Breaking free...
Offline Hello. This is my first post. I just found this website tonight trying to find people who are in the same place as me. I'm not usually the type to post personal feelings online, but in this case, I have no one to turn to in my life to discuss things like this. Well, not without having hands laid upon me to thwart the attack of demons.
I grew up in a Christian family and attended church most of my life. (I'm 25 now.) In my adult life I have helped out with VBS twice and even went on a couple mission trips. I feel so guilty now that I actually helped spread this delusion that imprisons innocent young minds. Even though I questioned things for years, I kept on living my life as usual, going to church and praying, just to be safe. (The whole eternal damnation thing is a pretty strong tactic.)
I finally quit going to church last December, but just quit praying last week. Isn't it sad that I continued praying for so long even though I didn't even believe in it? Brainwashing at work, folks. I am angry at the brainwashing and indoctrination that I have had, and am trying very hard to break free from all of my old thoughts. I wish there was some magical way to just erase all of the conditioning I've been given since I was a child, but there isn't. It's going to take time and effort. How do you unlearn being judgmental of people when you were taught what was "Christian" from the time you were in diapers?
It's been overwhelming trying to break free. Society is so religion focused that it is scary. My mom used the story of Jonah yesterday telling me to pray for where God wants me to work at -- I'm looking for a job. Jonah people! I can't even believe that in the year 2007 we are using a hocus pocus story about a man who supposedly survived in the belly of a whale for three days.
I'm glad that I found this site, and I am starting to see the light, so to speak. But now, I not only want to completely free myself, but want to get involved and help free other people from the delusion of religion.
I've not bought any books on the topic yet. Are the Dawkins books a good place to start? I certainly know it's not going to be an easy path. I live in the Bible Belt where everyone and their dog is a Christian.
If you want to make a little money, write a book. If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion.
L. Ron Hubbard
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Welcome, I think a lot of us at this site have grown up christian. I did.
I can't really speak about the books, but Brian Flemming's 'The God Who Wasn't There' is an extremely good film. Very interesting. As for your bible belt city....RUUUUUUN!
You could just order the books i.e. Amazon.com and such. You can buy The God Who Wasn't There directly from their site.
www.thegodmovie.com/index.php
Their same-day shipping is a lie though:P I ordered it on Sunday and it came on Thursday...
Again, welcome to the forums and thank you for sharing your personal feelings I know it's not the easiest thing to do.
"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a man a religion, and he'll starve to death praying for fish." - Anonymous
"If God doesn't like the way I live, let him tell me, not you." -Anonymous
Hi lier
I can't even begin to comprehend what it's like for you. I was fortunate enough to have an atheist for a father. My mum's catholic but very quiet about it, her faith is something that doesn't need to be shoved in everyone's face. I guess my dad is quiet about the subject too. God was pretty much a non-issue in my home. Even the country I live in (Australia) is fairly secular in it's lifestyle. I grew up knowing about christianity but was never told to believe one way or the other, I may have believed back when I believed in santa claus but I don't really remember.
I'd really like you to tell us more about how you began to realise your religion wasn't right. Having spoken to many devout christians I've seen some very strong mental blocks to even considering the possibilty that one small part of their faith could be incorrect. How did you start to overcome those blocks?
As for books, you really don't need to read any to understand atheism. If you've figuired out that the mythology doesn't add up you really don't need someone else explaining it to you. Technically atheists only agree on one thing - we don't believe in god. Everything else is up to you.
If your religion had included creationism (I'm not making any assumptions here) definitely find some good books on evolution, and maybe some related sciences. A lot of christians have their understanding of science completely messed up by creationism.
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
First of all, congratulations; I hope that at some point you will have the courage to explain your position to your less astute peers.
Oddly enough, ne of the first things that I tried to change after realizing that religions were poppycock was speech habits. To try and stop using 'god' or 'holy' in everyday conversation, especially swearing!
As for books, my personal recommendation is Sam Harris's 'The End of Faith'; but I am sure other people have their personal favorites.
WWTFSMDFAKB?
Many here do understand what you have been through. And the transition, dispite popular myth, is not "I had a bad experiance" that suddent makes us give it up, it is usually a long process of questiong. And it is hard to give up old habits.
I didnt go from Christianity |"Poof" to "Atheism" suddenly. I was asked a question about Jesus at work one day. The guy asked me, "What if Jesus was just a man". That was the exact moment that got the ball rolling and the questions opened up in my head. It did take a few more years to completely give up on the Jesus myth and deity belief all together.
Dont feel guilty. You did not know better at the time. Just use the rest of your life demonstrating that you can live a decent life without superstition.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Books,
Atheism, The Case Against God...George Smith
Letter To A Christian Nation, Sam Harris
God Is Not Great, Cristopher Hitchens
Atheist Universe, David Mills
Websites.
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
www.richarddawkins.net
www.thedebatehour.com
www.atheistforums.com
www.hillbillyatheist.com(YEA, A REDNECK ATHEIST) I know him personally. Really nice guy too.
www.atheistsunited.org
www.atheists.org(American Atheists)
www.au.org(Americans United For The Seperation of Church and State) Multi faith organization.
www.ffrf.org (Freedom From Religion Foundation)
www.maaf.info (Millitary Association of Atheists and Freethinkers)
And "Freethought Society of Greater Philidelphia"
www.fsgp.org
A great source for famous atheist quotes is the following.
"Positive Atheism" www.positiveatheism.org
These communities all strive for the rights of citizens to be free from goverment coirsion and favoritism of one religion over another. The atheist sites also educate the public on legal issues and many take records of bigotry aimed at non-believers.
This list of reasorces will help you get involved more.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Science was one thing that made me start asking questions. A few years ago I became interested in science and trying to better understand evolution and creationism. One thing in particular that sparked my interest was the age of the earth in comparisson to the rest of the universe. I bought a book named "Faith, Form, and Time" that discussed this very issue. When I learned that the best science that Christianity could come up with is that God created the universe with light already in motion, I called BS. So, the earth actually WAS created first, and then everything else was created with the light in motion, just so that it appeared there was a massive already existing universe surround it.
I began speaking with friends and familiy about this, and of course the response was, "God is great -- he can do things we can't even fathom -- don't question God." (Insert Biblical verse about gnashing of teeth and lake of fire.)
Another proponent that played a part in my questioning was the superstition factor. My family will talk down about other people's faiths because of superstitous beliefs they have. But we were no different. I just can't believe that in the year 2007, we still hold onto these beliefs even though science can prove them wrong.
The final thing that pissed me off was belief in Satan. Everything bad that happens is caused by evil Satan. Or, if it wasn't Satan, then it was God's will. If two people are in a car accident and one dies, it was God's will that the one come home to be with their creator and the other continue living??? Perhaps they just were driving in the rain, lost traction, and hit another vehicle! If my sister gets drunk and has a fight with her husband, it's just Satan. He is trying to stir problems up again. (Both of these are real life examples I've dealt with in the last two months.) This belief in Satan is one of the most perplexing things in my life.
If you want to make a little money, write a book. If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion.
L. Ron Hubbard
I agree with you that it is perplexing how people use it's god will and it's satan causing trouble statements to avoid dealing with the actual issues at hand. I have met many people who invoke this statement to avoid dealing with the fact that there is an actual problem, such as alcoholism, mental or physical abuse issues, or that just bad/good things actually do occur to good/bad people
I can understand the idea of invoking god's will when i child dies in the form of comfort, as the death of a child is usually tramatic to the parents (I don't think i could handle it well at all if my child would to die) and the idea that the child is still "alive" with god is source of comfort for many. However I have seen that it was caused by Satan as well if a child died by a violent means or if a pedophile was involved in the abuse. Instead of stating that it was the pediophiles fault, they state it was satan so that they don't have to deal with the issue of the child molestor and instead blame it on Satan. Which to me makes no sense at all, personally I know how i would react to a child molestor and it would not involved accusing god or satan....however he/she might meet their maker that day.
As such, those statements for me are out of context, used by a society that does not wish to deal with the reality of the fact that a bad thing occured to someone they love or to some one considered good. Even evil people get off with the statement that it's because of Satan, they were tricked by Satan. As of recently a wife stated that it was Satan that caused her Husband to put their infant daughter in the microwave and burn the child (the child survived), because the man wanted to become a pastor. It couldn't have been the husbands fault or the fact that the husband might have some mental issues that he has to deal with, or can't handle the pressures of becoming a pastor and raising a child, nope it had to be Satan. Stuff like this makes me laugh at the amount of ignorance when those statements are made.
Welcome to the hizzle!
Just one thing to add to what others have said here.
You mentioned that thinking about the brainwashing and indoctination is making you angry. This is a good thing; anger is a great mobilizer of personal motivaton. It gives you the energy you need to make the change.
You may also continue to be angry for some time after feeling like you've left your religion behind. That anger is important too, to keep you going while you figure things out again.. Most people mellow out after awhile when they don't need the anger anymore.
"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert
There are many here on this website who have been where you are now (raises hand). It will take time to shed all of the excess guilt, baggage and superstition that has been indoctrinated into you. It's been many years since I was a believer and I find that the christian mindset/superstition still creeps in occasionally. The indoctrination will dissipate over time and will hopefully be replaced w/ illumination and wonder at the world in which we live in. This only happens through education. I'm glad you realize this already and so I've thrown in a list of books:
- The journey of Man- Spencer Wells PhD at Stanford uncovers the DNA trail that originated in Africa. 50,000 + yrs. ago tribesmen in Africa began to populate the planet in earnest and left the continent spreading into the rest of the world. There is a DVD on this also. You can get it thru Netflix.
- The Demon Haunted World - Carl Sagan (Anything by Sagan really.
- The End of Faith- Sam Harris
- The God Delusion- Richard Dawkins
- God is not Great- Christopher Hitchens
- Atheist Universe- David Mills (I have not read this book yet, but he occasionally shows up on this site).
- The Selfish Gene- Richard Dawkins (Voted by Discover Magazine as the 7th ? greatest science book of all time).
- Why people believe Wierd Things- Michael Shermer (Numerous other books by this author also.
- Flim Flam-The truth about unicorns, parapsychology and other delusions.....Also The Faith Healers- both by James Randi
- Breaking The Spell-Daniel Dennett
- Darwin's Dangerous Idea- Daniel Dennett
There is also much to read on this site.
Rook has some great stuff on
Biblical Errancy and
The Jesus Mythicist Campaign
There are some great essays on this site also, several of which are written by Todangst and DeludedGod for starters.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
Thanks for all of the responses.
I look forward to reading some books and getting insight on changing my mindset, and learning more about the science I've been sheltered from all of my life.
One of the hard parts is that I work for a Christian owned company and a lot of the work I do, web development, is for churches. I can't speak my mind around anyone I know. I have to shut up and pretend like I agree with what everyone else believes. I also have to feel the guilt in knowing that I'm making money in part from the very thing I want to get away from.
It's awesome that there is such a great community of athiests online to network with. It's funny to think that unbelief is a commonality that brings people together.
If you want to make a little money, write a book. If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion.
L. Ron Hubbard
Welcome Lier!
Hopefully the rest of your journey will be a bit smoother. You've gotten past a lot of the really hard parts.
Getting through the day working on xian websites might drive you to drink, though!
At least you can come to the forums in the evenings for a good dose of rationality.
Thanks for you story and we're really glad you're here.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
I think Iruka would be a good person to talk to. She's had similar experiences.
Welcome to the site.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Lier, I can't say I can relate in terms of your upbringing, but I most certainly wish you the best of luck with you new way of thinking. You've opened the door up for a more fulfilling life devoid of fear of eternal punishment.