Freethinkers' Response to End of the World
Offline Hi,
I don't get to post much here, because, unfortunately, I spend too much time online as it is, and need to focus on some real-life stuff, but I popped in because of something that I've been wanting to ask for a long time. Last night's Glenn Beck on "End of Times?" has it on my mind again, even though I didn't really watch the show...I had to take a shower. 
I was raised to believe in the Bible and Christianity, but in my late teens, I became agnostic. I tend to defend the atheist and freethinking side more, because I feel Christians bully their views, as a whole. But when I was a child, people around me sometimes would talk about religion, and would bring up stuff that really scared me about the end of the world. I have obsessive compulsive disorder and panic disorder, which may be why I sometimes wonder, What if I'm wrong, and just, What if? Nevertheless, I start remembering why I have doubts about religion and the Bible, such as biblical errancy, and that makes me stronger in feeling no religion is "The One True Religion" and even question the existence of God. But I'm mentioning my disorders, to explain why I might be more vulnerable to the fears some religious people use to convert people.
Despite the many things I've read by freethinkers, I haven't read much on your views and arguments as to why you don't believe (assuming you don't) in biblical prophecies, especially those about the end of the world. The talk around me when I was a kid created a deep-seated fear, and possibly even triggered my panic disorder. I'd really appreciate views from atheists and other freethinkers on why the "signs" are misinterpreted. Did people in past centuries also see these same signs and believe The End was near? Are there more signs seen now than previously? Admittedly, this is mostly to comfort my own fears, but also to provide me with arguments when I get into discussions with Christians. Thank you.
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Well admittedly I haven't read the entire bible, and am not fluent in the end of the world part of it. But I've read enough books and watched enough movies that skimmed the idea to say that most of us reject it out of hand as even more preposterous than the rest of the religion. The end of humanity is indeed a possible scenario(with literally thousands of different things that could achieve it); but it's certainly not going to be heralded by raining frogs and rivers of blood. It'll be an asteroid that someone noticed 20 years too late to do anything about. Or something more or less dramatic. The beauty of the whole thing is that we today may live to see the human race achieve independance of earth, which would pretty well nulify all "end of humanity" possibilities. There are no locusts in space.
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Ok, this is just off the top of my head from what I can remember, so anyone more knowlegdeable than me, please correct me. If I can remember right, the Revelations section of the bible was written in the middle of the 1st century CE during the reign of Nero. It was a really dark time for christians, jesus was dead and the romans were out to squash this religious rebellion. I think the beast in Revelations is based off of Nero. In fact, a lot of bad things going on in this chapter mirrored what the christians were going through at the time. If an early christian read this work, they'd think the end of the world was near. (Which to a christian is a good thing, since they think thats when jesus will magically come and save them) But it's been 2,000 years and we're still waiting for him to magically pop out of the clouds. But if you look at it, there have always been a group of christians saying "the end is near! the end is near!" ever since jesus died. People though the world was going to end in the year 666. (they had good reason to think so too, it was the start of the dark ages) But when nothing happend, they moved the date of the end of the world to the year 1000. Again, nothing happend. The date keeps jumping up of when people think the world is going to end. Its ridiculous. Hell, back when I was a theist I though the world was going to end on the year 2000. But the stuff in revelations has been interpreted a million different times a million different ways. You can fit it to just about whatever is going on in the world at the time and claim that the end is near. But don't worry, the world is not going to end by divine retribution. Just remember this: everything ever said about god has been said by man. The bible was written by human beings claiming to be writing what god told them and only them to write. They ask you to just "trust" them that they know what god wants, with no proof whatsoever. The only way the world will end is if we as a species kill our selves off in some conflict. Given every religions' incompatibility with every other religion, combined with the advent of thermonuclear weapons, this is something you should worry about, not some imaginary sky god who has no more proof of his existence than unicorns.
When the bible was written, it's was intended as a catalogue of history. This may come as a shock to alot of people since the bible's timeline ends just under 2000 years ago and then cuts straight to armageddon. This is because when christianity was established, it was believed that the world was going to end in the very near forseeable future. 2000 years later, we all seem to still be existing.
When a cult says that the world is going to end at midnight on december 31st in the year 2005, we don't give them a margin of error that extendeds beyond a minute. As soon as that clock striked 12:01 am, we tell they were wrong and laugh at them. Christianity has been saying "any day now" in regards to armageddon for centuries. After all this time, I'd think it's pretty safe to say it's not going to happen.
Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine
I used to have a great deal of armageddon fears myself. Truth be told, a lot of the stuff in the bible that's supposed to herald the apocalypse is happening now, but it's also happened before. I used to be scared by History Channel programs discussing Nostradamus and biblical prophecies about the end of the world, etc., but when it comes down to it all they do it play scary music and trump up the whole thing.
If "the world ends", it won't be the way any of these things say. It'll be either a nuclear fallout, which in all honesty probably wouldn't destroy the whole world-crazy or not, most world leaders have too strong of self-preservation instincts to completely destroy the planet. The threat of global warming slowly deteriorating the habitiablity of the world is a possible destroyer, but if that happens it won't be for a long while. Now, there are a vast number of natural disasters that could destroy a good portion of the planet any second-and there's the threat of ateroids, etc., but in all likelihood none of it's going to happen, and if it does it won't be for a good long time.
There's something that all "end of the world" prophecies have in common, from the very dawn of civilization they've been made with ONE common factor that spans all of them: not one of them has come to pass. I think it was a couple hundred years ago that an influential Christian of some sort was absolutely CERTAIN the rapture was coming on a specific day, and had people go along with him. His followers sold their possessions, left their homes, and basically abandoned life and all went up on a hill with him to await the Rapture. Of course, it didn't happen, and they were left feeling rather dumb indeed. Or likely thinking it was just going to happen the next day, or the next, etc. Not sure about the specifics of this, but I heard it somewhere.
My point is, we don't have much to worry about. If an extinction level event occurs, we won't know about it until we're already dead-so we won't care. The biblical apocalypse isn't coming, or at least the chances are excrutiatingly low.
Humanity needs compassion and knowledge-an end to bigotry and undue ignorance. Religion stands in the way of these and my other ideals so strongly that I can't think of a stance apart from atheism that will allow me to feel like a decent human being.
Thank you. I've heard prophecies, not just by Christians, but it's basically the same type of thing. There's a Native American calendar, as I recall (I forget what tribe) that supposedly predicts the end of the world as being in 2012, but I assume that's the same type of thing: It depends on different interpretations. I really hate the atmosphere of fear, anger, hate and judgement that religion often calls "love."
I've heard that too, and of course there was the massive fear that it was ending in 2000, then 2001 because that's the "real millenium," which, though I haven't checked this, I'll bet was by the same people simply because their former hypothesis (I won't give it the honor of calling it a theory-a theory has to have at least SOME evidence) failed.
There's also a prophecy, I think it may have been by Nostradamus, that the current Pope is the last Pope, and upon his death Armageddon shall begin. Makes you wonder why the Vatican elected such an old Pope. I'm not sure on this, but isn't the new one close to the age the old one was when he died?
Either way, that's a pretty selfish theory-that the fate of all the world hinges on the Catholic church. When you look at it that way, it suddenly becomes less frightening-because you think about how absurd it is that their apocalypse theory should trump all-as Christianity as a whole, counting Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. makes up only 33% of the world population. That is technically more than any other religion alone, but it's still only a third of the world. What kind of god is going to screw over the other 2/3? According to the website I'm getting this from, there are 2.1 billion Christians on Earth, 1.3 Billion Muslims, and 1.1 Billion Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheists (we unfortunately all get lumped in-this counts non-religious belief in a god). But still, I think my point is well articulated.
Judaism/Christianity/Islam would not be around today if not for the atmosphere of fear, anger, hate, and judgement they create. Too many people are just plain scared to even consider the idea that their religion is wrong, so they don't consider it.
Humanity needs compassion and knowledge-an end to bigotry and undue ignorance. Religion stands in the way of these and my other ideals so strongly that I can't think of a stance apart from atheism that will allow me to feel like a decent human being.
I don't have the link, but I recall reading somewhere that the Jehovah's Witnesses always have a set date for the apocalypse, but it's been pushed forward dozens of times because nothing happened. Anyone read about this?
From Wikipedia.
I guess someone has been hitting the snooze button on the apocalypse alarm clock.
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For people who are totally insecure about life in general and afraid of change, their own death seems like the end of the world. At least that's my take on why the end has been nigh for well over 300 years.
-Triften
Thanks again, all, and thanks, Susan, for posting that. It's really amusing! I also heard some prediction that the pope after the current one is going to be the last pope, and Armageddon starts at some point around then, or after he dies, or something like that. That might also have to do with the predicted date 2012.
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I'm personally most curious about what all the nostradamus and bible people(the ancient people are dead, and they'd probably just say you start the calendar over again anyway) are going to say once 2012 comes and goes. I've been hearing that date for the last twenty odd years as the end of our species. Only 5 more years to go.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I did some digging into the endtimes prophesies recently after I found out my mother was teaching them to her bible study classes. I found a number of lines that actually really pinned down when the writers of the bible thought the end of the world was coming.
I've got it compiled in a letter to my parents on this blog.
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Excellent! I was about to hunt for those bits of scripture where Jesus tells his followers that:
Matthew16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Matthew 23:36 "Verily I say unto you, all these things shall come upon this generation."
Those passages alone sort of shoot down the "end is near" scenario.
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That's a great letter!