scene I might not know the exact origin of the glass on the floor but I can infer from the information available where the glass didn't come from. There's nothing illogical about that.

"and why must you place religion in a category you term 'field'."

Field is a sociological term for describing a sphere of activity, interests, and so on.

"religion is part of human culture, its our heritage and shouldnt be shunned but it should be cared for and respected."

Religion may have been part of human culture but it should be removed. Religion has never been a heritage. Do you know what heritage means? Further, you should provide the reason for people to respect religion. When tribal people in the Amazon dance around a snake totem, should I respect their nonsense? If so, why? If not, why are western religions any different? The only significant difference between them as that the idols of the western religions are invisible and the religious people don't tend to dance as often. They are inferior, in those respects.

"science should not replace religion because it will never be able to tell us the meaning of spiritual existance. but that does not matter to you since you don't believe in anything spiritual. so you will write this off as another 'it has no basis, no reasoning, it should die!'."

Nobody is suggesting that science replace religion. They argue that philosophy should replace it. In other words, thoughtlessness should be replaced with thoughtfulness and theocratic pride and arrogance should be replaced with intellectual humility.

"i wont write in complete sentences or use big fancy city folk words."

I live in London, Kentucky. I write and speak properly. Why? I'm not an imbecile.

Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!


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You forget the fact that

You forget the fact that there would be no athiests without theists. One does not have to take the middle ground just because someone else makes a claim. Is it possible that my gf is cheating on me?? Yes it is possible. However, I have not seen any evidence to suggest so, therefore there is no good reason to waste my time in believing so.

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


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pnutz wrote: okkk

pnutz wrote:

okkk atheistssss you guys are just as retarded as blinded religious zealots. to pronounce disbelief on a subject you obviously do not know the truth/falseness in the first place is admitting ignorance.

there is a possibility that a deity/god/spirit/w.e might exist as is everything else in our universe in which we do not understand.

science is the how. religion is the why. the smart individuals on both sides understand each other. the idiots become atheists. or suicide bombers. and such.

thx for your time.

Wow, I thought I had atrocious spelling and grammar.

Your god's silence speaks loud and clear


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pnutz wrote: okkk

pnutz wrote:

okkk atheistssss...

 

Gollum?  Is that you?

 


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HC Grindon wrote: pnutz

HC Grindon wrote:
pnutz wrote:

okkk atheistssss...

 

Gollum?  Is that you?

 

 

ROFL 


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blah blah blah bah blah

blah blah blah bah blah

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