I would say they shouldn't, unless they made a perfectly secular version. Christmas could have a better case than Easter, though both are much older holidays than Christianity anyway.

christmas and easter should not be public holidays. it is a violation of church and state, not to mention a pretty disgusting display of greed and capitalism. watch a video of the 'next big toy' as the doors open on some poor walmart and then go watch videos of russian breadlines.

that said, im all for a day off. but: they should not be feigned around (they are by no means centered around) the particular items that they claim to be. the only people it is positive for are retailers, tho they have a pretty defensive base helping them make that fourth quarter turn. it may or may not be worth noting that i am a christian.

I've heard stories about secular christians. I just never thought that I would see a post from one.
Do you have a specific denomination, averyv?

In the U.S., the post offices and other government facilities are closed if christmas falls on a weekday.
The government employees receive 'holiday pay' as outlined by their specific office. The charter for these offices begins in a Congressional bill. The bill is signed into law and appropriations schedules are made. Yours and my tax dollars are then given to people to observe this 'holiday' with no work expected from them.

The first amendment reads:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Ergo, government holiday pay is unconstitutional.
This has been argued in both countries(US and Canada) several times with the same results. Twice with unanimously written opinions backing up the holiday pay in the US.

Bridenbaugh v. O'Bannon (1993)
According to the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, a government is permitted to give employees a religious holiday off as a paid vacation day, but only if the government can provide a legitimate secular purpose for choosing that day instead of any other day.

Metzl v. Leininger (1995)
Andrea Metzl, an Illinois public school teacher, filed a lawsuit to prevent the state of Illinois from (among other things) using of public funds derived from taxes that she paid to pay teachers for the Good Friday holiday.

Ganulin v. United States (1999)
Is it constitutional for the United States government to recognize Christmas as an official paid holiday? Richard Ganulin, an atheist lawyer, argued that it isn't and filed suit, but a U.S. District Court ruled against him.

Granzeier v. Middleton (1999)
With Circuit Judge Boggs writing the majority opinion, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed with the district court in all respects. First, the Court accepted that the courts had a valid secular purpose for closing on that day:

The Canada Labour Code provides for holidays with pay (s.192) in respect of the general holidays set out in the Code: New Year's Day, Good Friday, Victoria Day, Canada Day, Labour Day, Thanksgiving Day, Remembrance Day, Christmas Day and Boxing Day (s.166). In addition, the definition of general holiday includes any day substituted for any such holiday pursuant to section 195.

And I'm still reading this:
http://www.hrinfodesk.com/

i forgot to answer the question. i am most closely associated with the unitarian universalists, but am not one myself. ive never considered 'joining a group' to be an important part of 'religion' (quoted to avoid the demonized version of the word)

more or less this is how i look at it, yes. it was very recently that i found them, and im not totally sure about their particulars, tho i know that they have open discussion forums that are both riveting and very informative

from a social perspective it just isnt very smart to be telling large groups of people that they should be believing any particular something (including government). from a view of the 'human experience' deciding whereyou stand on religion (and government) is a very defining and worthwhile process. having a 'nation' stand behind a particular pov has a real tendency to skew where the validity of these things might actually be.

note that i think religion being a part of government is horribly detremental to both. as well as making distinction of roles nearly impossible. thereby allowing some really freakin crazy shit to happen.

for reasons indicated in the above statement, all individuals of any and no religion should want the same thing.

as a relevant but unrelated point, one thing that i picked up in church along the way(ironically through anecdote and not example) that has really stuck with me has been 'showing clean glasses'. i.e. i could go railing on your glass, or endlessly praising mine, or trying to switch out your water foryou, but youre a big boy. you can do it yourself. and anyway, arent we sitting here enjoying water? just drink your drink.

if you see something relatively clean in front of another, you should probably ask about it. in the other case, it might be wise to just let the person make realizations for themselves and move on. evangelism through pure action is much preferrable to a lot of babble and social strongarms.

and maybe my glass isnt as clean as i thought. like maybe those floaties i thought were flouride (which i incorrectly assumed to be good for me) are actually the waste of an extremely deadly virus. conception is a bitch.

and anyway maybe they just like it like that. how that is any of my business i will never understand.

this is in agreeance with your statement.

and a sentiment that that sentiment should be widely understood. desire for dominance in point of view is frighteningly pervasive in our present state

and i recognize that the christian church has no small part in this. jerks.

oh my yes. religion is private venture. end of question. be a corporation if you want to sell your stuff. the sad part of this is that everyone is looking to buy with no concept whatsoever the actual reasons to adhere to a philosophy. the whole scenario right now is just very unfortunate, and the culmination of so many factors that its making my head hurt to think about it.

i agree with this, but with context. ten commandments in the court room would be acceptable to me personally, assuming it were sitting next to something like the code of hamurabi and so on. however i agree that this becomes so complicated as to not be worth attempting. however, these do documents have historical relavance in our progression. this is NOT to say that mer'ca was founded on christianity. it was NOT. this is BIG pet pieve of mine. it just wasnt. you know this. but, then, it was an influential part of history and, the commandments in particular relative to legal precidence. (anonymous overarching bodies holding rules over peoples heads hasnt gone away since)

as a humorous side note, check out this article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4310273.stm

and scroll down to the part about ten commandments statues being made to promote a movie. a charlton heston movie no less. uggh. what a way to treat a document you claim as sacred, huh?

as far as public schools go, if youre learning a lesson on something that would make a posting of the ten commandments relavent,then they can go up or whatever. but it should be strictly in a historical sense. public school f##s everything up. i do NOT want them anywhere near the beliefs of my hypothetical children

so, i hope that answered some questions. i think that (perhaps arrogantly), in general, my thoughts are in accordance with this sites philosophy. freethinking is very valuable to me. jesus would agree, tho im positive the pope does not.

i also came up with my denomination! we are christian pre-eventuexisterminists. of course you could just be a pre-eventuexisterminist, but you would be damming yourself straight to hell.

just kidding. anyway, hit me with a response s'il vous plait. i dont find reasonable conversation on either side of this issue very often.

i simply agree with the vast majority of your post, but i have a few points/questions id like to bring up

i agree with this statement, though given what you say i would be much less inclined to argue the historical value of the ten commandments than their historical place. i would agree that to favor the historical value in discussion would have potential to discount the value of the individuals who considered them, tho consideration could not have occured without existence.

and again, youre right, its just too complicated to bother with. why have such a wasteful, devisive, and destructive discussion over something like 'value'? i would be more than happy to compare with and discuss and speak openly about it, but holding an emotionally charged symbol between us while it happens is not going to foster healthy conversation, community, or mutual understanding no matter what our actual opinions are.

aye. and so it is with many modern issues. often the problems (e.g. gay marraige) are actually causing themselves. if the people would just take control of marraige (i.e. force the government to relenquish their control of it) any church could choose who they wanted to marry. don't want to marry a gay couple? while im sure they are very sorry not to use your services. im also sure they can manage elsewhere or not at all if there are no social-wide institutions holding a norm in place.

christian pre-eventuexisterminist symbols are (typically) personally defined and often based on life events. so, while there are certain symbols which are meaningful to me, they would typically not be recognizable by others, both to avoid the issue of the echo chamber and to encourage the sentiment of in-lak'ech (i am another you) by realization of the unity of difference and sameness.

i think that everyone does, and is as well off to as not, hold symbols of their own. problems occur when 'i' start to think 'you' should have 'mine' too.

institutional symbols, however, will make your typical pre-eventuexisterminialist's stomach turn. one proposed right of passage, in fact, is self-inducing vomit on the established institution of your choosing. typically we're not much for ceremonies, but some ideas are too fun to pass up.

i can understand your frustration. i just plain dont like the education system these days. it just sucks, and i wish there were some swooping action we could take to set those bastards straight. from the state of factory-town and urban schools to the budget to the general treatment of what is 'education' to the 'curriculum', standardized testing, the organization...to a question of "should we teach 'intelligent design' or evolution" ...like those two things are even relatable, mutually exclusive, or remotely belonging to the same feild or discussion. in my opinion, it is not even an institution worth talking about.

christian pre-eventuexisterminists also have a marked aversion to standardized truth. truth with a trademark tag cannot be found.

pre-eventuexisterminists note this as an aspect of meta-determinism and cite it as validation for going on endlessly

yes most definitely. and i would think that this sentiment would not be limited to christians (tho most certainly an amazing chorus of persecuted whining would make itself known with a quickness). everyone likes a day off, and nobody wants to give up extra pay.

what would you say if i suggested that it were actually reasonable to give some sort of yearly bonus? for employees meeting x and y, having worked all year and whatnot, a one-time lump-sum extra added goodness is a worthwhile venture that, in my opinion, would not be simulated when spread over a year.

a garunteed day off is also reasonable, i believe. tho granted not necessarily on some specific day or with everyone or something, but just like...a free day or two for each individual a few individuals at a time throughout the month. or even all at once, just as it is now. i have no specific problem with shutting down for a day, and the benefits of family and social rest are certainly felt outside the realm of religion.

i personally think that these aspects of the holiday are not the harmful ones

perhaps the timing would need to be changed? the espoused reason, certainly. but: how much of the actual process must be different to achieve the desired change? i think that setting this boundary first will help to range our options and satisfy as many (apparently conflicting) constraints as possible.

if you will indulge me for a moment, as im sure this point holds much less meaning to you than i, i dont believe we celebrate something that should reasonably hold the moniker 'christmas' right now anyway. in fact, i find it to be a mockery of christianity, as it directly opposes several basic tenants of the philosophy. it, instead, seems to me to be a corporate/capitalist holiday parading alongside religiosity (and with quite an armament line, lest we forget), its goal and purpose, seemingly, to unify yearly economic upturn alongside, currently, the extra-added benefit of creating deviding lines where none actually exist.

however this is a point that, i feel, we can use to our mutual favor. if we are able to point to a direct social 'reason for the season' which is actually subverting whatever cause you might personally hold, it may be possible to shift the discussion away from a place where the typical 'fundie' would feel universally entitled to the Right.

then again, maybe not at all. what do you think?

That's not really conducive to getting tax dollars back into the public's pockets though.
I've got a dim view upon incentive pay even though I get a good portion of it from my job. It doesn't seem to make me work harder in the future. It seems only to make me proud of past accomplishments. Rewarding someone for doing their job happens on pay day. lol.

Vacation time is much different from holiday. I see no problem with vacations for government workers. However, people can take vacations without hindering the government operations. Most companies do this by having a 'pecking order' established by seniority or priority. I see no reason not to imitate that since it has proven effective. Personal days would need to be regulated. Two a year would be extremely nice. I have used one in three years at my present job.

Agreed. But they are a part of the reward for following the tradition. Perhaps eliminating the exclusive 'holidays' would be the primary place to start. christmas and easter. Hanukkah and passover. Ramadahn. etc.
Labor Day is o.k. in my opinion because everyone works in some way.

Even as a christian child, I felt like this.

I feel as though the season needs to be demonized in the minds of the populace in the aspect you previously spoke of. The equating spirituality with commercialization. In other words, if there is no 'true' reason for the season then there should be no season.

LOL.
There are no open documents for discussion concerning any holiday.

Sorry, Fear. I meant that there weren't any open documents for discussion on the government site that avery posted.

Festivus is already celebrated by me. lol. It's when I come to work and complain about all of the other people in the world not working.

I think I'm only doing the pagan versions now...

also god hates bunnies