Life of Pi
Offline In my English 102 Class we are currently discussing the novel Life of Pi by Yann Martel. My teacher chose this novel because she believes it exemplifies storytelling. I do not disagree. However it is a book that brings up the questions of how do individuals interpret reality. And more specifically it narrows it down too, Science as an interpretation, the facts based on our senses, or Religion/God as an interpretation, "truth beyond fact" as my teacher likes to say. The first part of the book has a lot to do with Religion/Atheism and the point of this thread was to get some thoughts on this paragraph in the novel.
"He became my favourite teacher at Petit Seminaire and the reason I studied Zoology at the University of Toronto. I felt a kinship with him. It was my first clue that Atheists are my brothers and sisters of a different faith, and every word they speak speaks of faith. Like me, they go as far as the legs of reason will carry them--and then they leap." (pg. 31)
We touched on this topic in class, and I asked what kind of leap Atheists take, my teacher's response was the leap to not believe. I then asked if we all take a leap to not believe in Unicorns, she said that we do. I have a problem with the words "faith" and "leap" in the above quote, and am going to bring this passage up again, to further discuss it in class. So basically I would just like to hear what you guys think. Maybe some of you can take a shot at this whole "How you interpret Reality" statement. It would be very much appreciated.
Thanks,
22
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English 102 has become Philosophy? = first problem
I would have re-written the passage thusly: "Like me, they go as far as the legs of reason will carry them--and then they look for the next step inquisitively."
"the leap not to believe" Why should I leap? Am I in a hurry to get to the end or should I stroll to my destination savoring all of the journey? After all, there could be another path much safer than the one everyone else has travelled, but not looked for. (metaphors should be exploited for their fallacies in my opinion. The very best ones cannot be.)
Reality has a definition. One would expect an english teacher to understand the proper way to read a dictionary. While it is open, check the definition for evidence for her.
My AP English teacher forced us to watch 'Twin Peaks: Fire walk with me' as an on-going assignment. During one particularly ridiculous classroom examination of the soap opera, I stood up and formally requested to be placed in remedial english where I would receive a much better education. It was the last time that television show was discussed in class.
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Next time, phrase the question in such a way that you know for certain she will not know what you're talking about. Surely, she won't believe in this thing(how could she, if she doesn't know what it is). Ask her then, is she making a leap in not believing in the thing she's never heard of?
Life of Pi, as in the mathematical constant Pi?
It bugs me how people treat Pi as some mystical thing. Pi is an interesting and useful number, but there's nothing mystical about it. I think people heard from their algebra teacher that it is an irrational (and transcendental) number not knowing these terms were being used differently than normal.
Let me tell you what. There are some really mind blowing things in math, and Pi isn't among them, IMHO.
I agree with MrRage, there's nothing particularly interesting about pi mathematically. After all, there are more irrational (or transcendental) numbers than rational (or algebraic).
On the other hand, pi is the first known transcendental number which makes it an interesting subject in the history of math.
Also, pi has taken on a special place in the popular imagination as a symbol of how counterintuitive and arcane math can be (which I find ironic since pi is downright easy compared to anything mathematicians actually think about - pi:ring theory::dirt:geology), which makes it interesting sociologically as well.
No. Pi is the protagonist's nickname.
Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.
Have you read the book Smith?
Hm....in my opinion, leaps of faith are only taken when one is making a positive claim.
I read the back cover and flipped through it a bit, but I've never read it. I think I did actually flip across the quote you mentioned, which is part of the reason I didn't bother to read it. (Not that I read much fiction these days anyway.)
Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.
I read the book a couple of years ago and enjoyed it very much. I am not sure I would have chosen that particular quote from the book to question the interpretation of reality. The paragraph you chose seems to me to exemplify human nature to belong. As in, ‘validation of self-worth by inclusion in a group’ behavior – check with a psychology professor on that one. The book itself is a question in how to interpret reality as Pi asks at the end “Yes, but which story did you like better?” Interpreting reality is not the same as defining it. In relation to your specific issue with faith and leaps, interpreting reality involves looking at the world and/or situation, evaluating information and arriving at a conclusion…this process is the same for theists and atheists alike. The “leap” comes into play when faced with the unexplainable. Theists look to religion for answers. Atheists look elsewhere. Theists believe that the unexplained is the work of their god that they, as humans, are not capable of understanding...yet. Atheists believe that the unexplained is uncharted knowledge that they are not capable of understanding…yet. Not really much of a difference is it? The “leap” is simply accepting that we are incapable of knowing everything regardless of religious affiliation and working within the confines of the limited information we have been provided. Theists and atheist both search for answers which is good. Excellent question, by the way!
Thanks for your response jce. I have a few questions for you as a result of your comment. What kind of leap does an Atheist take? What is the Atheist leaping from, and where is he/she leaping too? I personally would have to disagree with you when you say, "Theists look to religion for answers. Atheists look elsewhere." I think an honest Atheist would have looked/is looking for answers everywhere. I would again have to disagree with you when you ask, "Not much of a difference is it?" I think there is a huge difference there, which is of course God. Theists claim to have to answers to the major questions of where we came from, why we're here, and where we're going. They of course have no evidence outside of their holy texts for these beliefs, and that is where faith enters. This to me is a leap. This comes back to my original question of where is an atheist leaping from, and where is the atheist leaping too? I don’t think it is a leap to admit that you don’t have the answers.
p.s. Most Theists have found their "answers" and have stopped searching.22jesus22 - I agree with your statement that a true atheist looks everywhere for answers. My point was really just the difference between theists and atheists but my answer may have been a bit too simplistic. As far as the difference being not much, I stand by my statement. Atheists and theists are only one god off. The act of turning one direction or another is not huge.I do not agree with your postscript regarding theists having found the answer and therefore have stopped searching. Religious leaders and theologans continue to search for answers and make adjustments to dogma based on new information (Vatican II is a case in point). The simple act of going to church weekly would also support a theists desire to continue to search for answers. The problem is that they keep looking in the same place.Admitting that we don't know is a huge leap for many and there is no security blanket for atheists as there is for theists that say it is god's will. There is a vitual abyss of knowledge we do not posses and admitting that does take strength. Admission of error also takes great strength as many former theists discovered. Neither side is necessarily wrong, but an atheists cannot and will not accept the answer that an unseen, unproven, mythical being "did it".
Hey jce, thanks for another response. I would just like to comment on your disagreement with my postscript. I think I understand where you're coming from on the rest of your post.
I won't argue that Religious Leaders and Theologians are still looking for answers, however regarding an average Theist I think they've stopped. Going to church every Sunday to me doesn't support a Theists desire to find answers. It's that they've found their "answer" and just want to make sure they are a part of the positive instead of negative answer to the question of where are we going...i.e. Heaven or Hell. I don't want to generalize theists because I know many who are spiritually searching for the truth, which I can respect, but when considering and average theists, and again this is just my opinion, I think they've found like you said their security blanket, their “answers” and have just stopped looking."how to interprete reality" is a mindfucking question that misses the point just like the zen question "how to clap with a single hand".
Clapping with a single hand is easy by the way, as long as the definition of clapping does not include 2 hands, but that would reduce the question to a paradoxon.
My point is there is just no ways how to interprete reality because reality is not a matter of interpretation but a matter of sensing.
Our senses and neuronal networks spawned out of reality. Sensing and understanding the reality you exist in is an advantage and control over whatever can not do that.
22jesus22 - good point! I have witnessed first hand what happens during sunday school, bible study groups and weekly services and there is a lot of head nodding from the sheep but few questions. They do appear to be looking for validation instead of information.
I also agree with ollj's response on interpreting reality. That subject is out of my league and I think the last time I discussed it I was probably under the influence of...medication - lol
Thanks for responding and I do hope you enjoy Life of Pi. Keep me posted on any other interesting reads you find!