Atheism, choice or destiny?
Offline Here's a topic I was just thinking about. I've asked several gay people about how they discovered they were gay. Some say that they've always know, and some say that they tried being straight, but it never felt right. That's how I feel about Christianity. I was raised in a Christian home, but it never felt right to me. It just never made sense. I tried to be a Christian and watched as all my friends got baptized. I wanted to wait until I felt Jesus come into my heart because that's what you were supposed to do. But it never happened and I never could even pretend it happened. The whole thing just didn't seem right to me although I had no idea what to call it because I was indoctrinated from an early age. I stopped going to church my first year of college and after a while I discovered agnosticism and atheism. It took a while to shake off a lifetime of belief in god, but I was eventually able to think outside that paradigm. It wasn't a great turning point in my life, it's just something that happened.
Anyway, what do you think? I'm sure that many people have many stories about becoming an Atheist, but is it possible that some of us are born to reject theist beliefs?
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I'm not sure if we are born not to believe. My deconversion story is similiar to yours. I never really agreed with my christian upbringing, and I didn't take religion seriously after reaching the age of 14. I waited for the "inspiration of god", but it never came. Hell, I was an atheist long before I even knew the term "atheist". I think most of us really wanted to believe there was some magical force watching us. I think some of us are natural born doubters, we are natural born thinkers. But more importantly, and to answer your question, I think some people are just born with a resistance to brainwashing. And thats exactly how theists keep they're numbers high, they brainwash you young and make you feel guilty if you don't like it. Well, thats just my opinion.
Atheists agree: Adults should not have imaginary friends.
I'm not that familiar with the research, but apparently, there are substantial indications that people are born with a certain capacity for accepting cognitive dissonance. In more colloquial language, some people have better bullshit meters than others.
Even so, it's important to remember that genetic predispositions are just that -- predispositions. Studies with identical twins separated at birth clearly indicate that while genetic predisposition makes certain behavioral or temperamental patterns more likely, they by no means make them unavoidable.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I completely agree with you, and no, I don't have any research on the matter. I'm not sure if you're responding to me or evilsatan (as evilsatan questions if atheists are born as atheists), but I'm going to assume that it is me. I'm really just using personal experience on this subject. Do I think that everyone has the capacity to reject theistic beliefs, yes. Do I think some people are just more gullible than others, definitely. I did kind of word what I was saying more into the predisposition area, but thats not my point. I just think that some people will accept whats been told to them without thinking about it, or atleast thinking about it much. I think that it becomes harder to change someones mind or help them trust evidence that is contrary to their beliefs, especially if those beliefs are imposed on them at a very young age. I did not mean that it was necessarily genetic. Though, there are some of us who grow up in very similiar lifestyles and completely reject the concept of theistic deities. Thanks for letting me know how that sounded, and thanks for not reaming me without giving me a chance to explain myself.
Atheists agree: Adults should not have imaginary friends.
It's possible I guess, but I wouldn't limit it to that.
What you are seeing is the product of education. People are smarter today than they were 2000 years ago, and as generations go by more and more people will choose education and intelligence over mysticism and folk lore where there are obvious explanations.
I think as a society and a world we get smarter about more things and more issues, and as we work on developing our education systems, reducing illiteracy, we will continue to see a rise in atheism.
I believe all people are born atheists, and it's just a question of if as they are growing up the intellectual and critical thinking skills develop ahead of faith, or if faith ends up consuming and blocking a persons ability to develop the other traits effectivly.
At the end of the day, I think your situation was largely driven by accessibility to the information. A number of years ago you may not have ever know there was an alternative to choose.
According to neurologist V. S. Ramachandran, a lot of patients that have experienced temporal lobe seizures also experienced deeply religious feelings while having the seizure and after as well. These patients claim to now understand the real meaning of God. So there seems to be a connexion between some parts of our brain and the belief in God.
Could that suggest, kind of like Hambydammit said, that our brain is predisposed in believing in all kinds of weird concepts ? Why not... It's an interesting hypothesis.
So if some people are predisposed to believe, I don't see why the opposite wouldn't hold true as well.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=raT2PrTQqS0&feature=related
Si Dieu existe, c'est Son problème !
If God exists, it's His problem !--Graffiti on the walls of the Sorbonne (France), May 1968
romancedlife.blogspot.com
(Just for clarity, I'm responding generally to the whole topic.)
There has been a very clear link between temporal lobe seizures and "transcendental experiences." These experiences can be reproduced. In fact, Richard Dawkins recently underwent a procedure that triggers such experiences in some people. He was not affected.
NDE's (near death experiences) can also be caused by a chemical process, and are not dependent on being near death. Check out this essay for more details.
Based on what we know so far, it appears that the following statements are true:
1) Some people are born with a lower tolerance to cognitive dissonance. They tend to be very skeptical, and therefore tend towards atheism.
2) Some people are born with a higher degree of susceptibility to transcendental experiences like NDEs or REM intrusion.
3) People who have a higher tolerance of cognitive dissonance (gullible) and a high degree of susceptibility to transcendental experiences would probably be more likely to be devout theists, and the converse would also be true.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I've known many people who outwardly appeared to have very high cognitive dissonance, but were also highly religious. Admittedly, this could go down a lot to the culture of the country I live in where most people ... just don't care. They're paper theists (ie, don't even go to church on sundays or even christmas unless pursuaded by family).
Personally, especially through my childhood, I was a very gullible person yet I'm about the only person of those I knew at the time who questioned religion and broke from it. The rest just didn't care.
Joining religion I don't see as a choice, most are indoctrinated too early to have one. Leaving on the other hand, is. It's a choice of logic, facts and evidence over empty promises, empty threats, and empty hope. No matter what your personality type, if you don't care enough about it to question it you can continue on happily being a paper theist.
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
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There's a completely different dynamic that often works in cases like this. First, it's only been in the last few years that the general atheist population in America has had any sort of social outlets, like RRS. Also, it's only been in the last decade or so that the very real dangers from theism have become apparent enough to affect Joe Atheist in Oklahoma.
Many atheists keep their mouths shut because A) They realize theism is bullshit, but B) They don't think it's worth losing everyone around them, and C) They don't think theism is that harmful. They think of it as an eccentricity.
Oddly, I was very gullible as a child, too. Mostly, it came from the fact that it took me many years to realize that you can't trust adults any more than other children.
It also can't be overlooked that I believed that Jesus was magic, so anything that seemed impossible was actually possible. My family, of course, encouraged this kind of bad thinking, extending my period of gullibility considerably.
I agree on all counts. The point of the OP, I think, is that it is more difficult for some to be indoctrinated. I believe this is true. I know kids who go to church because they have to, but they clearly know it's bullshit. The hope is that they will see enough of the rest of the world to be brave enough to leave as soon as they get their drivers' license.
One of the most insidious parts of theism is that there's a function of the human brain that accepts repetition, even when it's known to be wrong. In other words, if someone says something enough times, we accept it, even if we knew at the beginning that it was wrong.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism